Natanyahu Lowers the Boom

[Jules Troy]

There is only one thing HAMAS and it's supporters need to do now so Israel will finally be left in peace....

[Marc]

I say it is a matter of intent. It is not Israels fault for having Iron Dome that intercepts almost all incoming rockets. The intent is to kill as many Israeli people as possible indiscriminately. I say if HAMAS sends 800 rockets Israel should send 1600 back every day. See how many rockets they want to send after a week of that.

Agreed , the policy use to be you kill one , we kill ten . I like that better but again its the weak pragmatic Israeli leaders whom need to on top of everything , juggle Arab votes in the Knesset as sometimes they are not as friendly to their country as should be expected .

[anthony]

Marc, Basically, I consider Bibi a man for the moment, a leader who can be hard in hard times while not losing sight of soft times(hopefully) ahead. I think he knows too, that what he and Israelis do now, will not only reverberate to enemies and critics in future years -as it always does there- but also cut to the heart of future generations of Israelis. They are a rational and moral people mainly, and they themselves would rather hold that - and equally still survive and thrive. A hell of a balancing act, but I'm sure he's the man to do it. Oh, and I admire him (um, I said that). Thanks for your info, btw.

[moralist]

Michael, I don't object to core stories as long as they don't distort rationality in foreign relations or understanding what is really going on in the world. I can see value for Jews in these stories even if today's Jews are not the actual, literal descendants from the Jews of the ancient diaspora caused by the Romans. What happened to them?

I have to say you've drained all the blood out of the idea of "tribe" or "tribal" to re-enforce your thesis. You basic point is valid, but you kept on going after making it obscuring it in turn.

As for that play in France, I can only evaluate it through your eyes and I choose not to. That doesn't mean I'm objecting to what you said, for it's well worth keeping in mind. And I'd never have even heard of it if you hadn't told us about it. I do wonder about the legalities and permissions behind the production.

--Brant

In the Hebrew bible , Jerusalem in mentioned 669 times . In the Koran , it is not mentioned once . Jerusalem means something to Jews , this was my point . Even as I do not believe in God and take no part in religion at all , " Next year in Jerusalem " , is powerful for me .

Indeed... it will be powerful for all Jews.

During the last blood moon tetrad, the Jews were at war in Gaza.

During this blood moon tetrad, the Jews are at war in Gaza.

The final total lunar eclipse of this series of four will take place on September 28th, 2015

and the path of the eclipse will pass directly over Jerusalem.

Greg

[Jules Troy]

And if Jesus rises from the grave and sees his own shadow there will be 6 more weeks of winter!

[moralist]

THE U.N. PARTITION PLAN LEFT ONLY 25% OF THE ORIGINAL LAND PROMISED TO ISRAEL.

THAT 25% WAS FURTHER REDUCED BY ALMOST HALF IN FURTHER CONCESSIONS TO ARAB DEMANDS.

IN THE END, ARABS WERE AWARDED 85% OF THE BRITISH MANDATE LANDS, JEWS GETTING A PALTRY 15% OF WHAT HAD BEEN SET ASIDE FOR A JEWISH HOMELAND.

IT WAS ROBBERY ON A GRAND SCALE!

...and the Jews took those lemons and made lemonade out of them, to the envy of the Arabs.

Greg

very true but not the issue .

Yeah, my comments are frequently off the beaten path because that's where I travel.

This was to explain to anyone interested that the palestinians currently have 85 percent of said land and Israel has 15 % , and a million+ Arab Israelis live in the 15% happily

There is a reason the Palestinians have better lives in the 15% than in the 85%: It's the Jews.

Greg

[Marc]

Marc, Basically, I consider Bibi a man for the moment, a leader who can be hard in hard times while not losing sight of soft times(hopefully) ahead. I think he knows too, that what he and Israelis do now, will not only reverberate to enemies and critics in future years -as it always does there- but also cut to the heart of future generations of Israelis. They are a rational and moral people mainly, and they themselves would rather hold that - and equally still survive and thrive. A hell of a balancing act, but I'm sure he's the man to do it. Oh, and I admire him (um, I said that). Thanks for your info, btw.

I remember how amazing he spoke during the first Gulf war , I think . Before he held office , when he was on CNN and the world seemed to really like him . I agree with you , its an impossible balancing act . I just always think that " not one inch " should have been the nations mantra forever but I do agree with your post , thanks

[Marc]

THE U.N. PARTITION PLAN LEFT ONLY 25% OF THE ORIGINAL LAND PROMISED TO ISRAEL.

THAT 25% WAS FURTHER REDUCED BY ALMOST HALF IN FURTHER CONCESSIONS TO ARAB DEMANDS.

IN THE END, ARABS WERE AWARDED 85% OF THE BRITISH MANDATE LANDS, JEWS GETTING A PALTRY 15% OF WHAT HAD BEEN SET ASIDE FOR A JEWISH HOMELAND.

