Carlos Castaneda

[moralist]

Just for the reality record...most snakes are not "lethally poisoness."

Second, snakes are not "slick" or "slippery," they are quite dry in terms of touch.

It's also unclear why he feels snakes are "deceitful" and "deceptive" more than any other animal.

It's not my feeling, Robert. For thousands of years the snake has been an archetype representing evil... but who knows, in another thousand years the archetype could be the lawyer.

Greg

[Serapis Bey]

Just for the reality record...most snakes are not "lethally poisoness."

Second, snakes are not "slick" or "slippery," they are quite dry in terms of touch.

It's also unclear why he feels snakes are "deceitful" and "deceptive" more than any other animal.

It's not my feeling, Robert. For thousands of years the snake has been an archetype representing evil... but who knows, in another thousand years the archetype could be the lawyer.

Greg

OH!! Greg takes a shot!

nice one

[moralist]

Just for the reality record...most snakes are not "lethally poisoness."

Second, snakes are not "slick" or "slippery," they are quite dry in terms of touch.

It's also unclear why he feels snakes are "deceitful" and "deceptive" more than any other animal.

It's not my feeling, Robert. For thousands of years the snake has been an archetype representing evil... but who knows, in another thousand years the archetype could be the lawyer.

Greg

OH!! Greg takes a shot!

nice one

Exhibit A: The government is INFESTED with lawyers.

I rest my case.

Greg

[Robert Baratheon]

It's not my feeling, Robert. For thousands of years the snake has been an archetype representing evil... but who knows, in another thousand years the archetype could be the lawyer.

The snake has served as a symbol of healing and rebirth far longer than Christians have used it as a symbol for evil. It's almost as if such symbolism is completely arbitrary!

As the 10-year caretaker of a very gentle python that has never harmed anybody, this is a deeply PERSONAL issue for me.

[Selene]

Exhibit A: The government is INFESTED with lawyers.

I rest my case.

Greg

Greg raises an excellent question here.

A United States Supreme Court nominee does not require that a "Justice" be a licensed attorney, in order to be proposed by the Executive branch of our limited Constitutional republic.

I have had the experience of working with a few non-attorney justices who were either elected, or, appointed, and, they rendered high quality decisions.

Heinlein points out a concept in Stranger In A Strange Land, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranger_in_a_Strange_Land] regarding a "fair witness."

One of the central characters, Jubal Harshaw, is an attorney.

In 1962, many of us were craving ideas that would lead to a truly restricted government with maximum power vested in the individual citizen as per the US Constitution.

Heinlein begins exploring the possibilities.

A...

Post Script:

Robert, in Stranger In A Strange Land, was there not a really erotic woman with a python?

[Selene]

Wow, I forgot how great this book was, and is.

In the preface for the re-issued book, Virginia Heinlein writes

The given names of the chief characters have great importance to the plot. They were carefully selected:

Jubal

means "the father of all,"

Michael

stands for "Who is like God".

Continuing:

• Jubal Harshaw — popular writer, lawyer, and doctor, now semi-retired to a house in the Poconos northwest of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Harshaw's age is never given but is probably at least 80 by indirect indications. When Ben Caxton disappears, Jill takes Mike to Harshaw to defend his rights, but succeeds only when the authorities threaten Mike. Harshaw himself is addressed as "Father" by Mike in the book's later portions, and comes to perceive himself as such after Mike's death.
• Anne — (no last name given) oldest and tallest of three female secretaries to Harshaw. Has total recall and Fair Witness standing (see Cavendish above).

Quite similar to Greg's Castenada pal...

[Robert Baratheon]

It's foolish to make sweeping statements about a profession with millions of people in it. Enough said.

[moralist]

It's not my feeling, Robert. For thousands of years the snake has been an archetype representing evil... but who knows, in another thousand years the archetype could be the lawyer.

The snake has served as a symbol of healing and rebirth far longer than Christians have used it as a symbol for evil. It's almost as if such symbolism is completely arbitrary!

Not arbitrary... driven by context. The term "snake in the grass" is not an accident, as reduced visibility is when they can be the most dangerous. In a similar manner people who do evil also lie in wait like a snake in the grass for the opportunity to prey on the unaware.

Numbers 21:9 "And Moses made a serpent of bronze and put it on a pole, and if a serpent had bitten any man, when he looked to the serpent of bronze with a steady and absorbing gaze, he lived.

