Modern Architecture at Its Worst

[Brant Gaede]

Francisco has set the adult standard to which we can all repair but we all won't.

--Brant

Daddy took the T-bird away!

[Selene]

No... I found Fernando's statement inexplicable.

Let's use your analogy of music. I loved the Beatles in the 1960's and 1970's. Then Top 40 radio ran them into the ground. I have not purposefully chosen to play a Beatles song in decades.

Is this some kind of self flagellation using music?

If you listened to a classical musical station and they "over-played" Mozart, a composer you love, you would "purposefully" not choose to play Mozart?

Is this a Dominique Francon psychosis?

I love reading _______, therefore, since everyone put it on their best seller list for a decade, I am going to deprive my aesthetic pleasure and refuse to read _________ forever!

That'll teach me!

Seems a tad sick to me.

A...

[Ellen Stuttle]

No... I found Fernando's statement inexplicable.

[....]

Is this some kind of self flagellation using music?

My first reaction was like yours, but then I thought that possibly what Francisco is talking about is the sort of effect which happened for me re Scott Joplin in the early 70s. Joplin's music became such a rage in New York City as almost to be omnipresent every time one took an elevator or a taxi ride, went to a bank, a luncheonette, a newsstand, etc.

I liked the music at first, but it got so that I could hardly stand to hear it.

Ellen

[Brant Gaede]

No... I found Fernando's statement inexplicable.

[....]

Is this some kind of self flagellation using music?

My first reaction was like yours, but then I thought that possibly what Francisco is talking about is the sort of effect which happened for me re Scott Joplin in the early 70s. Joplin's music became such a rage in New York City as almost to be omnipresent every time one took an elevator or a taxi ride, went to a bank, a luncheonette, a newsstand, etc.

I liked the music at first, but it got so that I could hardly stand to hear it.

Ellen

Maybe that's the reason (not!) Rand wasn't a fan--"I am not a fan [of Elvis]" (audience laughter).

Brant

she could be funny

[PDS]

No... I found Fernando's statement inexplicable.

[....]

Is this some kind of self flagellation using music?

My first reaction was like yours, but then I thought that possibly what Francisco is talking about is the sort of effect which happened for me re Scott Joplin in the early 70s. Joplin's music became such a rage in New York City as almost to be omnipresent every time one took an elevator or a taxi ride, went to a bank, a luncheonette, a newsstand, etc.

I liked the music at first, but it got so that I could hardly stand to hear it.

Ellen

That's how I took the comment as well.

Let's be honest: most of us don't know what we're talking about when it comes to architecture, but we do know "what we like." i love Fallingwater. I wish I wasn't aware that it leaked, likely has mold problems, and smells of seaweed. Etc., etc.

Isn't a great deal of the rest of this window dressing?

[Brant Gaede]

Naked windows? I don't need no stinkin' naked windows!

--Brant

you have to differentiate esthetics from the structure behind the esthetics even if they are integrated, as they are, for what you see is what we are talking about as anyone can who is not an architect--the rest is Toohey and no one here is doing that hooey (I hope)

[Jonathan]

Great. I'll look for it on my next visit to New York. I didn't see it last year.

Were you looking for it last year, or were you looking to confirm your biases so as to enjoy having something to gripe about?

Here's the Lever House, one of the tired old designs of the early 1950's.

Here's the new Federal Building in Cleveland, one of the radical new designs of the 21st century:

Same instrument, new melody?

Um, that's not a new building. It's a digitally rendered visual proposal of a facade makeover that an old building is receiving.

If you're searching for new architecture, it's not really going to be effective to look at old buildings and misidentify them as new. You'd have much better luck if you were to go out and search for actual new buildings.

If that is the case, then just a few designers overhauled the look of the centers of American cities, 1900-1950.

Yes. During any one time in history, most designers borrow from others, or downright copy them. The history of architecture has rarely been about thrill-seeking novelty.

Let's use your analogy of music. I loved the Beatles in the 1960's and 1970's. Then Top 40 radio ran them into the ground. I have not purposefully chosen to play a Beatles song in decades.

That's a great solution. If you don't like classic rock, then don't tune to a classic rock station. If you want great Italian food, don't go to a sushi bar. If you want to see exciting new clothing fashions, don't expect to find them worn by people in corporate boardrooms or government agency headquarters.

And if you want to see wildly original, revolutionary styles of architecture, don't look for them in business or government towers, or in sections of cities where there are aesthetic covenants due to local pride in historical landmarks. Tune to a different station: arts and cultural centers, educational complexes, etc.

Examples in Cleveland:

J

[Jonathan]

I'm looking forward to seeing more work completed by Jean Nouvel. I think that his Guthrie Theater in my hometown is super cool.