IT WAS ROBBERY ON A GRAND SCALE!

...and the Jews took those lemons and made lemonade out of them, to the envy of the Arabs.

Greg

very true but not the issue .

Yeah, my comments are frequently off the beaten path because that's where I travel.

This was to explain to anyone interested that the palestinians currently have 85 percent of said land and Israel has 15 % , and a million+ Arab Israelis live in the 15% happily

There is a reason the Palestinians have better lives in the 15% than in the 85%: It's the Jews.

Greg

Understood and agreed !!!!!!

[Marc]

marc I agree, some JINO's are even worse than that...OPENLY anti-Israel, 5th columnists of the worse kind.

Yes ! Please lets include in the list our own Henry Kissenger who said in the 6 day war , when BEGGED by Golda Meir to send ammunition " Let them bleed some more " , and the motherF----- waited until the armies of 5 nations crossed the entire country and meet in the middle .

Then as Golda had a nervous breakdown , and the army was able to start fighting back as they needed a few days to mobilize . So they decided to fight not in Israel as to enter their countries and within days destroyed most of the infrastructure in those 5 countries and march towards all their capitals .

Then the US stepped in and told them to stop . Then the Soviets said they had nuclear subs outside Israel ready to fire , then the world stepped in , then Israel was forced to stop , then the Israelis were forced to give back land in a defensive war as no nations are ever required to do .

Lovely .

Anyway , lets get back to talking about the lovely Hamas and their rights . Sorry

The 6-day war was in 1967. What you are describing happened--what?--6 years later.

Israel would have gained nothing by continuing its assault on the surrounded Egyptian army in Egypt proper and the U.S. did it a favor by telling it to stop.

That Israel had expanded into the Sinai--occupying it--actually made it vulnerable to the initial Egyptian assault across the canal. The ratio between population, the size of land to be defended and length of borders has a lot to do with effective defensibility. The size of Israel is both an essential vulnerability and a strength.

This war--the one you are actually talking about--left Israel much stronger, especially because Jordan jumped into it and lost what Israel and its Jews greatly coveted: access to the Western Wall.

Another strength and weakness of Israel is it's full of emotionalized, nationalistic with the ethnic-religious twist hot-heads like yourself--and you are religious here, never mind God--some high up in political-military command and control--who might go off the deep end in some Gotterdammerung when all else seems lost. That apparently almost happened in 1973, when Israel prepared to use nuclear weapons in an obvious way and, in response, the U.S.--that is Nixon--told the military to start a massive re-supply airlift to Israel using giant C-5 cargo planes and never mind using up their own reserves. With these supplies Israel turned the war around in its own favor. Israel had made itself weak, which led to the war, by pretending its defensive line along the Suez Canal was impregnable and therefore Israel itself was. Not true.

--Brant

Thanks for those comments , I actually did make a mistake confusing a few of the wars 67 and 73 , not sure why I often make that mistake but I do . Thanks for the clarification . I am not in agreement with everything in your well thought out post though but I am not going to go on and on because I just see that this will never really end in that we clearly do not agree on this . I also do not appreciate terms like hothead to describe me , and incorrectly defending a poster ( I cannot remember his name ) who called me moronic . I will remind you how amazing this board is and that folks here usually are so objective . You called me emotional , yet while calling me a hothead ?

[BaalChatzaf]

Have you noticed that the Israelis are using advanced telephone technology to warn civilians in Gaza to get out of harm's way. When has this ever happened before? Never.

Israel is the only nation on earth that has to sue for peace after winning a war.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Brant Gaede]

marc I agree, some JINO's are even worse than that...OPENLY anti-Israel, 5th columnists of the worse kind.

Yes ! Please lets include in the list our own Henry Kissenger who said in the 6 day war , when BEGGED by Golda Meir to send ammunition " Let them bleed some more " , and the motherF----- waited until the armies of 5 nations crossed the entire country and meet in the middle .

Then as Golda had a nervous breakdown , and the army was able to start fighting back as they needed a few days to mobilize . So they decided to fight not in Israel as to enter their countries and within days destroyed most of the infrastructure in those 5 countries and march towards all their capitals .

Then the US stepped in and told them to stop . Then the Soviets said they had nuclear subs outside Israel ready to fire , then the world stepped in , then Israel was forced to stop , then the Israelis were forced to give back land in a defensive war as no nations are ever required to do .

Lovely .

Anyway , lets get back to talking about the lovely Hamas and their rights . Sorry

The 6-day war was in 1967. What you are describing happened--what?--6 years later.

Israel would have gained nothing by continuing its assault on the surrounded Egyptian army in Egypt proper and the U.S. did it a favor by telling it to stop.

