The Story Wars of Hot Political Issues


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The Story Wars of Hot Political Issues

I'm opening this thread to have a place to post interesting story wars material that crops up.

Story wars are fought with a lot of talent these days, but they lose their punch when examined as propaganda instead of gut message.

I'll be posting the ones I find deserving comment and I invite you to do the same. Later we might be able to categorizes them according to propaganda technique (in Objectivist jargon or otherwise) and use them as examples.

For my part, I will not restrict my examples to the Progressives or left, although I expect to show more from that side simply because they are way out in front in fighting story wars--and they produce some extremely talented stuff.

I'll start with one I found to be clever.

Climate Name Change

http://youtu.be/efAUCG9oTb8

Even though I know how toxic this message is, I had to laugh when I saw it. I wish the other side were as creative. In the current media environment, this kind of crap will sway far more voters than any set of facts ever will.

Or, I should qualify that. If facts are presented creatively against non-facts presented creatively, the facts will win. But if non-facts are presented creatively against facts presented in the normal yawn-fest manner, the non-facts will win. Hands down. It won't even be a contest.

This particular example attempts to shame opponents of the Progressive climate change speculations by linking the names of conservative politicians to actual climate disasters.

The propaganda technique used is presupposition. When a person accepts the premise of naming hurricanes after conservative politicians, even as humor, he automatically accepts the hidden premise (the presupposition) that man-made events cause hurricanes--that is, he runs a serious risk of tacitly accepting it until he is aware of it. The proponents don't even need to present proof. They just say "science" and the viewer takes it as such.

This video was extremely well done. There's even a petition to sign to go along with it (see here). Granted, a formal petition is part of the humor, but as of this posting, over 50,000 people have signed it. And that's not so funny.

Michael

Beware of Michelle Bachman! Heh

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Carol, I prefer to discuss the why and how of what is being done rather than try to play the game of besmirch Glenn, defend Glenn. For the record though, Glenn is not horrified that this is being done

Look Michael, I like and respect you and you know that. Hell, I love you like a brother which as a Stuart you surely are. It is when you appear to not respect my critical thinking, or even critical t

It's a hoot watching people who are all style and zero substance criticizing this masterful use of aesthetics. J

Posted Images

Here's a really cool example of an orchestrated attempt to seed a narrative in the culture through repetition of a buzzphrase:

 

 

In this case, MSNBC did it in such a blatant manner over such a trivial narrative, the Fox people caught them easily and the montage is quite funny.

 

However, in more serious things, this stuff works.

 

It's sad, but it works.

 

Ironically, this particular technique (in modern politics) comes from Newt Gingrich (see here) and Frank Luntz (see here), guys on the right.

 

Michael

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Here's a great example of how a core story operates as the central program of a cybernetic system.

 

A cybernetic system self-corrects to it's central program once it's operation has been disrupted. For instance, an airplane on autopilot (the cybernetic system) can be blown off course, but soon self-corrects. A bigot faced by contrary facts will acknowledge the truth for a moment, but shortly thereafter goes back to the bigoted beliefs as if nothing happened.

 

Notice in the following, the dingbats on The View wanted to believe their core story so bad, they didn't notice the obvious caricature they were presenting--which should have been enough of a red flag to at least make them check their source:

 

 

They are referring to this story:

 

John Hagee Calls For “Prosecuting Women Who Say God’s Name During Intercourse”

by Lea Vat Kens

June 15th 2015

Newslo

 

Newslo is a fake news website like The Onion.

 

I have no doubt the dingbats on The View will feel embarrassed for a moment, but will go back to believing their caricature of Southern Christians without blinking an eye.

 

It would be interesting to find some dingbats on the right who run a caricature core story of leftists in their hearts and make a similar blunder about good-hearted people.

 

For those who want to use this stuff, the cybernetic principle within the core story, not the political leaning, is the universal.

 

If you want to manipulate a person easily, tap into their core story, establish that bond, then have all the fun you want with them because they will usually jump on cue like a trained seal.

 

Or like a dingbat.

 

Michael

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Here's a great example of how a core story operates as the central program of a cybernetic system.

