Natanyahu Lowers the Boom


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http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2014/07/17/absolutely-shocking-footage-of-children-being-used-as-human-shields-in-gaza-this-will-horrify-you/

This 30 second video shows who the Israelis are fighting in Gaza .

Reminds me of Golda Meir who said something like there will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate ours .

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"When the Last Jew will be killed from this World, then Peace will be established In the World" - Pakistani Islamic scholar Muhammad Raza Saqib Mustafai

[Here is the English translation of this cleric's speech to his followers]

"And a time is about to come when Allah would bestow such a success on Islam that there would not be a single Jew left on the face of the earth. Hazrat Eisa [Jesus] would come; the warriors of Imam Mahdi [according to Islamic traditions he is the last Imam] would march into the battlefield; the pig would be killed and the symbol of cross would be broken.

"And it has been described in the books of Hadith [sayings of Prophet Muhammad] that Allah would provide such aid to the followers of Islam that if a Jew would be hiding behind a tree branch or a stone, then that stone would call out for the Muslim Jihadi [to come] towards it and would tell him that a Jew is hiding behind me.

"And when the last Jew will be killed from this world, then peace would be established in the world – so much so that snakes would roam among people but would not bite. Wolves and goats would drink water from the same quayside and goats would not have any fear from wolves. It is the guarantee of world peace when the last Jew is slain. As long as there are Jews in this world, peace cannot be established in the whole world.

"Muslims are being called terrorists, as the cause of the destruction of world peace; but it is not the reality; Muslims are fighting the war of their survival. Muslims are not terrorists; they are the lovers of peace and preachers of peace. And all the troubles that exist around the world are because of the Jews. When the Jews are wiped out, then the world would be purified and the sun of peace would begin to rise on the entire world."

یہودی اور نصرانی اسلام کے ازلی دشمن اور مسلمانوں...
YOUTUBE.COM
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Israel is going to deal with its problems one way or the other. The closer Israel is to the United States the weaker it is as a soverign nation. Every once in a while the U.S. will bring intolerable pressure to bear forcing Israel to act against its own perceived interests. This is not altruism on the part of the U.S.--the providing of aid and support in various forms; that aid is used to make Israel toe the line--it is altruism for Israel to accept it. Doing that also subsidizes its socialism. Here we can posit two kinds of altuism, subjective and objective. Taking the aid seems selfish to the taker, but that's welfare which is generally eviscerating--which is the objective evaluation.

The main reason the U.S. needs the basic status quo current relationship with Israel is to keep Israel from letting fly with its nuclear weapons by being a big brother obviating any perceived need to do so. Nuclear prolifferation has two aspects: the obtaining of these weapons and their use. Use in turn has two aspects: I've got the bomb so don't screw with me and literal use or delivery and detonation. The latter has only happened twice, ending WWII. If it happens again it will be a whole new geo-political world with just about any city, near an ocean at least, at risk, both real and psychologically to its inhabitants. The idea behind keeping Iran from getting the bomb is to protect cities. There is only one city in Israel the destruction of which destroys the country by ripping out its urban heart. The U.S, cannot be destroyed by blowing up any one city; there are too many of them. Aside from blowing up many of its cities, the way to its destruction is its electrical grid with a giant electomagnetic pulse (EMP) over its midwest heartland which cannot be repaired in time to prevent most of the population from starving to death. Cars and trucks won't run. Deliveries won't be made. Water won't flow. In fact, many people will die from dehydratrion before they starve. The former takes only days while the latter takes weeks.

--Brant

why living in a poor, third world country could be long-term safer than a modern, industrialized one

If a key goal is to prevent a terror attack on a U.S. city, how does having what Marc and Jesse Helms call an "aircraft carrier in the ME" help?