That Israel had expanded into the Sinai--occupying it--actually made it vulnerable to the initial Egyptian assault across the canal. The ratio between population, the size of land to be defended and length of borders has a lot to do with effective defensibility. The size of Israel is both an essential vulnerability and a strength.

This war--the one you are actually talking about--left Israel much stronger, especially because Jordan jumped into it and lost what Israel and its Jews greatly coveted: access to the Western Wall.

Another strength and weakness of Israel is it's full of emotionalized, nationalistic with the ethnic-religious twist hot-heads like yourself--and you are religious here, never mind God--some high up in political-military command and control--who might go off the deep end in some Gotterdammerung when all else seems lost. That apparently almost happened in 1973, when Israel prepared to use nuclear weapons in an obvious way and, in response, the U.S.--that is Nixon--told the military to start a massive re-supply airlift to Israel using giant C-5 cargo planes and never mind using up their own reserves. With these supplies Israel turned the war around in its own favor. Israel had made itself weak, which led to the war, by pretending its defensive line along the Suez Canal was impregnable and therefore Israel itself was. Not true.

--Brant

Thanks for those comments , I actually did make a mistake confusing a few of the wars 67 and 73 , not sure why I often make that mistake but I do . Thanks for the clarification . I am not in agreement with everything in your well thought out post though but I am not going to go on and on because I just see that this will never really end in that we clearly do not agree on this . I also do not appreciate terms like hothead to describe me , and incorrectly defending a poster ( I cannot remember his name ) who called me moronic . I will remind you how amazing this board is and that folks here usually are so objective . You called me emotional , yet while calling me a hothead ?

I suggest you can't find refuge from looking at yourself in the mirror by semantical objections that may be valid in themselves and not seeing yourself as you really are. The idea of being a Jew it seems to me is the single most powerful affecting idea on earth and to properly be with that is to undestand it so it doesn't turn around and bite you. No one gets to call you a "hothead" then without being completely wrong. I admit I'm trying to stick your face into a bucket of cold water. I'll do it again if I have to. No point in telling me it should be 20 degrees warmer. Warmer will happen by itself. I just won't keep adding ice cubes. As for me, I hope to visit Israel someday and dance around the campfire with a bunch of Jews singing Hava Nagila! I really do like you guys. Israel really needs America for the occasional but necessary constructive ass-kicking because it's so full of itself. That need is dire. America is why Jews are not alone in this world and why they are so free to be so successful in spite of their small numbers. And America needs Jews to go along with its own citizens who aren't Jews but also do all those brainiac and productive and life affirming things. Jews are Jews of Israel but Americans are the Jews of the world. That's enough critical mass to stop a future Holocaust, but it's gotta be used.

As for me and any offense I may have given you, it's too trite for me to go back and examine in detail and admit I was wrong if I was wrong. I'm sure there is some wrong in there out of my own hotheadedness. Get over it. I'm going on to my next screed and you'll find it a lot more fun if you do the same.

--Brant

dunk! dunk!

I am open to bribery if you want me to stop (I prefer silver, gold and fine wine, but PayPal is fine)

[moralist]

Here's some raw IDF footage of a Hamas tunnel being obliterated by an air strike. I hope it was chock full of gophers.

http://video.ap.org/Raw-Israeli-Defense-Forces-Strike-Gaza-Tunnel-26426896?playlistId=10218#.U8rOkWdOWmQ

It's personally satisfying to see good destroy evil.

Greg

[Jules Troy]

Can't argue there...lol@gophers.

[moralist]

Can you imagine the immense force of the shockwave travelling back through the tunnel?.

I bet it blows them right out the other end like a big fart!

Greg

[Marc]

“Here’s the difference between us,” explains the Israeli prime minister. “We’re using missile defense to protect our civilians, and they’re using their civilians to protect their missiles.”

I would very much like your comment on this Brant . Also perhaps our friend who called me a moron as well , just cannot remember which poster it is right now .

[Marc]

Have you noticed that the Israelis are using advanced telephone technology to warn civilians in Gaza to get out of harm's way. When has this ever happened before? Never.

Israel is the only nation on earth that has to sue for peace after winning a war.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Its beautiful and the pictures of Israeli soldiers helping young Arab children as well . No soldier on earth ( sorry , but true ) , acts like the Israeli soldier . Especially under a constant state of war where the enemy has every stated intention to destroy all Jews .

[Backlighting]

Can you imagine the immense force of the shockwave travelling back through the tunnel?.

I bet it blows them right out the other end like a big fart!

Greg

lol

[Marc]

marc I agree, some JINO's are even worse than that...OPENLY anti-Israel, 5th columnists of the worse kind.

Yes ! Please lets include in the list our own Henry Kissenger who said in the 6 day war , when BEGGED by Golda Meir to send ammunition " Let them bleed some more " , and the motherF----- waited until the armies of 5 nations crossed the entire country and meet in the middle .