That's the origin of the icon in the blue medical symbol.

As the 10-year caretaker of a very gentle python that has never harmed anybody, this is a deeply PERSONAL issue for me.

... unless it regards you as its food. Then it's literally a dead eyed cold blooded killer just as many other animals are.

It's fitting that you would speak on behalf of snakes, and I'm glad you have the opportunity.

Greg

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

It's foolish to make sweeping statements about a profession with millions of people in it. Enough said.

Heh.

Like arbitrators (albeit, I suspect not millions) or wealthy people (albeit this is not a profession)?

(I didn't look further...)

Michael

[moralist]

Wow, I forgot how great this book was, and is.

In the preface for the re-issued book, Virginia Heinlein writes

The given names of the chief characters have great importance to the plot. They were carefully selected: Jubal means "the father of all," Michael stands for "Who is like God".

Continuing:

• Jubal Harshaw — popular writer, lawyer, and doctor, now semi-retired to a house in the Poconos northwest of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Harshaw's age is never given but is probably at least 80 by indirect indications. When Ben Caxton disappears, Jill takes Mike to Harshaw to defend his rights, but succeeds only when the authorities threaten Mike. Harshaw himself is addressed as "Father" by Mike in the book's later portions, and comes to perceive himself as such after Mike's death.
• Anne — (no last name given) oldest and tallest of three female secretaries to Harshaw. Has total recall and Fair Witness standing (see Cavendish above).

Quite similar to Greg's Castenada pal...

Carlos' title was "Nagual", and the cult members often referred to him by that name.

Greg

[Selene]

Carlos' title was "Nagual", and the cult members often referred to him by that name.

Greg

What was the understanding of what it meant?

Or, the direct translation?

In Mesoamerican folk religion, a Nagual or Nahual (both pronounced [na'wal]) is a human being who has the power to magically turn him- or herself into an animal form: most commonly a donkey, turkey, or dog,^[1] but also other and more powerful animals such as the jaguar and puma.

Such a Nagual is believed to use his powers for good or evil according to his personality.^[2] Specific beliefs vary, but the general concept of nagualism is pan-Mesoamerican. Nagualism is linked with pre-Columbian shamanistic practices through Preclassic Olmec depictions which are interpreted as humans transforming themselves into animals. The system is linked with the Mesomerican calendrical system, used for divination rituals. The birth date often determines if a person will be a Nagual. Mesoamerican belief in tonalism, wherein all humans have an animal counterpart to which their life force is linked, is also part of the definition of nagualism.^[3] In English the word is often translated as "transforming witch", but translations without the negative connotations of the word witch would be "transforming trickster" or "shape shifter".^[4]

[Robert Baratheon]

Heh.

Like arbitrators (albeit, I suspect not millions) or wealthy people (albeit this is not a profession)?

(I didn't look further...)

Michael

Michael,

I didn't make any sweeping statements about the types of people who become arbitrators. I know full well there are a wide variety of people who enter that profession. I made an informed statement about the way the arbitration system functions in the United States under the law. Beyond that, I explained specifically why the outcome of the U.S. arbitration system can be no other than it is. Will you acknowledge that's a bit different than claiming all lawyers are reprehensible people?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Will you acknowledge that's a bit different than claiming all lawyers are reprehensible people?

RB,

I will not acknowledge anything to you about you telling others what to think.

People have opinions about lawyers. Generally not good ones.

Every heard of lawyer jokes?

Michael

[Robert Baratheon]

Numbers 21:9 "And Moses made a serpent of bronze and put it on a pole, and if a serpent had bitten any man, when he looked to the serpent of bronze with a steady and absorbing gaze, he lived.

That's the origin of the icon in the blue medical symbol.

Greg

A seemingly plausible theory, Greg. However, in fact, it's the Rod of Asclepius, from Greek mythology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius

[moralist]

People have opinions about lawyers. Generally not good ones.

And that's putting it mildly, Michael.

I simply expressed my opinion and that's all it is. Nothing more nothing less.

Greg

[moralist]

Carlos' title was "Nagual", and the cult members often referred to him by that name.

Greg

What was the understanding of what it meant?

Or, the direct translation?

In Mesoamerican folk religion, a Nagual or Nahual (both pronounced [na'wal]) is a human being who has the power to magically turn him- or herself into an animal form: most commonly a donkey, turkey, or dog,^%5B1%5D but also other and more powerful animals such as the jaguar and puma.