It is not a key goal . The key goal of the United States having a presence in the ME , is not an actual aircraft carrier but the entire state of Israel as the only true friend in the region with shared values . 1 State out of 23 that votes . Jesse Helms was addressing the United States foreign policy in the ME being that of a level playing field . Israel ensures this . No Israel , what do you think is going to happen ?

THE PLAYING FIELD WOULD BE UNLEVEL?

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If a key goal is to prevent a terror attack on a U.S. city, how does having what Marc and Jesse Helms call an "aircraft carrier in the ME" help?

Israel is not an aircraft carrier or air base for the United States. If American planes are stationed on Israeli soil under American control then that'd be true. That was the case for Great Britain in WWII, in spades.

--Brant

For sure. No need at all. The US has fighter jets stationed in Jordan on Jordanian soil under US control, much less, Israel, and has for years. The number waxes and wanes based on current tensions. Since at least the 90s for sure, and probably since the 80s.. I've talked with warrant officers stationed at those bases, grumbling to me about spare parts for US F16s. The US F16s based in Jordan are among the world's worst kept secrets. By design. They do no good if nobody knows they are there. It is only domestically that they are some kind of half-assed national secret. Most of America thinks we were just in Iraq and Afghanistan. There is an expensive 8 lane logistic paved highway from Ike's MIC straight into the ME and has been for years.

The US has bases in some number like 15 M.E. countries.

The US wouldn't need a base in Isreal; they have their own crowded bases.

How many Israelis in uniform in Israel? They don't need a US base in Israel; their bases are crowded already. They got an area the size of NJ covered quite well, as allies.

Hey , I am just quoting what the former director of the CIA stated . Your fight is with him , not me

Richard Helms and Jesse Helms: not the same.

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Core stories are the glue that binds cultures together, even in O-Land. We certainly have our own core stories.

Yes they are...

...and I love the Atlas Shrugged American cultural core story as much as the Bible Jewish and Christian cultural core stories because they're both superior vessels for preserving and transporting moral values from generation to generation.

And the fact that Jews were prominantly involved in the production of both only adds to the validity of the precious moral values contained within them....

...for both have blessed this world. :smile:

Greg

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The Israelis should not be showing restraint when it comes to destroying HAMAS missile caches. Perhaps if the Israel just said ok the gloves are coming off and this is war and proceeded to destroy all militarily relevant targets perhaps mayyyybeeee they might stop hiding their missiles behind the skirts of women. I like very much the idea of giving the Palestinians the option to surrender the moment they stop hostilities. I know that if some hostiles were to rain rockets down on Canada we would not be under constraint. We would just start killing them until that war was over. 800-1000 rockets fired onto heavy civilian jewish cities and the world expects them to NOT defend themselves? No defensive war has ever been won. Maybe a defensive battle or two but not a war.

We in WWll did not give a shot how many civilian casualties we inflicted when we bombed Berlin. Nor did we care about how many civilians died when we dropped the bombs on Japan. The whole point was to win the war. If Israel ends up having to kill 3/4 of that population in order for them to finally stop then that is the price that will have to be payed. One would HOPE they would have enough brains to stop before that but we are dealing with a people who's goal is to kill every last Jew from the face if the earth. That and they are just puppets who are supplied by Iran. Military arms are expensive, Palestinians for the most part are poor. They are being supplied and are fodder in a proxy war by other ME nations.

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The Israelis should not be showing restraint when it comes to destroying HAMAS missile caches. Perhaps if the Israel just said ok the gloves are coming off and this is war and proceeded to destroy all militarily relevant targets perhaps mayyyybeeee they might stop hiding their missiles behind the skirts of women. I like very much the idea of giving the Palestinians the option to surrender the moment they stop hostilities. I know that if some hostiles were to rain rockets down on Canada we would not be under constraint. We would just start killing them until that war was over. 800-1000 rockets fired onto heavy civilian jewish cities and the world expects them to NOT defend themselves? No defensive war has ever been won. Maybe a defensive battle or two but not a war.