Then as Golda had a nervous breakdown , and the army was able to start fighting back as they needed a few days to mobilize . So they decided to fight not in Israel as to enter their countries and within days destroyed most of the infrastructure in those 5 countries and march towards all their capitals .

Then the US stepped in and told them to stop . Then the Soviets said they had nuclear subs outside Israel ready to fire , then the world stepped in , then Israel was forced to stop , then the Israelis were forced to give back land in a defensive war as no nations are ever required to do .

Lovely .

Anyway , lets get back to talking about the lovely Hamas and their rights . Sorry

The 6-day war was in 1967. What you are describing happened--what?--6 years later.

Israel would have gained nothing by continuing its assault on the surrounded Egyptian army in Egypt proper and the U.S. did it a favor by telling it to stop.

That Israel had expanded into the Sinai--occupying it--actually made it vulnerable to the initial Egyptian assault across the canal. The ratio between population, the size of land to be defended and length of borders has a lot to do with effective defensibility. The size of Israel is both an essential vulnerability and a strength.

This war--the one you are actually talking about--left Israel much stronger, especially because Jordan jumped into it and lost what Israel and its Jews greatly coveted: access to the Western Wall.

Another strength and weakness of Israel is it's full of emotionalized, nationalistic with the ethnic-religious twist hot-heads like yourself--and you are religious here, never mind God--some high up in political-military command and control--who might go off the deep end in some Gotterdammerung when all else seems lost. That apparently almost happened in 1973, when Israel prepared to use nuclear weapons in an obvious way and, in response, the U.S.--that is Nixon--told the military to start a massive re-supply airlift to Israel using giant C-5 cargo planes and never mind using up their own reserves. With these supplies Israel turned the war around in its own favor. Israel had made itself weak, which led to the war, by pretending its defensive line along the Suez Canal was impregnable and therefore Israel itself was. Not true.

--Brant

Thanks for those comments , I actually did make a mistake confusing a few of the wars 67 and 73 , not sure why I often make that mistake but I do . Thanks for the clarification . I am not in agreement with everything in your well thought out post though but I am not going to go on and on because I just see that this will never really end in that we clearly do not agree on this . I also do not appreciate terms like hothead to describe me , and incorrectly defending a poster ( I cannot remember his name ) who called me moronic . I will remind you how amazing this board is and that folks here usually are so objective . You called me emotional , yet while calling me a hothead ?

I suggest you can't find refuge from looking at yourself in the mirror by semantical objections that may be valid in themselves and not seeing yourself as you really are. The idea of being a Jew it seems to me is the single most powerful affecting idea on earth and to properly be with that is to undestand it so it doesn't turn around and bite you. No one gets to call you a "hothead" then without being completely wrong. I admit I'm trying to stick your face into a bucket of cold water. I'll do it again if I have to. No point in telling me it should be 20 degrees warmer. Warmer will happen by itself. I just won't keep adding ice cubes. As for me, I hope to visit Israel someday and dance around the campfire with a bunch of Jews singing Hava Nagila! I really do like you guys. Israel really needs America for the occasional but necessary constructive ass-kicking because it's so full of itself. That need is dire. America is why Jews are not alone in this world and why they are so free to be so successful in spite of their small numbers. And America needs Jews to go along with its own citizens who aren't Jews but also do all those brainiac and productive and life affirming things. Jews are Jews of Israel but Americans are the Jews of the world. That's enough critical mass to stop a future Holocaust, but it's gotta be used.

As for me and any offense I may have given you, it's too trite for me to go back and examine in detail and admit I was wrong if I was wrong. I'm sure there is some wrong in there out of my own hotheadedness. Get over it. I'm going on to my next screed and you'll find it a lot more fun if you do the same.

--Brant

dunk! dunk!

I am open to bribery if you want me to stop (I prefer silver, gold and fine wine, but PayPal is fine)

Yeah , not really interested in bribing you my good OL friend ! Not only do I not bribe anyone ( but I also do not stand down to passive aggressive comments ) , on a site or in person !

I guess the real question is why are you trying to stick my head in a cold bucket of water ? Whats the game ?

Objectivists and also folks like me , who love Rand because she was so objective , and also love this sites cause the folks are objective . Then why not discuss Hamas , my threads , my words ? Your words like calling the United States "benevolent " towards Israel , and protecting your friend for calling me moronic ?

Why sir are you unable to finish what you start here ?

We both know why you keep stating things that have zero to do with the issue at hand .

I do not even know what "trite " means . You are talking about Hava Nagila , and gold silver and wine and trying to play word games with me and dance around which is ok , I rather enjoy doing this because it shows everyone on the thread that you refuse to discuss the issues .

See , I hope you do go to Israel , I hope you go for a visit and really see whats what . I hope you get on a normal bus and go into Bethlahem , Nazareth and see your people , help them , take them your knowledge , teach them about freedom and spread the word that we here take for granted .

