Sign in to follow this  
Ed Hudgins

Obama Endangers Israel

Recommended Posts

My appointment is for later. One more quote. Here are a few headlines from The Times of Israel with my brief comments. It is almost like our Boston marathon bombing happens in Israel every day.

“Jerusalem man accused of trying to blow up apartments.” This homegrown terrorist was messing with the gas lines in several apartment buildings used by Jewish Israelis.

“Bomb goes off outside Israel embassy in Cairo.” No one was reported as being hurt.

“Nefesh B’Nefesh turns immigrants into pioneers. With biggest Aliyah Mega Event ever in NY, group aims to increase North American numbers and move them to the Israeli frontier.”

Americans are continuing to immigrate to Israel, even with the nearly daily strife, covert hostility from the U.S. administration and the threat from Iran.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My appointment is for later. One more quote. Here are a few headlines from The Times of Israel with my brief comments. It is almost like our Boston marathon bombing happens in Israel every day.

“Jerusalem man accused of trying to blow up apartments.” This homegrown terrorist was messing with the gas lines in several apartment buildings used by Jewish Israelis.

“Bomb goes off outside Israel embassy in Cairo.” No one was reported as being hurt.

“Nefesh B’Nefesh turns immigrants into pioneers. With biggest Aliyah Mega Event ever in NY, group aims to increase North American numbers and move them to the Israeli frontier.”

Americans are continuing to immigrate to Israel, even with the nearly daily strife, covert hostility from the U.S. administration and the threat from Iran.

It is a trickle. Most American Jews will not risk more than a tourist visit to Israel.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob wrote:

It is a trickle. Most American Jews will not risk more than a tourist visit to Israel.

end quote

I think the Times article said two thousand Americans attended one presentation by “the movement” but a picture showed about a dozen young people outside the hall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob wrote:

It is a trickle. Most American Jews will not risk more than a tourist visit to Israel.

end quote

I think the Times article said two thousand Americans attended one presentation by “the movement” but a picture showed about a dozen young people outside the hall.

There are about six million American Jews. Two thousand in the gathering. that is 1 in 3000. I am underwhelmed.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the last letter, Rand said:

No one can guard rights, except a government under objective laws.

I would add to that:

No one can guard rights, except decent people who create a government under objective laws.

In a proper society, a rational man doesn’t have to know the government exists, because the laws are clear and he never breaks them. [FHF 72]

This is true... and it is each individual's own personal responsibility to create a proper society around them. And when they do, the government leaves them alone to enjoy their life...

...because the government answers to exactly the same moral laws that they do. :smile:

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Jewish people are NOT a race. We are a People. A culture. An ethnicity.

Jews came in several colors, shapes and sizes.

They also come in many opinions, many of whom do not support the existence of a Zionist state.

EM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's not even good high-school journalism to prejudice one's source prior to making factual points. Whether or not Obama is intelligent or moral in his stance towards Israel should be a conclusion, not a premise.

In any case, the author's factual presentation of the main issue is false: Israel continues to build settlements while, a the same time, talking of negotiating to halt construction. To this end, all Obama is saying offering is common-sense truth: Israel cannot use the threat of future construction as a means of negotiation.

He's also saying, dismantle all the settlements, immediately, or your on your own, with no US assistance. We simply have no rationale for being involved; the support of Israel for sentimental reasons is a luxury we cannot afford, thereby working against our overall regional security, which includes peace with Iran.

That an Iranian general actually said something not nice about Obama is hardly newsworthy.

Lastly, if a Randite wants to write a novel that continues the adventures of John & Dagny, setting it, say, on the Golan Heights, go for it, I say! because their utopian settlement, Dollarland, is overrun by Hamas, and they all die, it's entitles 'Atlas Mugged'..

EM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Jewish people are NOT a race. We are a People. A culture. An ethnicity.

Jews came in several colors, shapes and sizes.

