Honest Drunken Miserable Question

[studiodekadent]

Caveats:

1: I've had a few drinks (bourbon and vodka, for the record).

2: I'm not feeling particularly happy.

3: Sometimes every single human being has a bad day.

With all of these in mind, please answer the following question honestly:

Am I really unlikeable?

I know I'm eccentric. I'm weird. I have many non-Objectivist friends, although I find that in general they often have Objectivist-friendly values.

Still, sometimes I feel alienated and get a bit miserable.

And everyone has bad days from time to time. So please keep in mind I might just be dealing with temporary emotional vulnerability.

But really... am I really difficult to like? Is my style of relating to people so.. difficult and unpleasant? Are my attempts to understand people's personal contexts and experiences guilt-inducing?

Maybe I just don't get people or I don't have feelings or whatever but... well... is talking with me the equivalent of rubbing one's face with sandpaper?

All answers appreciated. The more honest the better.

[Ellen Stuttle]

Andrew,

Did someone tell you all that stuff about you?

Doesn't seem true to me. I don't know you of course, except through reading your posts on this list, but you seem quite likeable to me.

Ellen

[studiodekadent]

Andrew,

Did someone tell you all that stuff about you?

Not exactly, but yes, I'm reacting to a conversation I had a few hours ago

Doesn't seem true to me. I don't know you of course, except through reading your posts on this list, but you seem quite likeable to me.

Ellen

Thank you Ellen!

I've seen your posts over years here and you've always come across as likeable and intelligent to me as well.

[Guyau]

I've always liked you, Andrew. You have been an intelligent delight here. I only know you from here, and of course meeting someone in person gives a new apprehension.

I enjoy through the years getting finally to see a philosopher I have read speak in person. Thereafter, I always read their work with their voice and personality in mind. Usually, I have found people at least as likable in person as in press. Not always.

Bourbon and vodka? Yuk.

[BaalChatzaf]

Caveats:

1: I've had a few drinks (bourbon and vodka, for the record).

2: I'm not feeling particularly happy.

3: Sometimes every single human being has a bad day.

With all of these in mind, please answer the following question honestly:

Am I really unlikeable?

I know I'm eccentric. I'm weird. I have many non-Objectivist friends, although I find that in general they often have Objectivist-friendly values.

Still, sometimes I feel alienated and get a bit miserable.

And everyone has bad days from time to time. So please keep in mind I might just be dealing with temporary emotional vulnerability.

But really... am I really difficult to like? Is my style of relating to people so.. difficult and unpleasant? Are my attempts to understand people's personal contexts and experiences guilt-inducing?

Maybe I just don't get people or I don't have feelings or whatever but... well... is talking with me the equivalent of rubbing one's face with sandpaper?

All answers appreciated. The more honest the better.

Do you like yourself? That is more important than other people liking you.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Andrew,

Bouts of self-doubt is human. Even Rand had them.

We live in waves, not straight lines.

You just proved you've got a pulse. Be happy. Seriously

It could be a lot worse. For instance, you could never have these course-correction phases and turn into a royal asshole.

You're a good dude, Andrew. I know I like you a lot.

Michael

[jts]

A dog took a liking to me and I had a hard time getting rid of the son of a bitch.

With a few practical exceptions (employer, landlord), I usually don't give a rat's ass whether people like me. And I have difficulty understanding why being liked is important to some people, apart from practical exceptions.

[Robert Baratheon]

Andrew,

From the limited information in your profile, it's safe to say that, at a minimum, we have a lot in common.

I could have written your post any number of nights when I was in college, feeling socially frustrated and lonely. I knew I had some kind of social problem that other people didn't have, but at the same time I could never quite put a finger on it. I'd make friends and acquaintances easily enough at first, but then as I got more comfortable with them and the barriers came down, they'd start slipping away and I'd get frustrated. At the same time, I kept getting into conflicts with people, but each conflict seemed justified at the time for this reason or other, and I brushed it off as there just being a lot of difficult people in the world. I wasn't wrong about that much, but what I didn't see was that my behavior was as much to blame as theirs was.

