Brant Gaede Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I'm coming to California. Please leave the keys in the truck.--Brantit's easier for me this waydon't forget to gas up(career criminal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I'm coming to California. Please leave the keys in the truck. --Brant it's easier for me this way don't forget to gas up (career criminal) That value alone makes you well qualified and fit for immediate employment in a government job. ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 No Starbucks.. are you a Mormon? No. But I highly respect Mormons because they are generally honest upright businessmen. Starbucks is just a waste of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Starbucks is just a waste of money.Greg,It depends on what you're buying.If it's only coffee and other tangibles, I agree.For some people, Starbucks is an incalculable bargain.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Starbucks is just a waste of money. Greg, It depends on what you're buying. If it's only coffee and other tangibles, I agree. For some people, Starbucks is an incalculable bargain. Michael Good point, Michael. That should have been qualified. A waste of money ~for me~. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Starbucks is just a waste of money. Greg,It depends on what you're buying.If it's only coffee and other tangibles, I agree.For some people, Starbucks is an incalculable bargain.MichaelGood point, Michael.That should have been qualified.A waste of money ~for me~.GregHoly Moley. A flicker of proportion? Will miracles never cease?Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Starbucks is just a waste of money. Greg, It depends on what you're buying. If it's only coffee and other tangibles, I agree. For some people, Starbucks is an incalculable bargain. Michael Good point, Michael. That should have been qualified. A waste of money ~for me~. GregHoly Moley. A flicker of proportion? Will miracles never cease? Ba'al Chatzaf Most all of my comments are qualified with: Everyone is free to choose and gets exactly what they deserve as the result of what they chose. Maybe I need to make a sig out of it. ; ) Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Most all of my comments are qualified with:Everyone is free to choose and gets exactly what they deserve as the result of what they chose.Maybe I need to make a sig out of it. ; )GregThat way when we quote you it disappears!Yes, you should!--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Starbucks is just a waste of money. Greg,It depends on what you're buying.If it's only coffee and other tangibles, I agree.For some people, Starbucks is an incalculable bargain.MichaelGood point, Michael.That should have been qualified.A waste of money ~for me~.GregHoly Moley. A flicker of proportion? Will miracles never cease?Ba'al ChatzafMost all of my comments are qualified with:Everyone is free to choose and gets exactly what they deserve as the result of what they chose.Maybe I need to make a sig out of it. ; )GregThe word "deserve" is troublesome. People surely will experience the consequences of their actions, but it is not clear that the "deserved" what happens to them. The word deserve operates in the area of rewards and punishments. If a 10 mile wide asteroid hits the earth and wipes out human life did we "deserve" to die because we live on this planet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 The word "deserve" is troublesome. People surely will experience the consequences of their actions, but it is not clear that the "deserved" what happens to them. Ok. In your view, people do not deserve the consequences which are set into motion by their own actions... ...and I my view, they do. This clearly defines the difference between the two views. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 The word "deserve" is troublesome. People surely will experience the consequences of their actions, but it is not clear that the "deserved" what happens to them.Ok. In your view, people do not deserve the consequences which are set into motion by their own actions......and I my view, they do.In some case people are unaware of the possible consequences of their doings. If a person is walking on the street (a normal activity) and a hunk of ice falls off an airplane 10,000 above his head and kills him, did he "deserve" to die. Sane people do not reckon that they will be killed by ice falling off airplanes when they go out. Should they stay indoors all the time? Or perhaps people should never go out unless they carry a strong shield above their heads, a super-umbrella as it were. You should see how inappropriate the word "deserve" is in some situations. Ba'al Chatzaf Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 The word "deserve" is troublesome. People surely will experience the consequences of their actions, but it is not clear that the "deserved" what happens to them. Ok. In your view, people do not deserve the consequences which are set into motion by their own actions... ...and I my view, they do.In some case people are unaware of the possible consequences of their doings. When a person steps off of a cliff... ...is the objective reality of hitting the ground altered by their unawareness of the consequences of their own action? Gravity is just one aspect of objective reality. Being utterly impersonal, it is totally unaffected by our thoughts or emotions or words or actions. Gravity can't even be violated. You are obeying its law whether you stand safely on the ground or step off of a cliff. The choice is completely yours... as are the results of your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 It is no use Baal. He will never step out of his bubble where random events do not occur because everything that happens to him is a result of his own actions. Outside the bubble, the cliff might inexplicably crumble under his feet, or an eagle swoop down and grab him, or a sudden tycoon sweep him off his feet. And it would be what he deserved, for stepping outside his bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 If you are walking in a city and a safe falls on your head, I'm not sure I would use the word "deserve."Causality of stuff, sure. But stuff beyond your awareness.