Who Owns You? You or the Government?

[Ed Hudgins]

In the United States, the people are supposed to be in charge of the government. What do you think is happening today?" This recent national poll question yielded some surprising results. Listen in as Will and Ed discuss some of the ramifications and join the conversation by leaving a comment below.

[BaalChatzaf]

In the United States, the people are supposed to be in charge of the government. What do you think is happening today?" This recent national poll question yielded some surprising results. Listen in as Will and Ed discuss some of the ramifications and join the conversation by leaving a comment below.

As V said: The people should not have to fear the government. It is the government that should fear the people.

[jts]

As V said: The people should not have to fear the government. It is the government that should fear the people.

Government does fear the people. That's why government puts down people who oppose tyranny.

[syrakusos]

I could not find the poll cited in the comments.

Here

http://www.foxnews.com/official-polls/index.html

or here

http://www.foxnews.com/archive/author/dana-blanton/index.html

Also, speaking to the point, the question was not "Who SHOULD be in control?" It is easy to see that 88% of Americans recognize the present condition, without necessarily endorsing it. As for the other 8%, either they are Whig theoreticians or just plain clueless.

The real question is: Has the shutdown of the Federal government affected you?

On a final note, I am not sure of the arithmetic. I thought that to be 95% confident with +/-3% error, you needed over 1000 samples, like 1054 or 1056... (It's been a while since I did the math.) So, with 900 samples the poll is not at the highest level of confidence.

Methodology Notes:

The Fox News poll is based on landline and cell phone interviews with approximately 900 randomly chosen registered voters nationwide and is conducted under the joint direction of Anderson Robbins Research (D) and Shaw & Company Research ®. For the total sample, it has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. When necessary, minor weights are applied to age, race and gender variables to bring the sample into conformity with the most reliable demographic profiles. Fox News polls are not weighted by political party. Results from Fox News polls before February 2011 were conducted by Opinion Dynamics Corp.

http://www.foxnews.com/official-polls/index.html

[Ed Hudgins]

Here's the link:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2013/10/03/fox-news-poll-voters-support-obamacare-delay-disapprove-congress/

[Peter]

Sean Hannity was saying that ten percent of the revenues coming in daily to the government could service the debt and default would never happen unless The Obamanation decided not to pay our obligations.

Peter

[Ed Hudgins]

Probably right. The political problem would be that Social Security checks would either not go out or would go out with only a percentage of their value. Of course, my complaint is that Republicans were too politically stupid to figure out how to confront Obama effectively. Early in the year they might have actually submitted budgets for the various government agencies to House committees, passed them on the floor and then sent them to the Senate, one by one. It would be tough for Senate Democrats to vote against an otherwise normal bill to fund Defense, Commerce, etc. Of course, the Republicans would hold back funding for HHS and Obamacare.

Or the GOP could have done good grassroots work with all those losing insurance under Obamacare, especially in swing states with Democrat Senators.

But politically, Republicans can be just so stupid.

[caroljane]

Thomas Sowell wrote recently that the Republicans failed by not translating their "Beltwayspeak" into plain messages for the average American about their goals and tactics contra Obamacare.

Even if explained plainly however, it is possible that many average Americans would still not like the message , particularly the nonRepublicans.

[syrakusos]

Probably right. The political problem would be that Social Security checks would either not go out or would go out with only a percentage of their value.

I do not understand. I thought that Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid were self-funding and separately funded. They are independent of the budget. Or am I wrong about that?

[moralist]

So the poll says:

88% believe government is in charge of people

8% believe people are in charge of government

I'm happy to belong to the 8%.

I am in charge of the government's role in my life because I am in charge of myself. The government can only be in charge of those who fail to be in charge of themselves. Self governance is a uniquely American value. The government does not need to govern the self governed, because they do not need the government.

Greg

[BaalChatzaf]

So the poll says:

88% believe government is in charge of people

8% believe people are in charge of government

I'm happy to belong to the 8%.

I am in charge of the government's role in my life because I am in charge of myself. The government can only be in charge of those who fail to be in charge of themselves. Self governance is a uniquely American value. The government does not need to govern the self governed, because they do not need the government.

Greg

You can believe anything you want to. The government has you outgunned.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[moralist]

So the poll says:

88% believe government is in charge of people

8% believe people are in charge of government

I'm happy to belong to the 8%.

I am in charge of the government's role in my life because I am in charge of myself. The government can only be in charge of those who fail to be in charge of themselves. Self governance is a uniquely American value. The government does not need to govern the self governed, because they do not need the government.

Greg

You can believe anything you want to. The government has you outgunned.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I can understand why you would say that, Baal.

Because of your own personal experience with the government,

it's natural to assume that the experience of others would be the same as yours.

Greg

.

[BaalChatzaf]

So the poll says:

88% believe government is in charge of people

8% believe people are in charge of government

I'm happy to belong to the 8%.