A cybernetic system self-corrects to it's central program once it's operation has been disrupted. For instance, an airplane on autopilot (the cybernetic system) can be blown off course, but soon self-corrects. A bigot faced by contrary facts will acknowledge the truth for a moment, but shortly thereafter goes back to the bigoted beliefs as if nothing happened.

Thanks for the back-of-the-envelope sketch of cybernetics. It's an operative concept with a very broad field of analysis. This excerpt from Wikipedia gives an indication of the scope (footnotes removed):

Concepts studied by cyberneticists include, but are not limited to: learning, cognition, adaptation, social control, emergence, communication, efficiency, efficacy, and connectivity. These concepts are studied by other subjects such as engineering and biology, but in cybernetics these are abstracted from the context of the individual organism or device.

Norbert Wiener defined cybernetics in 1948 as "the scientific study of control and communication in the animal and the machine." The word cybernetics comes from Greek κυβερνητική (kybernetike), meaning "governance", i.e., all that are pertinent to κυβερνάω (kybernao), the latter meaning "to steer, navigate or govern", hence κυβέρνησις (kybernesis), meaning "government", is the government while κυβερνήτης (kybernetes) is the governor or the captain. Contemporary cybernetics began as an interdisciplinary study connecting the fields of control systems, electrical network theory, mechanical engineering, logic modeling,evolutionary biology, neuroscience, anthropology, and psychology in the 1940s, often attributed to the Macy Conferences. During the second half of the 20th century cybernetics evolved in ways that distinguish first-order cybernetics (about observed systems) from second-order cybernetics (about observing systems). More recently there is talk about a third-order cybernetics (doing in ways that embraces first and second-order).

Fields of study which have influenced or been influenced by cybernetics include game theory, system theory (a mathematical counterpart to cybernetics), perceptual control theory, sociology, psychology (especially neuropsychology, behavioral psychology, cognitive psychology), philosophy, architecture, and organizational theory.

Whew!

twoMajorTypesofCyberneticSystem.jpt_.jpg

Edited by william.scherk
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William,

This is my favorite diagram from the Wikipedia article:

06.23.2015-14.06.png

A = Positive feedback

B = Negative feedback

Output = goal (or what I called central program above)

Obviously, positive and negative are in terms of moving toward--or maintaining--the goal.

The only thing I don't like in this diagram is the size of A and B. For normal functioning cybernetic systems, A should be gigantic and B should be tiny. Within human mind cybernetic systems, the core story easily keeps these sizes in place.

Michael

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I have been wanting to write about the story wars and Trump, who is a story paradigm buster of the first order, but I have to get to the following first.

 

I am flabbergasted. Jaw-dropping deer-in-the-headlights frozen.

 

The following video is not wacko stuff. The production values are high, the storytelling is done way too professionally.

 

This is a seed of a story war that I believe will grow quite ugly over time. Probably not directly involving Hitler, but I easily see this thing paving the way in the cultural story wars for a new dictator to arise from Hitler's ashes.

 

 

The full six hour documentary is here. You have to go there because YouTube removed most of it for copyright reasons (allegedly).

 

This is one hell of a great study in how to make a documentary about a controversial subject. Seriously.

 

The use of music, b-roll, coloring old BW footage, etc. is top-notch. I haven't seen the whole thing, but I have little doubt there will be Campbell's hero's journey underlying the overall plot. The most striking thing is that what I have seen so far avoids gotcha kind of arguing and exaggerations typical of wacko stuff. This filmmaker, Dennis Wise, goes for the story gut and is very competent at his craft.

 

I'm really creeped out with this one.

 

Michael

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William,

This is my favorite diagram from the Wikipedia article:

06.23.2015-14.06.png

A = Positive feedback

B = Negative feedback

Output = goal (or what I called central program above)

Obviously, positive and negative are in terms of moving toward--or maintaining--the goal.

The only thing I don't like in this diagram is the size of A and B. For normal functioning cybernetic systems, A should be gigantic and B should be tiny. Within human mind cybernetic systems, the core story easily keeps these sizes in place.

Michael

What is negative feedback?

--Brant

what is positive?

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I have been wanting to write about the story wars and Trump, who is a story paradigm buster of the first order, but I have to get to the following first.

I am flabbergasted. Jaw-dropping deer-in-the-headlights frozen.

The following video is not wacko stuff. The production values are high, the storytelling is done way too professionally.