But while you are singing Hava Nagila in Ghazzah , Hebron , Jericho etc , talking about the stuff you preach here ( and I usually by the way , quite enjoy lurking on your posts because you are really a great writer ! ) , just curious about how your countrymen will take to you .

[Marc]

marc I agree, some JINO's are even worse than that...OPENLY anti-Israel, 5th columnists of the worse kind.

Yes ! Please lets include in the list our own Henry Kissenger who said in the 6 day war , when BEGGED by Golda Meir to send ammunition " Let them bleed some more " , and the motherF----- waited until the armies of 5 nations crossed the entire country and meet in the middle .

Then as Golda had a nervous breakdown , and the army was able to start fighting back as they needed a few days to mobilize . So they decided to fight not in Israel as to enter their countries and within days destroyed most of the infrastructure in those 5 countries and march towards all their capitals .

Then the US stepped in and told them to stop . Then the Soviets said they had nuclear subs outside Israel ready to fire , then the world stepped in , then Israel was forced to stop , then the Israelis were forced to give back land in a defensive war as no nations are ever required to do .

Lovely .

Anyway , lets get back to talking about the lovely Hamas and their rights . Sorry

The 6-day war was in 1967. What you are describing happened--what?--6 years later.

Israel would have gained nothing by continuing its assault on the surrounded Egyptian army in Egypt proper and the U.S. did it a favor by telling it to stop.

That Israel had expanded into the Sinai--occupying it--actually made it vulnerable to the initial Egyptian assault across the canal. The ratio between population, the size of land to be defended and length of borders has a lot to do with effective defensibility. The size of Israel is both an essential vulnerability and a strength.

This war--the one you are actually talking about--left Israel much stronger, especially because Jordan jumped into it and lost what Israel and its Jews greatly coveted: access to the Western Wall.

Another strength and weakness of Israel is it's full of emotionalized, nationalistic with the ethnic-religious twist hot-heads like yourself--and you are religious here, never mind God--some high up in political-military command and control--who might go off the deep end in some Gotterdammerung when all else seems lost. That apparently almost happened in 1973, when Israel prepared to use nuclear weapons in an obvious way and, in response, the U.S.--that is Nixon--told the military to start a massive re-supply airlift to Israel using giant C-5 cargo planes and never mind using up their own reserves. With these supplies Israel turned the war around in its own favor. Israel had made itself weak, which led to the war, by pretending its defensive line along the Suez Canal was impregnable and therefore Israel itself was. Not true.

--Brant

Thanks for those comments , I actually did make a mistake confusing a few of the wars 67 and 73 , not sure why I often make that mistake but I do . Thanks for the clarification . I am not in agreement with everything in your well thought out post though but I am not going to go on and on because I just see that this will never really end in that we clearly do not agree on this . I also do not appreciate terms like hothead to describe me , and incorrectly defending a poster ( I cannot remember his name ) who called me moronic . I will remind you how amazing this board is and that folks here usually are so objective . You called me emotional , yet while calling me a hothead ?

I suggest you can't find refuge from looking at yourself in the mirror by semantical objections that may be valid in themselves and not seeing yourself as you really are. The idea of being a Jew it seems to me is the single most powerful affecting idea on earth and to properly be with that is to undestand it so it doesn't turn around and bite you. No one gets to call you a "hothead" then without being completely wrong. I admit I'm trying to stick your face into a bucket of cold water. I'll do it again if I have to. No point in telling me it should be 20 degrees warmer. Warmer will happen by itself. I just won't keep adding ice cubes. As for me, I hope to visit Israel someday and dance around the campfire with a bunch of Jews singing Hava Nagila! I really do like you guys. Israel really needs America for the occasional but necessary constructive ass-kicking because it's so full of itself. That need is dire. America is why Jews are not alone in this world and why they are so free to be so successful in spite of their small numbers. And America needs Jews to go along with its own citizens who aren't Jews but also do all those brainiac and productive and life affirming things. Jews are Jews of Israel but Americans are the Jews of the world. That's enough critical mass to stop a future Holocaust, but it's gotta be used.

As for me and any offense I may have given you, it's too trite for me to go back and examine in detail and admit I was wrong if I was wrong. I'm sure there is some wrong in there out of my own hotheadedness. Get over it. I'm going on to my next screed and you'll find it a lot more fun if you do the same.

--Brant

dunk! dunk!

I am open to bribery if you want me to stop (I prefer silver, gold and fine wine, but PayPal is fine)

See this is not about changing screens for me and having fun .You will note that in all my years here , I have a few posts only . About Barbara Branden and our archives and this one . This thread caught my eye because of the hate monger who our own very MSK banned . This is not fun for me , or the Israelis at all , or the little Arab children who are being murdered by their parents , their politics and their "Government " . I add quotations because Governments really are not if they simply murder their own in my opinion .