I am in charge of the government's role in my life because I am in charge of myself. The government can only be in charge of those who fail to be in charge of themselves. Self governance is a uniquely American value. The government does not need to govern the self governed, because they do not need the government.

Greg

You can believe anything you want to. The government has you outgunned.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I can understand why you would say that, Baal.

Because of your own personal experience with the government,

it's natural to assume that the experience of others would be the same as yours.

Greg

.

And in most cases I wold be right.

By the way, it is a fact that the government outguns the citizens. However in an asymmetric war that does not mean the citizens would lose necessarily. Look at Viet Nam. The locals beat us using pungi stakes and crude hand dug tunnels.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Ed Hudgins]

Michael - Social Security receipts go to the Treasury and the SS Administration gets IOU's on their books from the Treasury. The Feds spend it all and borrows 60 cents for ever dollar it spends. There is no Al Gore "Lock box" or account containing money that SS can draw on. Just IOUs. So if the Feds have have $100 in cash from all sources and must pay 50 cents for interest on borrowing plus 40 cents in SS benefits plus 20 cents for Medicare/Medicaid, plus whatever amount to cover everything else, the Feds will have to cut back on something.

[moralist]

So the poll says:

88% believe government is in charge of people

8% believe people are in charge of government

I'm happy to belong to the 8%.

I am in charge of the government's role in my life because I am in charge of myself. The government can only be in charge of those who fail to be in charge of themselves. Self governance is a uniquely American value. The government does not need to govern the self governed, because they do not need the government.

Greg

You can believe anything you want to. The government has you outgunned.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I can understand why you would say that, Baal.

Because of your own personal experience with the government,

it's natural to assume that the experience of others would be the same as yours.

Greg

.

And in most cases I wold be right.

You may be, Baal...

...because it's highly likely that the majority of people live like you do and so their relationship to the government is similar to yours.

However, there are those who order their lives differently from yours. So for them their experience of government is completely different from yours, because they relate to the government in a completely different manner than you do.

And this leads to my point: Personal experience of the effects of government are NOT uniform.

For example: Right after the Northridge earthquake in '94 my wife and I got out of state calls from friends and relatives worried that we were devastated by the catastrophe. That's because they watched the television news which only showed the locations of greatest destruction. People naturally assumed that destruction was uniform, when the truth was that it was NOT in the least. We were laughing during the quake. It was a joke. And before the police could get their shit together enough to start blocking off areas, we were joyriding our bicycles down the middle of the Santa Monica Freeway. Needless to say, we're looking forward to the next one!

By the way, it is a fact that the government outguns the citizens. However in an asymmetric war that does not mean the citizens would lose necessarily. Look at Viet Nam. The locals beat us using pungi stakes and crude hand dug tunnels.

I know about Vietnam. I was there. The US government is not the enemy. The only real enemy is ourselves and how we live our lives.

Greg

[Peter]

Stossel is on Fox.

[moralist]

Stossel is on Fox.

Thanks for the heads up... I need to wait a day or so until it's on youtube because I don't have a network television connection.

Greg

[Peter]

Greg wrote:

Thanks for the heads up... I need to wait a day or so until it's on youtube because I don't have a network television connection.

end quote

Grumble. My Ambien hasn’t kicked in yet. No network TV? That is weird. My youngest daughter has the most advanced phone on earth and does not own a computer! Or a TV. I pity you, Greg, if the lights go out like on that show called “Revolution, ” (which may be on that, ther' youtube.) We all may go back to sitting around at the country store telling stories and going to barn dances for entertainment and old fashioned “spooning,” i.e., meeting members of the other sex (or to be PC, the same sex, if that’s what some of the newly primitized like.)

I had to stop watching Stossell to run an errand. Youtube? I have watched a few short videos on it but never a TV show.

Peter

[caroljane]

I am again between TV providers and getting only free reruns, and I never loved Raymond in the first place, in fact I can hardly stand him. On the plus side, My Punjabi is improving, and Inderpreet really does a good Don Cherry impression.

[moralist]

No network TV? That is weird. My youngest daughter has the most advanced phone on earth and does not own a computer! Or a TV. I pity you, Greg, if the lights go out like on that show called “Revolution, ” (which may be on that, ther' youtube.) We all may go back to sitting around at the country store telling stories and going to barn dances for entertainment and old fashioned “spooning,” i.e., meeting members of the other sex (or to be PC, the same sex, if that’s what some of the newly primitized like.)

We haven't watched network television for 12 years and don't miss it a bit. Whenever I do happen to see one on, the contrived manipulation is palpable. It's infantilizing and inane and a total waste of money. Anything I want to know about I get from the internet. Just watched Stossel on YouTube on what to cut.. Beckel is a flatulent jackass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8siC7HfQLg

Cut the Department of Education. Leave that to to be controlled locally. Cut the Department of Commerce. Capitalists can take care of their own business. Cut the Department of Agriculture. 85% of their budget is food stamps. Cut Health and Human services. People should take care of their own health since they're the ones who are living in their own bodies.

Talk about infantilization... (jeez...)

Greg