Such a Nagual is believed to use his powers for good or evil according to his personality.^%5B2%5D Specific beliefs vary, but the general concept of nagualism is pan-Mesoamerican. Nagualism is linked with pre-Columbian shamanistic practices through Preclassic Olmec depictions which are interpreted as humans transforming themselves into animals. The system is linked with the Mesomerican calendrical system, used for divination rituals. The birth date often determines if a person will be a Nagual. Mesoamerican belief in tonalism, wherein all humans have an animal counterpart to which their life force is linked, is also part of the definition of nagualism.^%5B3%5D In English the word is often translated as "transforming witch", but translations without the negative connotations of the word witch would be "transforming trickster" or "shape shifter".^%5B4%5D

Trickster is close enough to work.

Carlos used the terms "tonal" and "nagual". As he defined them, the tonal was normal waking ordinary everyday life... while the nagual was everything else that came under the classification of non ordinary perception. That included dreams, illusions, visions, fantasies, and hallucinatory dope trips.

Greg

[Ellen Stuttle]

Your inability to answer says it all, Ellen.

Greg

Yeah, answering gibberish sure is difficult.

Ellen

[moralist]

Your inability to answer says it all, Ellen. :wink:Greg

Yeah, answering gibberish sure is difficult.

Ellen

Well, that's your opinion. The question was simple and direct:

Is the design of DNA more sophisticated than the design of any human made machine?

In your opinion it either is, or it isn't. so I can understand your reluctance to admit the obvious, for it would reveal a truth.

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

Your inability to answer says it all, Ellen. :wink:Greg

Yeah, answering gibberish sure is difficult.

Ellen

Well, that's your opinion. The question was simple and direct:

Is the design of DNA more sophisticated than the design of any human made machine?

In your opinion it either is, or it isn't. so I can understand your reluctance to admit the obvious, for it would reveal a truth.

Of course it is. Biology is infinitely more complex than any human invention. 1000 years from now, I dunno.

Perhaps the "reluctance to admit the obvious"--it's a trite truth; I was probably four or five when I figured that one out--is a reluctance to have you jump up and down with joy revelling in your "truth" as revelation. You're the only one here not trying to be rational.

--Brant

[tmj]

Greg

What do you mean when you say "the design of DNA" ? And how is that comparable to man made objects?

[moralist]

Numbers 21:9 "And Moses made a serpent of bronze and put it on a pole, and if a serpent had bitten any man, when he looked to the serpent of bronze with a steady and absorbing gaze, he lived.

That's the origin of the icon in the blue medical symbol.

Greg

A seemingly plausible theory, Greg. However, in fact, it's the Rod of Asclepius, from Greek mythology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius

Which reference is older?

Greg

[moralist]

Of course it is. Biology is infinitely more complex than any human invention. 1000 years from now, I dunno.

Well, that was the obvious point Helen had refused to even acknowledge... and there is a reason for that.

The design and function of DNA is light years more sophisticated than any machine man has ever devised... but note that everyone still possesses the total freedom to irrationally deny the Mind behind the reality, and by their own free will.

This is also by design... for there is absolutely NO coercion in love.

Greg

[Serapis Bey]

Paging Kolker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqckWXeZoa8

[Brant Gaede]

Of course it is. Biology is infinitely more complex than any human invention. 1000 years from now, I dunno.

Well, that was the obvious point Helen had refused to even acknowledge... and there is a reason for that.

The design and function of DNA is light years more sophisticated than any machine man has ever devised... but note that everyone still possesses the total freedom to irrationally deny the Mind behind the reality, and by their own free will.

This is also by design... for there is absolutely NO coercion in love.

Greg

Like I said.

--Brant

good demo

[Robert Baratheon]

Numbers 21:9 "And Moses made a serpent of bronze and put it on a pole, and if a serpent had bitten any man, when he looked to the serpent of bronze with a steady and absorbing gaze, he lived.

That's the origin of the icon in the blue medical symbol.

Greg

A seemingly plausible theory, Greg. However, in fact, it's the Rod of Asclepius, from Greek mythology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius

Which reference is older?

Greg

Difficult to say. The religions of the world borrow heavily from each other and much of their historical accuracy is questionable.

None of this is relevant, however, because it is well documented that the medical symbol derives from Greek mythology and not from the Bible (as you stated with certainty).