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 If you are walking in a city and a safe falls on your head, I'm not sure I would use the word "deserve." Causality of stuff, sure. Of course. It's obvious. But stuff beyond your awareness. Michael Is not a lack of awareness also causal? Even disastrous? It's each individual's own personal responsibility to be properly aware of the physical world around them. Calamities can easily occur from a lapse in awareness... ...daydreaming, distracted, emotionally upset, yakking on a cell phone, texting... Lack of awareness is indeed causal... even to the point of being FATAL. Just for a moment consider what happens BETWEEN walking in the city (........) and a safe hitting your head. It takes PERFECT timing to BOTH be directly under that safe, AND to be completely oblivious to the reality of the safe being drawn rushing towards your head by gravity. I highly recommend any form of non-hypnotic form of quiet still meditation in order to exercise our awareness of the world around us. Exercising our awareness is just as vital to our lives as any other form of physical exercise... maybe even MORE vital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 There is no practical way a person can know if a plane at 20,000 feet has shed a piece of ice that will land on his head. It is impossible for him to predict such a thing. The notion that being hit on the head by a piece of ice falling from a high flying plane is somehow the -fault- of the victim is just plain absurd, dumb, stupid and, oh yes, unjust.And if that poor sod instead stayed at home and a meteorite came through his roof (this his happened, by the way) and killed him dead, then he deserved to die because he stayed at home. Nonnsense!!!!There are things which we simply cannot foresee. We should be cautious concerning the likely unknowns but we have no defense against the unknown unpredictable unknowns. None. Life is inherently risky and we have no guarantees of safety even when we act with utmost prudence.Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Greg,20-20 hindsight is always accurate. But it's a lousy form of prediction.Here's the way I see it. We have much we can control. We have much we can't (starting with the fact we have to die).I'm with you on assigning responsibility about the stuff we can control. I don't think the concept "deserve" even applies to stuff we can't control--sudden natural disasters, infections from unknown sources, etc. Sometime with your observations, I see a mixing of the two. It's your opinion, of course. I don't agree with it when that happens, but you're entitled to your opinion.Here's an example. Do we all deserve to die? I don't mean as inherited guilt from Adam and Eve, either. I mean did you, Greg, ever do anything to deserve to be in a condition where you have to die as part of your very existence? You are going to die, you know. Did you do something to deserve that?I imagine you will have some way to say yes. But I'm your friend. Believe me when I say I don't think you deserve to die. In fact, I'm sure of it. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Stuttle Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 [...] or a sudden tycoon sweep him off his feet.That would be interesting.Ellen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 This business of a bump deserving to be bumped is stale-beer philosophy. It has no head.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Greg, 20-20 hindsight is always accurate. But it's a lousy form of prediction. Being aware of what is going on around you in the real world in the present moment has nothing to do with prediction, even though what you do in this moment does effect every following moment. Here's the way I see it. We have much we can control. We have much we can't (starting with the fact we have to die). While we have to die because we had to be born, we do have control over how we face our death, by how we faced our life. I'm with you on assigning responsibility about the stuff we can control. I don't think the concept "deserve" even applies to stuff we can't control--sudden natural disasters, infections from unknown sources, etc. While we cannot control sudden natural disasters, we do have control of where we are at any given moment, and also in control over what we do during natural disasters. Sometime with your observations, I see a mixing of the two. It's your opinion, of course. I don't agree with it when that happens, but you're entitled to your opinion. Yes. It's just my opinion. And if everyone held the same opinion, there would be nothing to discuss here. ; ) Here's an example. Do we all deserve to die? Yes. We all deserve to experience death simply because we all deserve to experience life. I mean did you, Greg, ever do anything to deserve to be in a condition where you have to die as part of your very existence? Yes. The experience of life itself inherently includes the experience of death. I was born so I will die. And I don't even need to invoke any religious dogma to make that point. ; ) You are going to die, you know. (laughing) Really, Michael. Do you believe that I wouldn't have known unless you told me? Did you do something to deserve that? Yes, of course. How I die will be a deserved consequence of how I live. I imagine you will have some way to say yes. You're absolutely right... and there are many ways to say yes. But I'm your friend. Believe me when I say I don't think you deserve to die. In fact, I'm sure of it. Michael What each of us subjectively thinks or feels about death doesn't enter into it at all. If I didn't deserve to die I wouldn't die. Everyone dies... but perishing is something else entirely. ; ) Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Greg,You're a good man.Not a conceptual thinker (nope, not at all), but a good man.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Greg, You're a good man. Not a conceptual thinker (nope, not at all), but a good man. Michael You're absolutely right, Michael. I'm a doer and not a thinker. ; ) Do you know the movie, Groundhog Day? It addresses the life/death issue beautifully. And about the word "deserve". I use it to denote an experience that is absolutely required to become a better person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Greg,You're a good man.Not a conceptual thinker (nope, not at all), but a good man. MichaelYou're absolutely right, Michael.I'm a doer and not a thinker. ; )Do you know the movie, Groundhog Day? It addresses the life/death issue beautifully. And about the word "deserve". I use it to denote an experience that is absolutely required to become a better person.Man, "the rational animal."--Brant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Greg, You're a good man. Not a conceptual thinker (nope, not at all), but a good man. Michael You're absolutely right, Michael. I'm a doer and not a thinker. ; ) Do you know the movie, Groundhog Day? It addresses the life/death issue beautifully. And about the word "deserve". I use it to denote an experience that is absolutely required to become a better person. Man, "the rational animal." --Brant ? Man... the ~moral~ animal. ; ) Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Man... the ~moral~ animal. ; )GregBoth are moral and and of a piece out of free-willism, but to get to moral in thought and action one needs to think things through, not just go with pleasure-pain a la all those other animals.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now