This is a seed of a story war that I believe will grow quite ugly over time. Probably not directly involving Hitler, but I easily see this thing paving the way in the cultural story wars for a new dictator to arise from Hitler's ashes.

The full six hour documentary is here. You have to go there because YouTube removed most of it for copyright reasons (allegedly).

This is one hell of a great study in how to make a documentary about a controversial subject. Seriously.

The use of music, b-roll, coloring old BW footage, etc. is top-notch. I haven't seen the whole thing, but I have little doubt there will be Campbell's hero's journey underlying the overall plot. The most striking thing is that what I have seen so far avoids gotcha kind of arguing and exaggerations typical of wacko stuff. This filmmaker, Dennis Wise, goes for the story gut and is very competent at his craft.

I'm really creeped out with this one.

Michael

I'm going to Berlin and shoot that paper-hanging son-of-a-bitch!

--Patton

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I am flabbergasted. Jaw-dropping deer-in-the-headlights frozen.

That is not a good sign.

The following video is not wacko stuff. The production values are high, the storytelling is done way too professionally.

I disagree. ISIS makes better videos in terms of production values ...

This is a seed of a story war that I believe will grow quite ugly over time. Probably not directly involving Hitler, but I easily see this thing paving the way in the cultural story wars for a new dictator to arise from Hitler's ashes.

Well, we shall see. The "Hitler Was A Good Guy" propaganda has been gushing out of pipes for some time.

This is one hell of a great study in how to make a documentary about a controversial subject. Seriously.

Seriously? I don't think so. It is not too impressive to these eyes.

The use of music, b-roll, coloring old BW footage, etc. is top-notch. I haven't seen the whole thing, but I have little doubt there will be Campbell's hero's journey underlying the overall plot.

Top notch? Wow.

The most striking thing is that what I have seen so far avoids gotcha kind of arguing and exaggerations typical of wacko stuff. This filmmaker, Dennis Wise, goes for the story gut and is very competent at his craft.

I got not much brain time for Dennis Wise. He is a 'revisionist' and a nut on the subject of the Joo. He thinks the Holocaust was 'exaggerated' or justified, and the entire oeuvre of this dude is to make Hitler look good.

Read some of his interviews. Read some of the reviews which don't celebrate bigotry and Joo Hate but find fault in his reasoning and argument. Read some of the critical commentary on his work. Read some of the material on his site ...

While Churchill and FDR are presented as Saints and even Stalin was proclaimed to be a great man, Germany’s leader and the Germans themselves have been presented as the devil incarnate. We have been told over and over for the last seventy years many different things about Hitler, all bad and many ridiculous.

Many books and claims have been made about the man and many contradict each other, but as long as they portray Hitler as evil they get a good reception by the media. We’re told he was a lowly corporal, a house painter, a homosexual and at the same time a murderer of homosexuals. Then contradicting the house painter claim, they say he was a failed art student, he was so evil that he was incapable of painting a human figure with the proper dimensions.

In truth Hitler was an aspiring art student that was competent, but not good enough to get into the art school in Vienna. He was not a coward as we are often told, but a war hero winning the Iron Cross first and second class, he was gassed at the end of the war and suffered the terrible pain that went with that. He was a heterosexual that had sexual relations and married the love of his life before they both committed suicide to avoid being tortured and murdered by the victorious allies.

He presided over the most remarkable economic recovery of the 1930’s and he was a remarkable military leader. For putting millions of Germans back to work, ending the misery imposed on Germany by its enemies and restoring Germany’s pride his people supported him to the bitter end. No matter the military setbacks or the mass murder of Germany’s civilians by enemy bombers he had the full support of all of Germany and Germany fought virtually the whole world until the bitter end.

This documentary attempts to educate the viewer about the facts regarding Hitler, the war, the holocaust and many other things.

I'm really creeped out with this one.

Me too. But it is just one among many sad and stupid attempts to 'revise' the history of WWII. The racialists and revisionists eat this shit up, which is their wont.

I know you are not touting this film, and not touting its message, and not touting its maker as an especially interesting addition to the field of Hitler Lovers. But you appear to be touting its 'quality' ... which I find a bit odd.

Anyway, I went to look at episode 26, after reading a Reddit AMA with the dude wherein he said the episode contains the credits and sources. I was curious about which footage was 'borrowed,' who scored the music, where particular fact claims are warranted. The entire suite of episodes has been removed.