We in WWll did not give a shot how many civilian casualties we inflicted when we bombed Berlin. Nor did we care about how many civilians died when we dropped the bombs on Japan. The whole point was to win the war. If Israel ends up having to kill 3/4 of that population in order for them to finally stop then that is the price that will have to be payed. One would HOPE they would have enough brains to stop before that but we are dealing with a people who's goal is to kill every last Jew from the face if the earth. That and they are just puppets who are supplied by Iran. Military arms are expensive, Palestinians for the most part are poor. They are being supplied and are fodder in a proxy war by other ME nations.

Israel is the only nation on earth that has to sue for peace after it has won a war

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Let me give you an example of what a core story means to us here in O-Land, as opposed to someone artsy-fartsy from the outside. It deals with The Fountainhead. In France, in a place called Avignon, they have an annual theater festival. This year they are featuring a modernistic play version of The Fountainhead.

[...]

Do you know anyone in O-Land who is going to resonate with that as anything to do with what Rand was about?

I sure don't.

[...]

On a core story level, they got the story wrong. To me it's simple. I have been living with the true core story most of my life as have others. Rand's rough sex was animalistic, not suicidal and neurotic S&M. More importantly, her rough sex was an add-on to her archetypes, not the motor driving them.

The director is quoted at the production site:

Ivo van Hove:

‘When I first read the novel the characters gripped me, each and every one of them humans of fles hand blood, and at the same time they are larger than life. They are symbols for ideas of grandeur: There’s the brilliant architect Howard Roark who follows his own ideals and dreams of a new world, a city of tomorrow. And then there’s Peter Keating, his colleague who constantly compromises and adapts his designs to fit the market’s demands. The battle between Roark and his adversaries is bloodcurdlingly well written. To me, The Fountainhead is a war of ideas. The great question the book poses: What is creation? WHat does it mean to create? And what is integrity in the process of creating? The novel is set in the milieu of architects in Twenties New York, where the battle between modernism and classicism raged, but even today its questioning of creation is one that plays in our minds: The balance between the commercial and the innovative, the market and pure expression. Rand uses the architect’s world as a metaphore to discuss art, engagement, individualism and autonomy. But The Fountainhead is also a love story that tinkers at the edges of decency. A relentless love develops between Howard Roark and Domonique Francon, that shows the hardships of giving yourself wholly to another while maintaining your own integrity. At a certain point Roark states: ‘I could die for you, but I couldn’t and wouldn’t live for you.’ It is an engaging, addictive novel that was begging to be staged.'

Ayn Rand (1905-1982) was a writer and a philosopher. After fleeing the Soviet Union to the United States, Rand set herself resolutely against socialism and all forms of altruism. She believed in the ultimate freedom of the individual. Her books and notions are inspirational, provocative and became cult treasures with millions of editions. Her other great novel Atlas Shrugged, and ode to capitalism, is the most popular book in the United States after the Bible, and it was thé source of inspiration for the Republican Party during the elections.

[...]

THE FOUNTAINHEAD BY AYN RAND. USED BY PERMISSION OF CURTIS BROWN LTD. COPYRIGHT © 1943. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

William,

This brought the following quote from The Fountainhead to mind:

Roark sat in Hopton Stoddard's office and listened, stupefied. Hopton Stoddard spoke slowly; it sounded earnest and impressive, but was due to the fact that he had memorized his speeches almost verbatim. His baby eyes looked at Roark with an ingratiating plea. For once, Roark almost forgot architecture and placed the human element first; he wanted to get up and get out of the office; he could not stand the man. But the words he heard held him; the words did not match the man's face or voice.

“So you see, Mr. Roark, though it is to be a religious edifice, it is also more than that. You notice that we call it the Temple of the Human Spirit. We want to capture--in stone, as others capture in music--not some narrow creed, but the essence of all religion. And what is the essence of religion? The great aspiration of the human spirit toward the highest, the noblest, the best. The human spirit as the creator and the conqueror of the ideal. The great life-giving force of the universe. The heroic human spirit. That is your assignment, Mr. Roark.”