A chance occurrence saved me from a life of constant frustration and loneliness, which was, after going through most of the other titles on the audio book shelf in my college library, I happened to take out How to Win Friends and Influence People (audio version) on a whim and listen to it in the car on my way to classes in the morning and evenings. I got a difficult-to-hear but much-needed dose of reality from that book and that was the turning point for me.

Forget most of the self-help and get-rich-quick bullshit you hear about today - most of it is a book and lecture-tour racket patterning itself on the valuable insights of Carnegie, who is the real deal who started it all. Don't listen to the people here telling you that there is no problem with yourself either, which is implicitly just telling you to keep suffering. You deserve to be happy, but the world isn't going to change for you, so that means taking things into your own hands and making some big personal changes.

Approach the problem skeptically and scientifically, because that's how Carnegie approaches it. The book isn't a sermon; it's a textbook and guide manual on how to be genuinely liked by others and get along with them, just as you would read a chemistry book on how molecules are composed and interact with each other. It has real-life examples and problems that are fascinating to read through. As those who read the book quickly realize, it's not about manipulation or being fake either - it's realizing the concrete things you do that drive other people away and learning how to correct them. This isn't The Secret being showcased on Oprah; it's more like an episode of Kitchen Nightmares for your personality, social life, and career.

Do yourself a major favor and check the book out of a library today, buy it, or if you're so technically inclined, download it online. I like the audio version personally because you can listen on a jog or a long car ride. Please do this and report back. I hope you get your ass kicked by it, because that was the best thing that ever happened to me.

[anthony]

Andrew: You mean online? Who knows anybody in this cyber-unreality? "Likeable", up close and personal, is complex enough, but online one can only catch glimpses of who or what a person is.

How honest and truthful is one's character - how attractive his personality, are left frustratingly out of reach. All one can do is join the dots and believe, or take at face value what you glean.

Without the continuity of contact and consistent (or contradictory) 'messages' a flesh and blood person shows, communicating online is over much dependent on how straight they are attempting to be, and how much good faith they have. Short of that, we just have to assume the best until otherwise discovered.

Personally, I find it too challenging to put myself across, so I stick to the ideas, largely. (Me and FaceBook are chalk and cheese.) Also, to me, little is more alienating than an open forum

But yeah, you seem likeable! I'd have a long chat with you any day.

(And eccentric is fine.)

[studiodekadent]

I've always liked you, Andrew. You have been an intelligent delight here. I only know you from here, and of course meeting someone in person gives a new apprehension.

I enjoy through the years getting finally to see a philosopher I have read speak in person. Thereafter, I always read their work with their voice and personality in mind. Usually, I have found people at least as likable in person as in press. Not always.

Bourbon and vodka? Yuk.

Stephen,

You'd probably be horrified if you saw me speak in person, but hey, maybe you'd find me entertaining! I appreciate the feedback and the work of yours I have read (admittedly not nearly enough) has always been challenging and insightful.

In my defense the bourbon and vodka was always very separate!

Do you like yourself? That is more important than other people liking you.

I agree entirely. I'm just having an unpleasant day which has made me miserable about my likeability. Believe me that I wouldn't change to make myself more likeable. That would be moral treason!

Andrew,

Bouts of self-doubt is human. Even Rand had them.

I know. Thank you for the encouragement.

We live in waves, not straight lines.

You just proved you've got a pulse. Be happy. Seriously

But having a pulse lessens by Goth Cred! (note that I'm being sarcastic for humor purposes)

It could be a lot worse. For instance, you could never have these course-correction phases and turn into a royal asshole.

You're a good dude, Andrew. I know I like you a lot.

Thank you Michael. I appreciate the encouragement greatly.

A dog took a liking to me and I had a hard time getting rid of the son of a bitch.