"Adolf Hitler - The Greatest..." The YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated due to multiple third-party notifications of copyright infringement.
My guess is that the film is full of 'borrowed' materials. If I get to another version of the 'sources' episode, I will make a note.
-- click the image to go to the docco's page featuring Episode 26. The 'production values' are shit. I am interested in finding out if the footage of 'young Hitler' have been 'borrowed' or actually scripted and shot by Wise.
hitler_Credits.png
Edited by william.scherk
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But you appear to be touting its 'quality' ... which I find a bit odd.

William,

I have noticed that your ability to evaluate the emotional impact of a message to someone who doesn't think like you do is limited.

That's not a criticism. It's an observation. I don't find this good or bad, it just is.

So you don't see quality from the same lens I do.

To start with, when you hate or hold contempt for someone (or group), I have noticed you rarely find good things in their culture. You sometimes mention something good, but it is generally tinged with venom--hidden or otherwise. So--I think--the idea of finding good production values in a bigoted Hitler sympathizer (unless alive at the time like, say, Leni Riefenstahl) would be repugnant to you irrespective of what is there.

(Rand had this problem in her own manner once she judged someone morally.)

Take, for example, the coloring of old BW footage. You probably find it cheesy. To a mind open to Wise's kind of message, the times become vivid and current in a manner not experienced before. Hitler himself becomes current, not ancient. This causes a huge emotional impact. You probably find the music overblown. To a mind open to Wise's kind of message, it becomes heroic--down in the gut, not in the cortex.

And so on.

This is top-quality propaganda for a target audience with lots of inroads to independent fellow travellers.

Let's put it this way. I admire you as an intellectual. But I would not put you anywhere near a marketing or propaganda department unless I was trying to sabotage them.

:smile:

btw - I already mentioned the YouTube copyright issue. That is not an issue to Wise's target. Look at how he's growing...

Also, obviously, lots of the footage of young Hitler is staged. Apparently, Wise didn't credit it. I say "apparently" because I haven't seen a lot of this yet.

Michael

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William,

Here's what I'm talking about in terms of quality.

Wise's next film has the following header:

01.02.2016-14.18.png

That, I submit, is normal propaganda fare for this kind of mind, with no chance of appealing to fellow traveller independents. I consider this low quality.

In dialog writing for movies, this is called "on the nose." When an overblown emotion is on the nose like that header, it comes off as cheesy and almost comical to all but the true believer.

I took a look at the first part of this film. The part I saw is not very well done--a typical fringe production.

Wise's Hitler movie will appeal to far more people than this one will. I'm not sure you will understand why, though. Not on a gut level. My guess, based on your writing up to now, is no.

Michael

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Deleted.

Edited by william.scherk
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I'm really creeped out with this one.

Me too. But it is just one among many sad and stupid attempts to 'revise' the history of WWII. The racialists and revisionists eat this shit up, which is their wont.

I know you are not touting this film, and not touting its message, and not touting its maker as an especially interesting addition to the field of Hitler Lovers. But you appear to be touting its 'quality' ... which I find a bit odd.

Anyway, I went to look at episode 26, after reading a Reddit AMA with the dude wherein he said the episode contains the credits and sources. I was curious about which footage was 'borrowed,' who scored the music, where particular fact claims are warranted.

So you don't see quality from the same lens I do.

True.

What are the objective markers of quality in the portions of Wise's Hitler documentary you have watched so far?

Bear in mind that none of the footage was shot by Wise. It is all 'borrowed.' It is somewhat unclear who wrote the music for the production.

Edited by william.scherk
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William,

You are taking this exactly where I imagined you would. This thread is about story wars, not William's hatreds according to his worldview. So I will not be engaging with your leading questions, demands, and temper tantrums. They are not about the storytelling, nor, I am pretty sure, are you even slightly interested in looking at the story war techniques part of this. Also, in one instance, they are about my own possible hidden bigotry, i.e., "Is your mind open to Wise's kind of message?"

I mean, come on. But hatred always leads one to go personal like that--believe as I believe, regardless if the core issue has nothing to do with bigotry, or I will start calling you a bigot.

Heh.