Roark rubbed the back of his hand against his eyes, helplessly. It was not possible. It simply was not possible. That could not be what the man wanted; not that man. It seemed horrible to hear him say that.

:smile:

Granted, Ivo van Hove is a bit different, but I think Stoddard would have been comfortable with the post modern Roark in the play, where glorifying the human spirit is a woman having a massive orgasm in a pool of her own blood.

Like I said, I think these folks got the meaning of the core story wrong.

:smile:

Michael

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Israel is the only nation that is forced to give up land won in a defensive war , over and over .

The biggest issue in Israel is the weak Israeli leadership in my view . Weak leaders listening to Jews in Beverly Hills , Florida , NYC , Toronto etc . These folks are the biggest issue not really supporting Israel . Jews outside of Israel telling the Israelis to deal with the Palestinians when they have no idea whats what . Also , they preach Israeli restraint when their kids go to Europe to chill and Israelis kids go to fight war .

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marc I agree, some JINO's are even worse than that...OPENLY anti-Israel, 5th columnists of the worse kind.

And that's the real irony... among the most despicable Jews are Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky.

It's not blood... it's values.

Greg

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marc I agree, some JINO's are even worse than that...OPENLY anti-Israel, 5th columnists of the worse kind.

Oh yeahhhhh !!! Agreed , how about Bobby Fischer !!!!!!! Remember he said something like I am not an anti semite , I love Arabs !!!!!!!

Look , bottom line though is I travelled a lot through out the Middle East and the reality is that most people wake up in the am like I do , like good folks on this board do , like even our banned poster does . We awake , and want to take care of our family and our friends and loved ones - we want to live .

Arabs, Jews , Christians , Muslims , etc all want the same thing . Its the fringe ones that cause all the damage . Teaching kids in Gaza that Jews are rats , snakes and evil - well its not the kids fault at all .

The day the Arab states vote , this will all be over . People want to live more than glorifying standing in front of a missile . These poor folks in these countries are not the issue . The issue is the drug dealing Syrians in the Bekka Valley , The King of Saudi Arabia , the weak Jewish leader who allows him to come to Tel Aviv in an Israeli helicopter for surgery , etc .

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marc I agree, some JINO's are even worse than that...OPENLY anti-Israel, 5th columnists of the worse kind.

Yes ! Please lets include in the list our own Henry Kissenger who said in the 6 day war , when BEGGED by Golda Meir to send ammunition " Let them bleed some more " , and the motherF----- waited until the armies of 5 nations crossed the entire country and meet in the middle .

Then as Golda had a nervous breakdown , and the army was able to start fighting back as they needed a few days to mobilize . So they decided to fight not in Israel as to enter their countries and within days destroyed most of the infrastructure in those 5 countries and march towards all their capitals .

Then the US stepped in and told them to stop . Then the Soviets said they had nuclear subs outside Israel ready to fire , then the world stepped in , then Israel was forced to stop , then the Israelis were forced to give back land in a defensive war as no nations are ever required to do .

Lovely .

Anyway , lets get back to talking about the lovely Hamas and their rights . Sorry

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I say it is a matter of intent. It is not Israels fault for having Iron Dome that intercepts almost all incoming rockets. The intent is to kill as many Israeli people as possible indiscriminately. I say if HAMAS sends 800 rockets Israel should send 1600 back every day. See how many rockets they want to send after a week of that.

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marc I agree, some JINO's are even worse than that...OPENLY anti-Israel, 5th columnists of the worse kind.

Yes ! Please lets include in the list our own Henry Kissenger who said in the 6 day war , when BEGGED by Golda Meir to send ammunition " Let them bleed some more " , and the motherF----- waited until the armies of 5 nations crossed the entire country and meet in the middle .