And his Qatar museum looks like it will be awesome.





J

[BaalChatzaf]

I'm looking forward to seeing more work completed by Jean Nouvel. I think that his Guthrie Theater in my hometown is super cool.

And his Qatar museum looks like it will be awesome.

J

The Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis is marvelous. The stage in the round is great and the seating is steep so the lady wearing a gross hat in front of you does not block the view.

[caroljane]

Old Man Gehry did a better job in Spain than he did on his hometown art gallery, if you ask me. but as somebody who likes the look of Old City Hall.(1899) and "New" City Hall (1966), you wouldn't ask me about architecture anyway.

[Brant Gaede]

I ask.

--Brant

this is generic

[william.scherk]

Here's the new Federal Building in Cleveland, one of the radical new designs of the 21st century:

Same instrument, new melody?

Um, that's not a new building. It's a digitally rendered visual proposal of a facade makeover that an old building is receiving.

That bit of knowledge led me to this article, "Managing Modern" -- it looks like the Cleveland building facade/interior upgrade is part of a larger movement. It makes sense, modern-era buildings are getting pretty degraded in some areas (as FF's link to decaying DC Brutalist buildings demonstrated).

Here below a picture of a new tower designed for central Vancouver. The downtown peninsula is almost completely saturated with the same old same old Vancouverism, but a few plots remain, so this is one of several overheights among hundreds. One reason why this tower and podia stand out from the cake and cookies walls of blue/green glass is that the architect is not from here. Most of the Vancouverist towers and neighborhoods were designed by local firms. (oddly or not, the Vancouver vernacular is exportable -- see Vancouverism in San Diego)

One remarkable part of the design is how it fits with the odd shards of available footprint, as the location is partly under an exit ramp and bridge deck. From the blurbs locally, the architect attempts to mirror the kind of cultural space a short boat ride away at Granville Island, our town's major urban success story (note the crowd at lower left).

Granville Island, for those who don't know, is a multiuse former industrial ground turned into public market and arts nexus. A big tourist attraction. Its built form is of course anything but modern, being refurbished sheds and other work-ish blocky metal-sided masses.

This video gives a bit of the feel of the place. Americans might be more familiar with the also-successful Seattle market precinct.

[caroljane]

I ask.

--Brant

this is generic

thanks for asking! In a desultory attempt to educate self a bit on a subject I have gratefully thought little about since reluctantly concluding that Howard R was a great lover but a. Highly unreliable contractor , I googled a bunch of cities architecture. TucsOn knocked me dead. There is something about turquoise doors that speaks to my very soul. I ought to have known but didn't,t how Spanish organic it must look. There is a site called Design I with Reason ,...any relation?

[Selene]

thanks for asking! In a desultory attempt to educate self a bit on a subject I have gratefully thought little about since reluctantly concluding that Howard R was a great lover but a. Highly unreliable contractor , I googled a bunch of cities architecture. TucsOn knocked me dead. There is something about turquoise doors that speaks to my very soul. I ought to have known but didn't,t how Spanish organic it must look. There is a site called Design I with Reason ,...any relation?

Geez, Carol, is there some sort of translation of that outburst?

[caroljane]

Hunh? Me, burst out?...Wha'...I gotta post in French now? OK,OK...just let me get my meds heh heh....

[Brant Gaede]

Hunh? Me, burst out?...Wha'...I gotta post in French now? OK,OK...just let me get my meds heh heh....

You must be hanging with some weird people.

--Brant

[caroljane]

Um, aren't we all?

[Selene]

Um, aren't we all?

Of course we are,

However, that is no excuse for clarity in a post,

My recollection is that you [Carol] would have jumped all over your post # 88:

thanks for asking! In a desultory attempt to educate self a bit on a subject I have gratefully thought little about since reluctantly concluding that Howard R was a great lover but a. Highly unreliable contractor , I googled a bunch of cities architecture. TucsOn knocked me dead. There is something about turquoise doors that speaks to my very soul. I ought to have known but didn't,t how Spanish organic it must look. There is a site called Design I with Reason ,...any relation?

And I have no problem with errors, hell, I have made more than enough.

A...

[Francisco Ferrer]

No... I found Fernando's statement inexplicable.

Let's use your analogy of music. I loved the Beatles in the 1960's and 1970's. Then Top 40 radio ran them into the ground. I have not purposefully chosen to play a Beatles song in decades.

Is this some kind of self flagellation using music?

If you listened to a classical musical station and they "over-played" Mozart, a composer you love, you would "purposefully" not choose to play Mozart?

