Anthem and the Golden One


DallasCowboys

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I just finished reading anthem and I will say it was a great book but I must say the role of the Golden One confused me. Ayn Rands philosophy centers on individualism and the Golden One can't be any further from that. They are completely submissive to Equality 7521. Here are a couple examples-

1. When meeting Equality 7521 The Golden One agrees to do anything the Equality asks of them.

Even if they had the highest respect for the Equality they shouldn't blindly follow them.

2. Equality 7521 doesn't even let the Golden One choose their own name.

Isn't your name the best example of individualism and they don't even choose their own.

Let me know what you guys/gals think

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Ayn Rands philosophy centers on individualism and the Golden One can't be any further from that.

Think of the context. The Golden One grew up in an environment of total submission to the authorities, the World Council. People who show signs of individualism are burned at the stake. Falling in love with Equality 7521 and choosing to follow him was a once in a century deviation in her world, punishable by death. She was brave beyond description.

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Ayn Rands philosophy centers on individualism and the Golden One can't be any further from that.

Think of the context. The Golden One grew up in an environment of total submission to the authorities, the World Council. People who show signs of individualism are burned at the stake. Falling in love with Equality 7521 and choosing to follow him was a once in a century deviation in her world, punishable by death. She was brave beyond description.

Thank you for the response. My problem with your answer is you didn't entirely address my question. I am not arguing whether or not the Golden One was brave for leaving the World Council but that doesn't mean she isn't submissive to Equality 7521. Just because she left a submissive world doesn't mean she hasn't joined another.

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Go get yourself woman and find out who's really submissive to whom.

--Brant

I am not sure but I am assuming this is supposed to be a joke, if so then it is a funny stereotype. If it is serious then I disagree because I have been in my share of relationships and it really depends on the situation with regard to who is submissive to whom. On a side note this doesn't really address my question. :)

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It's been a while since I read the book, but as I recall, the two gave each other names. He called her The Golden One, she called him The Unconquered. I thought of it as something like terms of endearment, pet names like "sweetheart" and "honey" but with a great deal more meaning under the circumstances.

Also, you have to keep in mind that Rand's female characters practice hero worship. It's part of her psychology that shows up consistently in her work.

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It's been a while since I read the book, but as I recall, the two gave each other names. He called her The Golden One, she called him The Unconquered. I thought of it as something like terms of endearment, pet names like "sweetheart" and "honey" but with a great deal more meaning under the circumstances.

Also, you have to keep in mind that Rand's female characters practice hero worship. It's part of her psychology that shows up consistently in her work.

Thanks for the response. I am talking about when he names himself Prometheus and he names her Gaia. And I believe Hero Worship is different from blind submission.

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Go get yourself woman and find out who's really submissive to whom.

--Brant

I am not sure but I am assuming this is supposed to be a joke, if so then it is a funny stereotype. If it is serious then I disagree because I have been in my share of relationships and it really depends on the situation with regard to who is submissive to whom. On a side note this doesn't really address my question. :smile:

It's what I call a "think joke." All my jokes are think jokes--being a thinker, natch. In any case, I think of that woman as a prop necessary to give the protagonist an existence, a future. Just an embryo for future Rand female characters. It's interesting to note that the main, dominant characters in Rand's novels are Kira and Dagny with Dominique more ambivalent to her novel. Not so in Anthem. Or, you may have confused submissive with undeveloped. You might do better to examine Kira's character for your idea of submission. There's really no traction for that in this little diamond of a story.

--Brant

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Go get yourself woman and find out who's really submissive to whom.

--Brant

I am not sure but I am assuming this is supposed to be a joke, if so then it is a funny stereotype. If it is serious then I disagree because I have been in my share of relationships and it really depends on the situation with regard to who is submissive to whom. On a side note this doesn't really address my question. :smile:

It's what I call a "think joke." All my jokes are think jokes--being a thinker, natch. In any case, I think of that woman as a prop necessary to give the protagonist an existence, a future. Just an embryo for future Rand female characters. It's interesting to note that the main, dominant characters in Rand's novels are Kira and Dagny with Dominique more ambivalent to her novel. Not so in Anthem. Or, you may have confused submissive with undeveloped. You might do better to examine Kira's character for your idea of submission. There's really no traction for that in this little diamond of a story.