They also come in many opinions, many of whom do not support the existence of a Zionist state.

EM

The most dedicated anti-Semites can be found among secular Jews.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Francisco wrote:

Since there are ways of maintaining law and order and providing for defense without resorting to armed robbery, there is nothing contradictory about living in America while demanding an end to the government's systematic assault on property rights.

end quote

I totally agree. I am not joking at your “fire” Francisco. I am exploring your “do nothing attitude” to whatever is proposed for government to do. How did her philosophy impact Rand's personal life, in her daily actions outside of writing and lecturing? The following letter is illuminating. Ayn Rand backed Dewey and Goldwater, for instance. It appears Reidy is answering other’s letters on Atlantis.

Peter Taylor

But I'm not for doing nothing. In fact, I'm all for those who insist on doing something to do it themselves. You want to help Israel, Mr. Taylor? There are plenty of ways to contribute. Why wait for stingy old Francisco, when you can put your hard earned dollars to work right now?

I have no comment on Rand and Goldwater, Rand and Paterson, Rand and the Libertarian Party, et al. because they are irrelevant to the issue of the legitimacy of taxation.

Francisco wrote:

In fact, the contradiction would be to claim that a free society can be defended through the initiation of force.

end quote

There you go again. Once again you are saying *laws* and taxation are the initiation of force, because if you break them, the sheriff will arrest you. That is the same as the Rational Anarchist position that all government is illegitimate. Because these two positions fail to take reality into account it is akin to saying, “All property is theft.” I am not a pragmatist, but there are shades of gray. One fights for the good but still walks into the voting booth to select the lesser of two evils.

If someone cannot grasp the rather obvious distinction between a government with strictly voluntary financing and a society without any government at all, then this discussion may have exceeded the conceptual limits of its participants.

No matter. In ethics Rand is as clear as Steuben glass: no initiation of force. In political philosophy equally clear: the same moral standards must apply to both the leader and his subjects. Thus with regard to government financing, there can be no ambiguity: all funds must come from voluntary sources. These are incontrovertible facts supported by several essays in The Virtue of Selfishness, from which I've quoted extensively in this thread.

Now if this turns Rand into a rational anarchist, make the best of it.

The difference between the two evils can be enormous and will affect your personal life. An example is: McCain was better than Obama, or Romney was better than Obama. Within our “mixed economy, and mixed up government there is an area of coexistence between the ideal and the everyday. Today, right now, inside our semi free society fight for what is right but do not exile yourself into the “fringe” of the sound bites, “all taxation is theft”, or “all government is illegitimate.” Instead of being an Objectivist activist you become the loner, the guy everyone avoids, the guy at the town hall meeting who gets booed.

I'm not frightened of being booed. I was booed in high school in the sixties when I spoke out against the draft and laws forbidding abortion. I was booed in a college auditorium in the seventies by feminists when I spoke out against censorship of pornography. In the eighties I was booed for speaking out against the presidential campaign of the phony "small government" conservative Ronald Reagan--for exactly the same reasons Rand disliked him.

If I really cared about not being booed I would study public opinion polls more carefully than philosophy, economics and history. And I'd probably sound a lot like Romney or Jeb Bush.

This forum is certainly the place to be pure of heart but that purity should not induce a “do nothing” response to legitimate crises, like an attack on Israel or the Ukraine, voting, obeying the law, etc.

Once again, what's stopping you? The longer you wait to give up your life, time and fortune to the State of Israel, the dimmer their prospects will be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...for it is peoples' own moral weakness that renders them prey of the government they deserve.

Greg

Prove it with objective evidence.

My own life.

It is undeniably objective proof to me, and to no one else. You can find out for yourself simply by giving up blaming others long enough to take an honest look at the just and deserved consequences your own actions set into motion. It is that act of taking full personal responsibility for what your own actions spin into motion that sets you free!

