moralist

fasting linked to healing...

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Doctors need not go to medical school. If compelled by the state that's another form of state licensing. Schools suing for fraud--go to school in Massachusetts, practice in Oregon? If a doctor says he graduated from Harvard medical school, get on the phone and call Harvard to check. Insurance companies likely would have their own certifications. If you, the doctor, aren't any good they won't sell you insurance. Etc.

--Brant

licensing of professions keeps people out of them reducing competition: doctors and barbers and lawyers are easy out of free market hypotheticals, but the reason airplane travel is so safe is uniform federal certification of planes and pilots so, Houston, the way to a glorious free-market-solution world is gonna be bumpy--the big problem is it's the road you can travel both ways on and the way things are generally going is the wrong way

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Doctors need not go to medical school. If compelled by the state that's another form of state licensing. Schools suing for fraud--go to school in Massachusetts, practice in Oregon? If a doctor says he graduated from Harvard medical school, get on the phone and call Harvard to check. Insurance companies likely would have their own certifications. If you, the doctor, aren't any good they won't sell you insurance. Etc.

--Brant

licensing of professions keeps people out of them reducing competition: doctors and barbers and lawyers are easy out of free market hypotheticals, but the reason airplane travel is so safe is uniform federal certification of planes and pilots so, Houston, the way to a glorious free-market-solution world is gonna be bumpy--the big problem is it's the road you can travel both ways on and the way things are generally going is the wrong way

What form of certification would you suggest? Or should we just to to someone who calls himself a doctor and hope for the best?

Most people untrained in either medicine or science would have little basis for judging the competence of a doctor.

This is especially the case in the U.S. where American schooling and training in STEM subjects is just about the worst in the industrialized world.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Doctors need not go to medical school. If compelled by the state that's another form of state licensing. Schools suing for fraud--go to school in Massachusetts, practice in Oregon? If a doctor says he graduated from Harvard medical school, get on the phone and call Harvard to check. Insurance companies likely would have their own certifications. If you, the doctor, aren't any good they won't sell you insurance. Etc.

--Brant

licensing of professions keeps people out of them reducing competition: doctors and barbers and lawyers are easy out of free market hypotheticals, but the reason airplane travel is so safe is uniform federal certification of planes and pilots so, Houston, the way to a glorious free-market-solution world is gonna be bumpy--the big problem is it's the road you can travel both ways on and the way things are generally going is the wrong way

What form of certification would you suggest? Or should we just to to someone who calls himself a doctor and hope for the best?

Most people untrained in either medicine or science would have little basis for judging the competence of a doctor.

This is especially the case in the U.S. where American schooling and training in STEM subjects is just about the worst in the industrialized world.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Let the free market decide. Most doctors aren't all that good anyway. It's easier to find a very good dentist than a very good doctor--that's because the results are immediate for the dentistry while a general practitioner doctor can take years to kill you. (I'm more comfortable with the specialists albeit with some serious reservations [in terms of medical knowledge I'm 80% closer to actual medicine (and drugs) than most people, which is not the same thing as knowing 80% of what doctors know--I don't: it's likely no one doctor knows 10% of what doctors know and I wouldn't claim more than 2% except when it comes to the very basics such as washing your hands before seeing the next patient or sterile technique, etc., and never think your doctor knows all that much about the drugs he's prescribing for you].)

--Brant

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How about some form of private or free market certification. Rather like Underwriter's Lab which is not a government agency.

That's what I was talking about. Having a diploma or certificate or whatever it would be called from a school that turns out quality doctors would be an advantage to a doctor.

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Most people untrained in either medicine or science would have little basis for judging the competence of a doctor.

1. What is the doctor's success rate? This does not require any expertise or judging.

2. What diplomas or certificates does the doctor have? And from what schools or certificate services?

3. Consumer advocates and testimonials. When I buy a computer or a hard drive, I have no expertise but I learn what the experts say about various options and I learn from user experiences.

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Most people untrained in either medicine or science would have little basis for judging the competence of a doctor.

I see that quite differently, Bob.

Just like any other business, the finest advertising a doctor could ever have are his patients. In 35 years I've never spent one penny on advertising and never needed to. Personal recommendations from satisfied clients bring in all the work I want.

Greg

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Most people untrained in either medicine or science would have little basis for judging the competence of a doctor.

I see that quite differently, Bob.

Just like any other business, the finest advertising a doctor could ever have are his patients. In 35 years I've never spent one penny on advertising and never needed to. Personal recommendations from satisfied clients bring in all the work I want.

Greg

Those not electrocuted.

--Brant

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Most people untrained in either medicine or science would have little basis for judging the competence of a doctor.

I see that quite differently, Bob.

Just like any other business, the finest advertising a doctor could ever have are his patients. In 35 years I've never spent one penny on advertising and never needed to. Personal recommendations from satisfied clients bring in all the work I want.

Greg

Those not electrocuted.

--Brant

Good one, Brant! :laugh:

Greg

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Right. Word of mouth from uneducated ignorant people. The word of mouth stuff I pay most attention to are negative reports. And yes I ask people whose judgement I trust who their doctor or dentist is. That gives me a rough ideas who I might try. This is still not a detailed professional certification. I suppose reputation counts for something.

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The way modern medicine works, if things get serious with the patient he's sent to a specialist. Some specialists might do double duty as a general practitioner, especially a gastroenterologist or one who specializes in older patients. This is reactive medicine. (The geriatrician might be a serious exception.) The specialist is likely to be competent, but I'd be fearful of oncology and the brain surgeon.

--Brant

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Right. Word of mouth from uneducated ignorant people. The word of mouth stuff I pay most attention to are negative reports. And yes I ask people whose judgement I trust who their doctor or dentist is. That gives me a rough ideas who I might try. This is still not a detailed professional certification. I suppose reputation counts for something.

How educated do they need to be to know whether their tumor is gone? Or they no longer need metformin or insulin for diabetes? Or they no longer have a headache? Or they no longer have polyps in the nose? Or they can do things they couldn't do before?

Like an uneducated farmer is not competent to observe that his cattle are dead, because he is not an expert in genetics.

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Right. Word of mouth from uneducated ignorant people. The word of mouth stuff I pay most attention to are negative reports. And yes I ask people whose judgement I trust who their doctor or dentist is. That gives me a rough ideas who I might try. This is still not a detailed professional certification. I suppose reputation counts for something.

How educated do they need to be to know whether their tumor is gone? Or they no longer need metformin or insulin for diabetes?

More educated than you seem to believe--about medicine. You put up some obvious examples which I deleted from the quote, leaving the not so obvious.

--Brant

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Right. Word of mouth from uneducated ignorant people.

From where did you get the idea that education is in any way related to common sense... from a government school? :laugh:

A doctor's competence is the results they get. Even the uneducated and the ignorant know results when they experience them... and that is the power of personal recommendation.

Greg

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Like an uneducated farmer is not competent to observe that his cattle are dead, because he is not an expert in genetics.

Now that's a great line, Jerry. :smile:

Greg

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