No , its not enough critical mass to stop a future Holocaust God forbid .

In Germany , Berlin I believe in the 30s there was some Rabbis conference and the word is that they had a banner up stating something like " not next year in Jerusalem , this year in Berlin .

I know Brant that while this makes you laugh , and talk about how you want to dance while children die , it makes my bones chill and blood boil so maybe you should go to a different screen .

[Brant Gaede]

It was George H. Smith who called you moronic on an issue being discussed. Post 148 I believe. Well, I do consider him my friend and he didn't call you a moron. Two different things. If you beg to differ, go ahead. No one will argue the point then.

It's not how my countrymen take to me, it's how I take to my countrymen.

If you think I'm a refusenick, dis-abusing yourself will stop the pain, especially don't go on with it anywhere near 24/7.

I like to digress. It's fun putting differing pieces together in derivative logical structures.

Stephen, I think, called America "benevolent" and "generous." The latter is a word I could use and the former I'm unlikely to.

"Cold bucket of water" is for hung-over people up drinking all night on Jewish culture forgetting there are other human reference points for positive consideration.

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

marc I agree, some JINO's are even worse than that...OPENLY anti-Israel, 5th columnists of the worse kind.

Yes ! Please lets include in the list our own Henry Kissenger who said in the 6 day war , when BEGGED by Golda Meir to send ammunition " Let them bleed some more " , and the motherF----- waited until the armies of 5 nations crossed the entire country and meet in the middle .

Then as Golda had a nervous breakdown , and the army was able to start fighting back as they needed a few days to mobilize . So they decided to fight not in Israel as to enter their countries and within days destroyed most of the infrastructure in those 5 countries and march towards all their capitals .

Then the US stepped in and told them to stop . Then the Soviets said they had nuclear subs outside Israel ready to fire , then the world stepped in , then Israel was forced to stop , then the Israelis were forced to give back land in a defensive war as no nations are ever required to do .

Lovely .

Anyway , lets get back to talking about the lovely Hamas and their rights . Sorry

The 6-day war was in 1967. What you are describing happened--what?--6 years later.

Israel would have gained nothing by continuing its assault on the surrounded Egyptian army in Egypt proper and the U.S. did it a favor by telling it to stop.

That Israel had expanded into the Sinai--occupying it--actually made it vulnerable to the initial Egyptian assault across the canal. The ratio between population, the size of land to be defended and length of borders has a lot to do with effective defensibility. The size of Israel is both an essential vulnerability and a strength.

This war--the one you are actually talking about--left Israel much stronger, especially because Jordan jumped into it and lost what Israel and its Jews greatly coveted: access to the Western Wall.

Another strength and weakness of Israel is it's full of emotionalized, nationalistic with the ethnic-religious twist hot-heads like yourself--and you are religious here, never mind God--some high up in political-military command and control--who might go off the deep end in some Gotterdammerung when all else seems lost. That apparently almost happened in 1973, when Israel prepared to use nuclear weapons in an obvious way and, in response, the U.S.--that is Nixon--told the military to start a massive re-supply airlift to Israel using giant C-5 cargo planes and never mind using up their own reserves. With these supplies Israel turned the war around in its own favor. Israel had made itself weak, which led to the war, by pretending its defensive line along the Suez Canal was impregnable and therefore Israel itself was. Not true.

--Brant

Thanks for those comments , I actually did make a mistake confusing a few of the wars 67 and 73 , not sure why I often make that mistake but I do . Thanks for the clarification . I am not in agreement with everything in your well thought out post though but I am not going to go on and on because I just see that this will never really end in that we clearly do not agree on this . I also do not appreciate terms like hothead to describe me , and incorrectly defending a poster ( I cannot remember his name ) who called me moronic . I will remind you how amazing this board is and that folks here usually are so objective . You called me emotional , yet while calling me a hothead ?

I suggest you can't find refuge from looking at yourself in the mirror by semantical objections that may be valid in themselves and not seeing yourself as you really are. The idea of being a Jew it seems to me is the single most powerful affecting idea on earth and to properly be with that is to undestand it so it doesn't turn around and bite you. No one gets to call you a "hothead" then without being completely wrong. I admit I'm trying to stick your face into a bucket of cold water. I'll do it again if I have to. No point in telling me it should be 20 degrees warmer. Warmer will happen by itself. I just won't keep adding ice cubes. As for me, I hope to visit Israel someday and dance around the campfire with a bunch of Jews singing Hava Nagila! I really do like you guys. Israel really needs America for the occasional but necessary constructive ass-kicking because it's so full of itself. That need is dire. America is why Jews are not alone in this world and why they are so free to be so successful in spite of their small numbers. And America needs Jews to go along with its own citizens who aren't Jews but also do all those brainiac and productive and life affirming things. Jews are Jews of Israel but Americans are the Jews of the world. That's enough critical mass to stop a future Holocaust, but it's gotta be used.