I already performed this little thought experiment and came to the rather startling conclusion that I do not deserve Barack Obama!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I already performed this little thought experiment and came to the rather startling conclusion that I do not deserve Barack Obama!

No decent person -deserves- Barak Obama. He is a misfortune that has befallen this nation.

In a way, the Republicans brought this on themselves. When the economy started to go South the Republicans showered money on the Cronies who caused the problem in the first place.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you seriously think that the introduction is nothing more than that which is restated by the conclusion --and not an intent to prejudice--then you're one dumb motherfucker.

Sincerely, the Bitch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you seriously think that the introduction is nothing more than that which is restated by the conclusion --and not an intent to prejudice--then you're one dumb motherfucker.

Sincerely, the Bitch.

Sez the incapable of critical thinking, master of nothing rote learner, who never made a penny by creating anything and never will but will live off the backs of others smug in the ability to baffle with bullshit. Except it doesn't work here shit for brains, whoever you really are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...for it is peoples' own moral weakness that renders them prey of the government they deserve.

Greg

Prove it with objective evidence.

My own life.

It is undeniably objective proof to me, and to no one else. You can find out for yourself simply by giving up blaming others long enough to take an honest look at the just and deserved consequences your own actions set into motion. It is that act of taking full personal responsibility for what your own actions spin into motion that sets you free!

I already performed this little thought experiment and came to the rather startling conclusion that I do not deserve Barack Obama!

(shrug...) Then your choice to blame Obama for how your life is turning out has obviously given you exactly what you deserve. Your honest comment does serve to highlight the difference between our two approaches to life. Barack Obama doesn't affect the quality of my life like he is affecting yours. This is because the rights I enjoy are not dependent upon what any politician does. Since each of us lives differently, each of us naturally sets into motion completely different consequences.

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I already performed this little thought experiment and came to the rather startling conclusion that I do not deserve Barack Obama!

(shrug...) Then your choice to blame Obama for how your life is turning out has obviously given you exactly what you deserve. Your honest comment does serve to highlight the difference between our two approaches to life. Barack Obama doesn't affect the quality of my life like he is affecting yours. This is because the rights I enjoy are not dependent upon what any politician does. Since each of us lives differently, each of us naturally sets into motion completely different consequences.

Greg

It has "obviously given" me no such thing. "Obviously" would require the existence of objective evidence, which you have fastidiously avoided presenting.

The reason Obama does not affect the quality of your life is because you welcome every one of his actions as something you deserve because of "what you truly are inside."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Francisco wrote:

In fact, the contradiction would be to claim that a free society can be defended through the initiation of force.

end quote

Boiled down to its essentials, your argument is that no governmental actions or outcomes can be discussed WITH YOU because of taxes. The Ukraine? Israel? The military? Government employment’s pay and pensions? Accepting government stipends like Social Security? Repair of our intercontinental roads? To you, the entire federal budget is off the table unless it is agreed that the solution is to say NO to any spending.

We may be in sync as to all of Rand’s philosophy except for the subtopic under Politics I would call “a citizen’s guide to improving and functioning in a mixed economy.” Amending the U.S. Constitution to repeal the income tax could be articulated on a different thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I already performed this little thought experiment and came to the rather startling conclusion that I do not deserve Barack Obama!

(shrug...) Then your choice to blame Obama for how your life is turning out has obviously given you exactly what you deserve. Your honest comment does serve to highlight the difference between our two approaches to life. Barack Obama doesn't affect the quality of my life like he is affecting yours. This is because the rights I enjoy are not dependent upon what any politician does. Since each of us lives differently, each of us naturally sets into motion completely different consequences.

Greg

It has "obviously given" me no such thing.

... in your view of yourself as a helpless victim of Obama ruining your life. Do you have the slightest idea of how self defeating that attitude is? You've just pronounced judgment upon yourself and carried out the sentence you deserve.

In contrast to your victim's view of life... I act as an independent American, because I am the one who is solely responsible for the quality of my own life and no one else.