With a few practical exceptions (employer, landlord), I usually don't give a rat's ass whether people like me. And I have difficulty understanding why being liked is important to some people, apart from practical exceptions.

Well, the issue arose in the context of a pleasant acquaintance with someone that I believed liked me and whom I know likes some of the stuff I produce. So it is a matter of sustaining values since said pleasant acquaintance has resulted in many positive exchanges.

Andrew,

From the limited information in your profile, it's safe to say that, at a minimum, we have a lot in common.

Well clearly we should talk more!

I could have written your post any number of nights when I was in college, feeling socially frustrated and lonely. I knew I had some kind of social problem that other people didn't have, but at the same time I could never quite put a finger on it. I'd make friends and acquaintances easily enough at first, but then as I got more comfortable with them and the barriers came down, they'd start slipping away and I'd get frustrated. At the same time, I kept getting into conflicts with people, but each conflict seemed justified at the time for this reason or other, and I brushed it off as there just being a lot of difficult people in the world. I wasn't wrong about that much, but what I didn't see was that my behavior was as much to blame as theirs was.

A chance occurrence saved me from a life of constant frustration and loneliness, which was, after going through most of the other titles on the audio book shelf in my college library, I happened to take out How to Win Friends and Influence People (audio version) on a whim and listen to it in the car on my way to classes in the morning and evenings. I got a difficult-to-hear but much-needed dose of reality from that book and that was the turning point for me.

Forget most of the self-help and get-rich-quick bullshit you hear about today - most of it is a book and lecture-tour racket patterning itself on the valuable insights of Carnegie, who is the real deal who started it all. Don't listen to the people here telling you that there is no problem with yourself either, which is implicitly just telling you to keep suffering. You deserve to be happy, but the world isn't going to change for you, so that means taking things into your own hands and making some big personal changes.

Approach the problem skeptically and scientifically, because that's how Carnegie approaches it. The book isn't a sermon; it's a textbook and guide manual on how to be genuinely liked by others and get along with them, just as you would read a chemistry book on how molecules are composed and interact with each other. It has real-life examples and problems that are fascinating to read through. As those who read the book quickly realize, it's not about manipulation or being fake either - it's realizing the concrete things you do that drive other people away and learning how to correct them. This isn't The Secret being showcased on Oprah; it's more like an episode of Kitchen Nightmares for your personality, social life, and career.

Do yourself a major favor and check the book out of a library today, buy it, or if you're so technically inclined, download it online. I like the audio version personally because you can listen on a jog or a long car ride. Please do this and report back. I hope you get your ass kicked by it, because that was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Thank you for the advice. Its appreciated.

Andrew: You mean online? Who knows anybody in this cyber-unreality? "Likeable", up close and personal, is complex enough, but online one can only catch glimpses of who or what a person is.

How honest and truthful is one's character - how attractive his personality, are left frustratingly out of reach. All one can do is join the dots and believe, or take at face value what you glean.

You make a very good point. Online friendships obscure so much... vocal tone, body language etc.

But yeah, you seem likeable! I'd have a long chat with you any day.

(And eccentric is fine.)

The sentiment is most mutual. I'd gladly talk to you any time!

Oh man... you know the stereotype that Objectivists don't care about cheering people up and have no feelings? This threat disproves it so wonderfully. Please excuse me while I indulge in all the warm and fuzzy feelings...

[Mikee]

Geez. I think you're a hundred times more likeable than I am. I'm somewhere between Bob Kolker and a rabid badger on my bad days. I've never been much for drinking, none at all now, but I remember a couple of times in the past...

Once, on Christmas break a couple of months after my first wife left, home alone, started drinking boilmakers. I call this "clear-reset", when you're really down, drink yourself into unconsciousness. When you wake up and after the one week healing process you're much calmer. The problem comes somewhere in between when you start drinking and pass out. Disconnect the phones and internet service before you start. Else the embarrassment may last a lifetime. I know.