Is this a Dominique Francon psychosis?

I love reading _______, therefore, since everyone put it on their best seller list for a decade, I am going to deprive my aesthetic pleasure and refuse to read _________ forever!

That'll teach me!

Seems a tad sick to me.

A...

I know there must be people who eat the same thing for dinner every night, no exceptions. However, most indivdiauls, if they can afford it, like a little variation, Mon: tacos; Tue: grilled chicken; Wed: meat loaf; Thu: salmon; Fri: beef stew; Sat: pizza; Sun: fried chicken, and then back to the tacos again.

This psychotic fetish for change, I suppose, is a result of American affluence.

[Francisco Ferrer]

Great. I'll look for it on my next visit to New York. I didn't see it last year.

Were you looking for it last year, or were you looking to confirm your biases so as to enjoy having something to gripe about?

I must have been looking in the wrong location. I was on the isle of Manhattan. Next time I'll try Brooklyn.

Um, that's not a new building. It's a digitally rendered visual proposal of a facade makeover that an old building is receiving.

If you're searching for new architecture, it's not really going to be effective to look at old buildings and misidentify them as new. You'd have much better luck if you were to go out and search for actual new buildings.

There was an opportunity to do something different with the exterior, and they went with the same old glass and steel rubber stamp. Look at New York's skyscrapers of the past 20 years. They are, for the most part, suits cut from the same fabric: the New York Times Building, the Trump World Tower, the Bloomberg Tower, 7 World Trade Center, the MiMA Building, etc. I acknowledge exceptions such as Gehry's magnificent 8 Spruce Street. But for the most part, the major buildings of the past two decades do not vary significantly from architecture of 70 years ago. We're in a rut.

If that is the case, then just a few designers overhauled the look of the centers of American cities, 1900-1950.

Yes. During any one time in history, most designers borrow from others, or downright copy them. The history of architecture has rarely been about thrill-seeking novelty.

At present, most new buildings are copies of copies of copies.

Let's use your analogy of music. I loved the Beatles in the 1960's and 1970's. Then Top 40 radio ran them into the ground. I have not purposefully chosen to play a Beatles song in decades.

That's a great solution. If you don't like classic rock, then don't tune to a classic rock station. If you want great Italian food, don't go to a sushi bar. If you want to see exciting new clothing fashions, don't expect to find them worn by people in corporate boardrooms or government agency headquarters.

And if you want to see wildly original, revolutionary styles of architecture, don't look for them in business or government towers, or in sections of cities where there are aesthetic covenants due to local pride in historical landmarks. Tune to a different station: arts and cultural centers, educational complexes, etc.

On my next search for exciting new buildings in New York, I will avoid the neighborhoods where I don't expect them to be located.

[william.scherk]

thanks for asking! In a desultory attempt to educate self a bit on a subject I have gratefully thought little about since reluctantly concluding that Howard R was a great lover but a. Highly unreliable contractor , I googled a bunch of cities architecture. TucsOn knocked me dead. There is something about turquoise doors that speaks to my very soul. I ought to have known but didn't,t how Spanish organic it must look. There is a site called Design I with Reason ,...any relation?

Geez, Carol, is there some sort of translation of that outburst?

Carol's quick-posted comments are not completely opaque to me, Adam. I took her to admitting that she doesn't think about architecture too much. I also read 'highly unreliable contractor' to be a reference to the destruction of Roark's work (well, the work of the workers) in The Fountainhead. I read the 'googled a bunch' to be fairly straightforward: she googled, eg "Tucson Architecture.'

The 'turquoise doors' she noted are depictions of Tucson architecture in the Old Barrio. She loved the feel of the neighborhood ... and the reference to "Design I with Reason' is to another result stemming from "Tucson architecture." Link

One such Tucson doorway:

[Brant Gaede]

Not a common color on or in Tucson homes and other buildings. The color comes from the natural stone used in Navajo silversmithed jewelry. The tribe is hundreds of miles north of Tucson. It's a great color.

--Brant

[PDS]

Um, aren't we all?

As long as we're passing out corners to everybody, I hereby recommend that Carol gets one to call her own.

Exhibit A: the above post.

[Selene]

Um, aren't we all?

As long as we're passing out corners to everybody, I hereby recommend that Carol gets one to call her own.

Exhibit A: the above post.

Totally agree.

[Brant Gaede]

Corners are ghettos. They currently work for George and Stephen on OL right now. Stephen needs it as he's so determined to electronically put his work up and out as part of his ongoing research and writing. Feedback and all that. I'm mostly reactive and need a corner not. Corners are neither rewards nor flatterly. They are work stations.

--Brant

too lazy to work