The reason Obama does not affect the quality of your life is because you welcome every one of his actions as something you deserve because of "what you truly are inside."

The word "welcome" doesn't even enter into the picture, Fred.

The rights I enjoy are not within the power of government to either be granted or withheld. And that becomes a reality solely by the way I live. Galt's Gulch is not just a meaningless prop gratuitously inserted into a novel. It is the ideal of a way of living worthy of our aspiration and emulation.

So it's completely up to you to find the way to live that renders the government irrelevant to the quality of your life. If you want to keep blaming Obama for how your own life turned out, go for it.

"If you closely examine your chains, you will discover they were forged by your own hand."

--Greg :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

65 rockets were fired on Israel over the past two days. If those rockets were landing on Washington DC, what would our response be? Even Francisco might approve of spending a few cents to make them stop. (joke) The IDF (Israeli Defense Force) is fighting with its pinky finger while two hands are tied behind its back.

Peter

From The Times of Israel:

The Israel Air Force struck seven targets in southern Gaza, according to the IDF. Three Palestinians were injured, medical sources in Gaza said. Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas condemned escalating violence, including rocket fire from Gaza. ”We condemn all military escalation, including rockets,” he said at a press conference in Bethlehem with British Prime Minister David Cameron.

His statements came hours after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu criticized Abbas for condemning Israeli airstrikes on the Strip, but not the rocket fire from Gaza.

Early Thursday morning, the IDF reported that two additional rockets were fired from Gaza but landed in open areas within the Strip. Later in the morning, alert sirens sounded in coastal cities of Ashdod and Ashkelon as rockets were fired from the Strip. The Iron Dome system downed one of the rockets over Ashkelon, while two others fell in unpopulated areas, bringing the total of rockets fired on Israel to 65 over the past two days, according to the IDF.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Francisco wrote:

In fact, the contradiction would be to claim that a free society can be defended through the initiation of force.

end quote

Boiled down to its essentials, your argument is that no governmental actions or outcomes can be discussed WITH YOU because of taxes. The Ukraine? Israel? The military? Government employment’s pay and pensions? Accepting government stipends like Social Security? Repair of our intercontinental roads? To you, the entire federal budget is off the table unless it is agreed that the solution is to say NO to any spending.

We may be in sync as to all of Rand’s philosophy except for the subtopic under Politics I would call “a citizen’s guide to improving and functioning in a mixed economy.” Amending the U.S. Constitution to repeal the income tax could be articulated on a different thread.

It's a perfect storm when a weak US President only emboldens Israel's enemies even more. Obama almost rivals Carter for jewhate.

In this year and the next, history will be made...

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I already performed this little thought experiment and came to the rather startling conclusion that I do not deserve Barack Obama!

(shrug...) Then your choice to blame Obama for how your life is turning out has obviously given you exactly what you deserve. Your honest comment does serve to highlight the difference between our two approaches to life. Barack Obama doesn't affect the quality of my life like he is affecting yours. This is because the rights I enjoy are not dependent upon what any politician does. Since each of us lives differently, each of us naturally sets into motion completely different consequences.

Greg

It has "obviously given" me no such thing.

... in your view of yourself as a helpless victim of Obama ruining your life. Do you have the slightest idea of how self defeating that attitude is? You've just pronounced judgment upon yourself and carried out the sentence you deserve.

The judgment I pronounced on myself is that "moral weakness" is absent from "what I truly am inside."

Thus, the theory that my "own moral weakness . . . renders" me "prey of the government deserve" is invalid.

In contrast to your victim's view of life... I act as an independent American, because I am the one who is solely responsible for the quality of my own life and no one else.

And can we rest assured that people with a similar attitude have been able to maintain a high quality of life in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?

After all, folks only get the communism they deserve, right? The undeserving are left in peace. Laissez-faire.