Then as Golda had a nervous breakdown , and the army was able to start fighting back as they needed a few days to mobilize . So they decided to fight not in Israel as to enter their countries and within days destroyed most of the infrastructure in those 5 countries and march towards all their capitals .

Then the US stepped in and told them to stop . Then the Soviets said they had nuclear subs outside Israel ready to fire , then the world stepped in , then Israel was forced to stop , then the Israelis were forced to give back land in a defensive war as no nations are ever required to do .

Lovely .

Anyway , lets get back to talking about the lovely Hamas and their rights . Sorry

Israel is the only nation that has to sue for peace after it has -won- a war.

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Krauthammer talking sense. In WaPo at that.

Moral clarity in Gaza
By Charles Krauthammer
July 17, 2014
The Washington Post

From the article:

Rarely does international politics present a moment of such moral clarity. Yet we routinely hear this Israel-Gaza fighting described as a morally equivalent “cycle of violence.”

. . .

Apologists for Hamas attribute the blood lust to the Israeli occupation and blockade. Occupation? Does no one remember anything? It was less than 10 years ago that worldwide television showed the Israeli army pulling die-hard settlers off synagogue roofs in Gaza as Israel uprooted its settlements, expelled its citizens, withdrew its military and turned every inch of Gaza over to the Palestinians. There was not a soldier, not a settler, not a single Israeli left in Gaza.

And there was no blockade. On the contrary. Israel wanted this new Palestinian state to succeed. To help the Gaza economy, Israel gave the Palestinians its 3,000 greenhouses that had produced fruit and flowers for export. It opened border crossings and encouraged commerce.

The whole idea was to establish the model for two states living peacefully and productively side by side. No one seems to remember that, simultaneous with the Gaza withdrawal, Israel dismantled four smaller settlements in the northern West Bank as a clear signal of Israel’s desire to leave the West Bank as well and thus achieve an amicable two-state solution.

This is not ancient history. This was nine years ago.

And how did the Gaza Palestinians react to being granted by the Israelis what no previous ruler, neither Egyptian, nor British, nor Turkish, had ever given them — an independent territory? First, they demolished the greenhouses. Then they elected Hamas. Then, instead of building a state with its attendant political and economic institutions, they spent the better part of a decade turning Gaza into a massive military base, brimming with terror weapons, to make ceaseless war on Israel.

Where are the roads and rail, the industry and infrastructure of the new Palestinian state? Nowhere.


This whole article bears reading.

I believe a lot of people will be surprised at what Krauthammer is talking about--the actual information, not his opinion--since the policy of the mainstream news has been to blank it out for years (barring selective flash-in-the-pan surges) and rewrite history by selective focus.

The mainstream press is being embarrassed by this, too. It is one of the reasons I believe WaPo even has Krauthammer on it's staff--to give the illusion that it has no bias, that it is objective.

But the mainstream press is now paying a high price. And it's treatment of Israel is an excellent case-study as to why. The moral clarity Krauthammer talked about in his article is just too obvious to the average reader to spin, even for the enormous amount of talent in the mainstream press.

Every good story has a reveal. And this mainstream press one is no exception. Longstanding consumers of the mainstream press are now realizing what it has been doing and they don't like it.

The mainstream press has been a public information gatekeeper for far too long. It will either switch to being a provider of information instead of a gatekeeper, or, with outfits like Glenn Beck and others, ambitious entrepreneurs will see a juicy business opportunity and they will gradually replace it. Nobody forces any customer to consume the work of the newcomer entrepreneurs. This is the market at work.

So actually, that process has already started.

Michael

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I do find it interesting how so many different people of different stripes feel they have "standing" to hold strong opinions on Israel, and Israel's relationship to the Palestinians. People who have not a whit of interest in how the Ukrainians deal with seperatists or where boundry lines are drawn seem to have very specific notions about the Jews should and should not do, in relation to their neighbors.