As for me and any offense I may have given you, it's too trite for me to go back and examine in detail and admit I was wrong if I was wrong. I'm sure there is some wrong in there out of my own hotheadedness. Get over it. I'm going on to my next screed and you'll find it a lot more fun if you do the same.

--Brant

dunk! dunk!

I am open to bribery if you want me to stop (I prefer silver, gold and fine wine, but PayPal is fine)

See this is not about changing screens for me and having fun .You will note that in all my years here , I have a few posts only . About Barbara Branden and our archives and this one . This thread caught my eye because of the hate monger who our own very MSK banned . This is not fun for me , or the Israelis at all , or the little Arab children who are being murdered by their parents , their politics and their "Government " . I add quotations because Governments really are not if they simply murder their own in my opinion .

No , its not enough critical mass to stop a future Holocaust God forbid .

In Germany , Berlin I believe in the 30s there was some Rabbis conference and the word is that they had a banner up stating something like " not next year in Jerusalem , this year in Berlin .

I know Brant that while this makes you laugh , and talk about how you want to dance while children die , it makes my bones chill and blood boil so maybe you should go to a different screen .

WTF?

--Brant

I said "screed" and you read "screen" and you're off to the races

I'm not going to try to deal with this gross over the top emotionalism

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Let's try this:

Everyone In Middle East Given Own Country In 317,000,000-State Solution
Jul 17, 2014
The Onion

From the article:

Marking the latest and most ambitious attempt to bring stability to the region, the United Nations announced Wednesday that every single person in the Middle East will receive his or her own sovereign nation as part of a historic 317,000,000-state solution.

The broad and extensive compromise, which affects more than 3,000,000 square miles formerly occupied by the territories of Israel, the West Bank, Gaza, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Oman, Yemen, Egypt, and Jordan, will reportedly draw over 750,000,000 new borders in what experts claim will help drastically curb sectarian violence.

“Given the incredibly complex and volatile sociopolitical landscape throughout the Middle East, a 317,000,000-state solution is the only realistic means of achieving lasting peace,” said U.N. Security Council president Eugène-Richard Gasana, noting that the treaty was reached after lengthy negotiations, which brought together each of the more than 300,000,000 independent factions.

Of course, if you read the full article, you will see that hostilities have already started before the ink is even dry on this proposal...

Michael

[Marc]

Hahahah , I love it !!!!

MSK !

[Marc]

marc I agree, some JINO's are even worse than that...OPENLY anti-Israel, 5th columnists of the worse kind.

Yes ! Please lets include in the list our own Henry Kissenger who said in the 6 day war , when BEGGED by Golda Meir to send ammunition " Let them bleed some more " , and the motherF----- waited until the armies of 5 nations crossed the entire country and meet in the middle .

Then as Golda had a nervous breakdown , and the army was able to start fighting back as they needed a few days to mobilize . So they decided to fight not in Israel as to enter their countries and within days destroyed most of the infrastructure in those 5 countries and march towards all their capitals .

Then the US stepped in and told them to stop . Then the Soviets said they had nuclear subs outside Israel ready to fire , then the world stepped in , then Israel was forced to stop , then the Israelis were forced to give back land in a defensive war as no nations are ever required to do .

Lovely .

Anyway , lets get back to talking about the lovely Hamas and their rights . Sorry

The 6-day war was in 1967. What you are describing happened--what?--6 years later.

Israel would have gained nothing by continuing its assault on the surrounded Egyptian army in Egypt proper and the U.S. did it a favor by telling it to stop.

That Israel had expanded into the Sinai--occupying it--actually made it vulnerable to the initial Egyptian assault across the canal. The ratio between population, the size of land to be defended and length of borders has a lot to do with effective defensibility. The size of Israel is both an essential vulnerability and a strength.

This war--the one you are actually talking about--left Israel much stronger, especially because Jordan jumped into it and lost what Israel and its Jews greatly coveted: access to the Western Wall.

Another strength and weakness of Israel is it's full of emotionalized, nationalistic with the ethnic-religious twist hot-heads like yourself--and you are religious here, never mind God--some high up in political-military command and control--who might go off the deep end in some Gotterdammerung when all else seems lost. That apparently almost happened in 1973, when Israel prepared to use nuclear weapons in an obvious way and, in response, the U.S.--that is Nixon--told the military to start a massive re-supply airlift to Israel using giant C-5 cargo planes and never mind using up their own reserves. With these supplies Israel turned the war around in its own favor. Israel had made itself weak, which led to the war, by pretending its defensive line along the Suez Canal was impregnable and therefore Israel itself was. Not true.