The reason Obama does not affect the quality of your life is because you welcome every one of his actions as something you deserve because of "what you truly are inside."

The word "welcome" doesn't even enter into the picture, Fred.

Who's "Fred"?

The rights I enjoy are not within the power of government to either be granted or withheld. And that becomes a reality solely by the way I live. Galt's Gulch is not just a meaningless prop gratuitously inserted into a novel. It is the ideal of a way of living worthy of our aspiration and emulation.

So it's completely up to you to find the way to live that renders the government irrelevant to the quality of your life. If you want to keep blaming Obama for how your own life turned out, go for it.

"If you closely examine your chains, you will discover they were forged by your own hand."

--Greg :wink:

Great. That means that if you had a swamp on your property you could drain it, and the EPA wouldn't say "boo" because the feds know they'd never be able to take your rights away. They can't. Your rights are protected by who you "truly are on the inside," right?

Perhaps they have a list of those who are free of "moral weakness" and know to leave them alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The judgment I pronounced on myself is that "moral weakness" is absent from "what I truly am inside."

Thus, the theory that my "own moral weakness . . . renders" me "prey of the government deserve" is invalid.

Your complaint of being a helpless victim of unjust government oppression flies in the face of your judgment.

And can we rest assured that people with a similar attitude have been able to maintain a high quality of life in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?

What I say applies right here and right now in America because America was founded on Judeo/Christian values. That fact is what makes this nation exceptional.

Great. That means that if you had a swamp on your property you could drain it, and the EPA wouldn't say "boo" because the feds know they'd never be able to take your rights away. They can't. Your rights are protected by who you "truly are on the inside," right?

Needing to resort to making up imaginary situations doesn't mean anything to me because they're not real.

Perhaps they have a list of those who are free of "moral weakness" and know to leave them alone.

Look... I understand that because the government is oppressing you, it's perfectly natural for you to assume that it oppresses everyone else just like you. But what is missing from your blanket assumption is the understanding of how bureaucracies work. They run on a mixture of arbitrary capricious and unaware combined with incompetence. The larger they grow, the more internally conflicted they become.

And the more internal conflict there is in big fat bloated parasite infested bureaucracies... the more freedom there is for the Americans. Freedom is not just handed to you on a silver platter while you sit on your ass doing nothing except complaining about being a victim. You need to stake your claim to it by your own actions. :smile:

("Fred" is just slang :wink:)

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The judgment I pronounced on myself is that "moral weakness" is absent from "what I truly am inside."

Thus, the theory that my "own moral weakness . . . renders" me "prey of the government deserve" is invalid.

Your complaint of being a helpless victim of unjust government oppression flies in the face of your judgment.

There is no moral weakness in being honest, in telling the truth, in calling out evil. Ayn Rand said, "One must never fail to pronounce moral judgment." I pay taxes because if I refused I'd be placed in a federal cage. It is no different from a man handing over his wallet to an armed thug under the threat of being shot.

And can we rest assured that people with a similar attitude have been able to maintain a high quality of life in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?

What I say applies right here and right now in America because America was founded on Judeo/Christian values. That fact is what makes this nation exceptional.

The Judeo-Christian roots of the country are of no significance if the government of the country routinely violates Commandments six, eight and ten.

Great. That means that if you had a swamp on your property you could drain it, and the EPA wouldn't say "boo" because the feds know they'd never be able to take your rights away. They can't. Your rights are protected by who you "truly are on the inside," right?

Needing to resort to making up imaginary situations doesn't mean anything to me because they're not real.

I suppose it is within the realm of possibility that my belief that the government takes property and liberty away from people who have not initiated force against others is based on my imagination. However, I rather think it's objective reality.

To take just one example, in 2012 over 99,000 people served time in federal prison for drug offenses. My sister was once put into a cage for having marijuana in her purse. Did I just imagine my sister in jail?

Perhaps they have a list of those who are free of "moral weakness" and know to leave them alone.

