Why would a Constitutional citizen need anything more than a "pop-gun"...

[Selene]

hmm I don't know...

Nothing to see here...move along...

http://www.thecalifornian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013312180046&gcheck=1&nclick_check=1

Still, those commenting on The Californian’s Facebook page questioned the need.

“It could be used to deliver a whole bunch of shut the hell up to the citizens of this fair town,” Cliff Pilcher said.

“Run-flat tires, armor windows and a machine gun turret, really,” Ron Cabreros said. “Those are not cheap to replace. Who's gonna pay for that, tax payers [sic] like you and me ... I would rather pay higher sales tax to hire more cops ...”

Others, however, jumped to the Police Department’s defense.

“Even the maintenance costs over 20 years will be worth it and will not be much more than they pay for their current obsolete vehicle, so they kind of off set [sic],” Kevin Patrick Skinner said. “If your police department had purchased a ($)600,000 vehicle for this purpose you would complain that they were wasting tax dollars. It seems like your public service members used a very prudent and cost effective way to add to the security of your community.”

Maybe this would be the reason that a free Constitutional citizen might desire to "bear arms..."?

A...

[syrakusos]

A society where the police lose contests of strength is a failed state.

The question is not what tools the police have, but the legal constraints on their use. That is a matter of culture.

I do agree that the Bigger Gun Argument fails to approach these problems in the most intelligent and creative ways. When Buddhist monks carrying valuables were attacked by bandits, they did not get bigger swords; they invented karate and jujitsu. The problem of immobilizing an aggressor was briefly studied in the 1970s, but lost attention. Policing is run on the Soviet Agriculture model, so the results are sub-optimal. But it is better to be inefficient than non-existent.

You could probably build one of your own for much less: some steel sheets, a diesel engine, those run-flat tires,... all of it is COTS: commercial-off-the-shelf. Then you could sleep at night.

[Selene]

A society where the police lose contests of strength is a failed state.

The question is not what tools the police have, but the legal constraints on their use. That is a matter of culture.

I do agree that the Bigger Gun Argument fails to approach these problems in the most intelligent and creative ways. When Buddhist monks carrying valuables were attacked by bandits, they did not get bigger swords; they invented karate and jujitsu. The problem of immobilizing an aggressor was briefly studied in the 1970s, but lost attention. Policing is run on the Soviet Agriculture model, so the results are sub-optimal. But it is better to be inefficient than non-existent.

You could probably build one of your own for much less: some steel sheets, a diesel engine, those run-flat tires,... all of it is COTS: commercial-off-the-shelf. Then you could sleep at night.

Solid advice Michael.

It also establishes that we all can be much more potent, with ingenuity and the technology available, than we ever dreamed of.

A...

[Robert Baratheon]

A society where the police lose contests of strength is a failed state.

It's important to clarify with whom the police are competing. It's appropriate that they should be able to outgun small groups in order to fulfill their policing duties. The trend of local police departments maintaining "street tanks" for full-fledged combat scenarios is troubling.

[Selene]

A society where the police lose contests of strength is a failed state.

It's important to clarify with whom the police are competing. It's appropriate that they should be able to outgun small groups in order to fulfill their policing duties. The trend of local police departments maintaining "street tanks" for full-fledged combat scenarios is troubling.

A society where the police lose contests of strength is a failed state.

It's important to clarify with whom the police are competing. It's appropriate that they should be able to outgun small groups in order to fulfill their policing duties. The trend of local police departments maintaining "street tanks" for full-fledged combat scenarios is troubling.

A society where the police lose contests of strength is a failed state.

It's important to clarify with whom the police are competing.

How so?

[moralist]

A society where the police lose contests of strength is a failed state.

It's important to clarify with whom the police are competing. It's appropriate that they should be able to outgun small groups in order to fulfill their policing duties. The trend of local police departments maintaining "street tanks" for full-fledged combat scenarios is troubling.

The police engaging in an "arms race" is only an indicator of a degenerating society with increasingly rotten moral values. DHS has also been arming itself to the teeth. This is why I will never live in a densely populated urban area... so as to avoid becoming collateral damage.

Greg