Why is this? Why is almost nobody an agnostic when it comes to Israel, the Jews, and their neighbors?*

I know one tempting answer, at least for Americans, is to say that we give them a lot of $$ each year in foreign aid, etc. But we give a TON of money to Egypt, and I know of no American who actually gives much of a shit what happens to Egypt, who the Muslim Brotherhood is, who is in charge over there, or much of anything else about that country. So there must be something more than mere foreign aid.

*I am excluding Loving Christian People like Greg here, who are interested in Israel mainly because they are pining for the "End Times" when the Valley of Armagaeddon will flow with blood up to everybody's ass cheeks, when Jesus will come down from the clouds and allow the killing of a bunch of others, and then condemn a bunch of people to eternal torment for eternity, all in expression of his "love" for humanity. :laugh:

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marc I agree, some JINO's are even worse than that...OPENLY anti-Israel, 5th columnists of the worse kind.

Yes ! Please lets include in the list our own Henry Kissenger who said in the 6 day war , when BEGGED by Golda Meir to send ammunition " Let them bleed some more " , and the motherF----- waited until the armies of 5 nations crossed the entire country and meet in the middle .

Then as Golda had a nervous breakdown , and the army was able to start fighting back as they needed a few days to mobilize . So they decided to fight not in Israel as to enter their countries and within days destroyed most of the infrastructure in those 5 countries and march towards all their capitals .

Then the US stepped in and told them to stop . Then the Soviets said they had nuclear subs outside Israel ready to fire , then the world stepped in , then Israel was forced to stop , then the Israelis were forced to give back land in a defensive war as no nations are ever required to do .

Lovely .

Anyway , lets get back to talking about the lovely Hamas and their rights . Sorry

The 6-day war was in 1967. What you are describing happened--what?--6 years later.

Israel would have gained nothing by continuing its assault on the surrounded Egyptian army in Egypt proper and the U.S. did it a favor by telling it to stop.

That Israel had expanded into the Sinai--occupying it--actually made it vulnerable to the initial Egyptian assault across the canal. The ratio between population, the size of land to be defended and length of borders has a lot to do with effective defensibility. The size of Israel is both an essential vulnerability and a strength.

This war--the one you are actually talking about--left Israel much stronger, especially because Jordan jumped into it and lost what Israel and its Jews greatly coveted: access to the Western Wall.

Another strength and weakness of Israel is it's full of emotionalized, nationalistic with the ethnic-religious twist hot-heads like yourself--and you are religious here, never mind God--some high up in political-military command and control--who might go off the deep end in some Gotterdammerung when all else seems lost. That apparently almost happened in 1973, when Israel prepared to use nuclear weapons in an obvious way and, in response, the U.S.--that is Nixon--told the military to start a massive re-supply airlift to Israel using giant C-5 cargo planes and never mind using up their own reserves. With these supplies Israel turned the war around in its own favor. Israel had made itself weak, which led to the war, by pretending its defensive line along the Suez Canal was impregnable and therefore Israel itself was. Not true.

--Brant

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*I am excluding Loving Christian People like Greg here, who are interested in Israel mainly because they are pining for the "End Times" when the Valley of Armagaeddon will flow with blood up to everybody's ass cheeks, when Jesus will come down from the clouds and allow the killing of a bunch of others, and then condemn a bunch of people to eternal torment for eternity, all in expression of his "love" for humanity. :laugh:

While funny, that is not an accurate representation of my view. :smile:

The world is constantly coming to an end... It ends when we do.

The only "end times" are when each of us meets our own inevitable death.

People are able to freely choose to evade the moral truth of their life...

...but that clever devious intellectual charade comes to its end when they come to theirs. :wink:

Greg

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...God knows what Obama could have done/not done...

I think the proper potential presidential name for your argument should be Albert "we grow tobacco" Gore.

That might be an even more frightening administration. At least O'biwan can deliver a speech.

A...

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