Look... I understand that because the government is oppressing you, it's perfectly natural for you to assume that it oppresses everyone else just like you. But what is missing from your blanket assumption is the understanding of how bureaucracies work. They run on a mixture of arbitrary capricious and unaware combined with incompetence. The larger they grow, the more internally conflicted they become.

Never have I said that government oppresses everyone equally. The government is a criminal gang and like any other gang operates to enrich its members while exploiting its victims.

And the more internal conflict there is in big fat bloated parasite infested bureaucracies... the more freedom there is for the Americans. Freedom is not just handed to you on a silver platter while you sit on your ass doing nothing except complaining about being a victim. You need to stake your claim to it by your own actions. :smile:

("Fred" is just slang :wink:)

Greg

I do not sit. I am a very active advocate of freedom. In my lifetime I have contributed to the successful efforts to end the draft and legalize gold. On the local level I've helped remove high tax politicians from office.

You must have me confused with Fred.

It's a perfect storm when a weak US President only emboldens Israel's enemies even more. Obama almost rivals Carter for jewhate.

In this year and the next, history will be made...

Greg

What's the problem? Israel's enemies can only harm those who have "moral weakness that renders them prey," right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no moral weakness in being honest, in telling the truth, in calling out evil. Ayn Rand said, "One must never fail to pronounce moral judgment."

If you do that in your own life first... the outside world will graciously acquiesce to what you are inside. Everything you are complaining about on the outside is only a symptom of what you are on the inside, and not the cause.

I pay taxes because if I refused I'd be placed in a federal cage. It is no different from a man handing over his wallet to an armed thug under the threat of being shot.

Why not simply produce enough so that it doesn't matter? Problem solved. :wink:

The Judeo-Christian roots of the country are of no significance if the government of the country routinely violates Commandments six, eight and ten.

The government can only violate Commandments on you personally that you first violate yourself, because it is subject to exactly the same moral laws that you are.

I suppose it is within the realm of possibility that my belief that the government takes property and liberty away from people who have not initiated force against others is based on my imagination.

In America today (standard disclaimer), the government cannot take liberty away from anyone who doesn't piss it away themselves. Why? Because liberty does not come from the government. It comes from God.

However, I rather think it's objective reality.

Thought frequently has nothing to do with objective reality... which is nothing more than the consequences of your own actions.

So until you can make the connection between the objective reality of the just and deserved consequences you are complaining about and your own actions that are causing them... you will never enjoy liberty.

Never have I said that government oppresses everyone equally.

Good. :smile:

Now go learn how to live so that it doesn't oppress YOU.

There is a way. So it's totally up to you whether or not you learn for yourself. And if you choose not to learn, you have no one else to blame but yourself.

What's the problem? Israel's enemies can only harm those who have "moral weakness that renders them prey," right?

Yes that's right.

Israel's moral strength is the only thing that prevents it from becoming prey of the Jewhaters.

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Alice, Lareen, Lauren, Benjamin, Sandy, Elaine, and Linda. Stay out of Saudi Arabia. You might be arrested and stoned unless you recant your name.

From the Times of Israel. Saudi Arabia bans parents from naming their children the following:

Malaak (angel) Abdul Aati Abdul Naser Abdul Musleh Binyamin (Arabic for Benjamin) Naris Yara Sitav Loland Tilaj Barrah Abdul Nabi Abdul Rasool Sumuw (highness) Al Mamlaka (the kingdom) Malika (queen) Mamlaka (kingdom) Tabarak (blessed) Nardeen Sandy Rama (Hindu god) Maline Elaine Inar Maliktina Maya Linda Randa Basmala (utterance of the name of God) Jibreel (angel Gabriel) Abdul Mu’een Abrar Iman Bayan Baseel Wireelam Nabi (prophet) Nabiyya (female prophet) Amir (prince) Taline Aram Nareej Rital Alice Lareen Kibrial Lauren

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this