--Brant

Thanks for those comments , I actually did make a mistake confusing a few of the wars 67 and 73 , not sure why I often make that mistake but I do . Thanks for the clarification . I am not in agreement with everything in your well thought out post though but I am not going to go on and on because I just see that this will never really end in that we clearly do not agree on this . I also do not appreciate terms like hothead to describe me , and incorrectly defending a poster ( I cannot remember his name ) who called me moronic . I will remind you how amazing this board is and that folks here usually are so objective . You called me emotional , yet while calling me a hothead ?

I suggest you can't find refuge from looking at yourself in the mirror by semantical objections that may be valid in themselves and not seeing yourself as you really are. The idea of being a Jew it seems to me is the single most powerful affecting idea on earth and to properly be with that is to undestand it so it doesn't turn around and bite you. No one gets to call you a "hothead" then without being completely wrong. I admit I'm trying to stick your face into a bucket of cold water. I'll do it again if I have to. No point in telling me it should be 20 degrees warmer. Warmer will happen by itself. I just won't keep adding ice cubes. As for me, I hope to visit Israel someday and dance around the campfire with a bunch of Jews singing Hava Nagila! I really do like you guys. Israel really needs America for the occasional but necessary constructive ass-kicking because it's so full of itself. That need is dire. America is why Jews are not alone in this world and why they are so free to be so successful in spite of their small numbers. And America needs Jews to go along with its own citizens who aren't Jews but also do all those brainiac and productive and life affirming things. Jews are Jews of Israel but Americans are the Jews of the world. That's enough critical mass to stop a future Holocaust, but it's gotta be used.

As for me and any offense I may have given you, it's too trite for me to go back and examine in detail and admit I was wrong if I was wrong. I'm sure there is some wrong in there out of my own hotheadedness. Get over it. I'm going on to my next screed and you'll find it a lot more fun if you do the same.

--Brant

dunk! dunk!

I am open to bribery if you want me to stop (I prefer silver, gold and fine wine, but PayPal is fine)

See this is not about changing screens for me and having fun .You will note that in all my years here , I have a few posts only . About Barbara Branden and our archives and this one . This thread caught my eye because of the hate monger who our own very MSK banned . This is not fun for me , or the Israelis at all , or the little Arab children who are being murdered by their parents , their politics and their "Government " . I add quotations because Governments really are not if they simply murder their own in my opinion .

No , its not enough critical mass to stop a future Holocaust God forbid .

In Germany , Berlin I believe in the 30s there was some Rabbis conference and the word is that they had a banner up stating something like " not next year in Jerusalem , this year in Berlin .

I know Brant that while this makes you laugh , and talk about how you want to dance while children die , it makes my bones chill and blood boil so maybe you should go to a different screen .

WTF?

--Brant

I said "screed" and you read "screen" and you're off to the races

I'm not going to try to deal with this gross over the top emotionalism

My dads dad died in a concentration camp -he actually made it through the entire war but died when the Americans liberated the camps when a lot of the people just ate too much and drank too much too fast . My dad managed to be let out from a work camp when he was 3 as his mother ( my Grandmother ) bribed the guards and was able to leave with the family - just not the men ( there were 3 brothers ) . My other cousin lost 8 of 11 siblings in the camps . There are obviously lots of emotional stories like this .

This is why a lot of Jews cannot even do a simple family tree from before the war . Yeah , its emotional .

This basically has hit in one way or another , all the Jews alive today .

So it is very insulting to Jews and non Jews as well that you somehow make a joke like dancing to Hava Nagila in a thread as such , while in another post you quote inaccuracy after inaccuracy .

So when you speak about another Holocaust not happening , as your logic is something about critical mass which I do not understand . Thing is Brant , there are around 14 million Jews in the world . Six million in Israel , Six million in the US , and 2 million in the rest of the world . Six million were killed in the war , then look at the numbers again .

Yeah , folks get emotional when all the Arab States are calling for another Holocaust , have attempted to destroy Israel for 66 years , call for its destruction daily .

Now , while you wake up in Arizona to some beautiful weather , maybe a round of golf today , and enjoy life , we have 18 year old girls and boys trying to stop this current attempt at another Holocaust .

Is that emotion speaking , or is that reality ?

Comments like dunk , dunk from you making this debate seem like its a game . To you it is , to Israel , to Jews , its life or death .

[Marc]

And I much prefer folks who deny the Holocaust , over folks who state that " This can never happen again " .

Eyes wide open .

Look at all the Holocausts currently in the world today , in Africa and other spots too . Look at all the Holocausts since the 2nd world war .

The US army is all over the world protecting our rights . Not because they are benevolent but because they are operating out of self interest . The US ( thank God Almighty ) , understand what you do not .

I love the United States . I love their understanding of political events and how they could affect good folks down in Arizona , protecting them while the ones like you do not even grasp why you need protecting , or from who you need protecting .