--Brant

Your point is fair but I think there are plenty of examples in Anthem to support my claim as I have provided. I feel that in Anthem Ayn Rand mixes the idea of Hero Worship with submission and blind following. Even though the story is short she does develop the Golden One enough for me to form an opinion.

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Go get yourself woman and find out who's really submissive to whom.

--Brant

I am not sure but I am assuming this is supposed to be a joke, if so then it is a funny stereotype. If it is serious then I disagree because I have been in my share of relationships and it really depends on the situation with regard to who is submissive to whom. On a side note this doesn't really address my question. :smile:

It's what I call a "think joke." All my jokes are think jokes--being a thinker, natch. In any case, I think of that woman as a prop necessary to give the protagonist an existence, a future. Just an embryo for future Rand female characters. It's interesting to note that the main, dominant characters in Rand's novels are Kira and Dagny with Dominique more ambivalent to her novel. Not so in Anthem. Or, you may have confused submissive with undeveloped. You might do better to examine Kira's character for your idea of submission. There's really no traction for that in this little diamond of a story.

--Brant

Your point is fair but I think there are plenty of examples in Anthem to support my claim as I have provided. I feel that in Anthem Ayn Rand mixes the idea of Hero Worship with submission and blind following. Even though the story is short she does develop the Golden One enough for me to form an opinion.

Now that you have your opinion it's time to stop there? I'm asking because I don't think the female in this story travels--she is just as she is and very close to nothing at all leaving not much to discuss or argue about. For that consider Rand's three novels in the order written, or at least Penthouse Legend. In fact, the play would be great, shorthand way to continue this conversation, but that's up to you for you started it. My interest is reactive.

--Brant

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Brant is right. There's very little development of Anthem's female character. We can't even call her a female lead. She's a plot tool. A question for you, Cowboy. If that character had been male, would you be asking these questions?

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Brant is right. There's very little development of Anthem's female character. We can't even call her a female lead. She's a plot tool. A question for you, Cowboy. If that character had been male, would you be asking these questions?

Ah, that might be Frank O'Connor!?

--Brant

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Brant is right. There's very little development of Anthem's female character. We can't even call her a female lead. She's a plot tool. A question for you, Cowboy. If that character had been male, would you be asking these questions?

Yes, they could be male or female. On a side note I don't believe they are a plot tool because then story could exist and be pretty much the same without them. She put them in there not to further plot but to make a specific point about male/female relations which in anthem differs from other books such as Atlas Shrugged.

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Brant is right. There's very little development of Anthem's female character. We can't even call her a female lead. She's a plot tool. A question for you, Cowboy. If that character had been male, would you be asking these questions?

Yes, they could be male or female. On a side note I don't believe they are a plot tool because then story could exist and be pretty much the same without them. She put them in there not to further plot but to make a specific point about male/female relations which in anthem differs from other books such as Atlas Shrugged.

Not quite. The point is her hero needs a woman. Suppose you were the last human being on earth and knew it absolutely. You have anything you need to live out your young life in comfort. Now imagine you were one of two, you and the woman you love and she loves you. Now compare the two states of affairs. In Anthem he and her are effectively such people. And which story do you prefer: woman or no woman?

--Brant

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Brant is right. There's very little development of Anthem's female character. We can't even call her a female lead. She's a plot tool. A question for you, Cowboy. If that character had been male, would you be asking these questions?

Yes, they could be male or female. On a side note I don't believe they are a plot tool because the story could exist and be pretty much the same without them. She put them in there not to further plot but to make a specific point about male/female relations which in anthem differs from other books such as Atlas Shrugged.

Procreation requires a male and a female of the species. To resolve the conflict of the plot, the hero must set out to create a brand new world. How inspiring would that be if the reader knew it would only last as long as the hero's lifetime? Beyond that, what point about male/female relations do you think Rand was trying to make?

You know, I don't really disagree with you in that I would have liked for Anthem to include a stronger female character. I feel the same about most of Rand's writings. I've just accepted that her particular psychology did not lead her to write such characters.

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