Hatred is hatred is hatred and you hate too much right now to be rational about these things. Is that a put down? Maybe. Just look at that long post of yours. Not you look per se. I already know you won't see what I'm talking about. I mean those who are interested in story impacts on the culture.

Interestingly enough, I belong to a Facebook group called "The Cult of Copy" run by a young copywriting dude named Colin Theriot. He set his group up precisely so he could discuss persuasion techniques without people getting hysterical about the subjects of the persuasion or their personal worldviews (even about copyright). He wanted to see why these things work--all of them from the most subtle to the most sleazy, from marketing to propaganda--and he was having a hard time finding a place where he could discuss this stuff and people didn't start yelling at each other, calling each other names and so on.

I fear you would not do well in that environment, although you and he share a lot more in common philosophically than I do with either of you. (He leans pretty hard left.) Yet I know what he is getting at in that group. I learn a lot there. I am almost convinced you would not. Why? Because I have seen one person after another over there react as you just did, then get pissed and leave or whatever (and take a few hotheads with them). When the flare-ups occur, everybody else stands around scratching their heads before they go back to the topic at hand.

Getting back to the movie, I just saw the parts 3 and 4 (meaning the second half-hour--the segments are 15 minutes a piece). BW is starting to appear and it is starting to look at lot tackier than the first half-hour. The staged parts look like they came from an already produced movie about Hitler because I am starting to detect distinct styles in the different takes. I initially thought Wise did those parts. I don't know yet because I haven't jumped to the end like you have. Also, the trailer was extremely well-produced.

Whether these produced parts were Wise's work, just a mashup, or a mix of the two, I don't know yet. You claim it is mostly mashup (you used different words) but I like to see things for myself, especially when a person making a claim exudes a lot of hatred. Still, I'm starting to think this movie is mostly mashup. Definitely a mix at best.

Those initial parts and trailer had some of the production values I was talking about, however your hatred burns so much, I doubt you will see even this comment as anything other than a favorable outcome of a combat between me and you.

The fact that I am not fighting might be a surprise to you, but I am not. :smile:

The issue for me is story war techniques, not Hitler or the goofy cultures that spun off from the Nazi culture. I fear, because of something I see that you do not see (and, I suspect, refuse to see), a bleed-off from Wise's kind of storytelling will pave the way for bad things to come. But you want to fight the actual story war with me, denigrate the storyteller as if to say he ain't nothing except something to spit on, and pretend that because I don't do this with you, I am somehow complicit with him.

Well, I ain't fighting with you, not because I agree with Wise (I don't). It's because that is not what I am discussing.

So go on and hate if you will. Enjoy the stew.

I have things to learn and analyze...

Michael

EDIT: Jeez, after all this, you delete your post? :smile: I gotta run out right now, so I might delete this post, too. :) If anyone wants to read it, now is a good time. :) Back in a bit...

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How International Jewry declared "Holy War" on Germany

Dennis Wise's excerpt from the documentary introduced to OL by MSK:

Edited by william.scherk
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This thread is about story wars, not William's hatreds according to his worldview. So I will not be engaging with your leading questions, demands, and temper tantrums.

 

We have moved on from William's lack of empathy for 'Hitler Lover' culture. I see pernicious nonsense in Holocaust revisionism, and so do you, I imagine. I haven't yet read any empathetic wisdom on a sub-culture that responds to such as Wise's documentary. 

 

Hatred is hatred is hatred and you hate too much right now to be rational about these things. Is that a put down? Maybe. Just look at that long post of yours. Not you look per se. I already know you won't see what I'm talking about. I mean those who are interested in story impacts on the culture.

 

I deleted the post because it read too crabby and reactive. I sent it to you backstage with a cover. Feel free to take a quote or two for the list, if you like.

 

Getting back to the movie, I just saw the parts 3 and 4 (meaning the second half-hour--the segments are 15 minutes a piece). BW is starting to appear and it is starting to look at lot tackier than the first half-hour. The staged parts look like they came from an already produced movie about Hitler because I am starting to detect distinct styles in the different takes. I initially thought Wise did those parts. I don't know yet because I haven't jumped to the end like you have. Also, the trailer was extremely well-produced.

 

Right. I investigated the documentary -- trying to answer the question of where all the varied types of footage came from. I wanted to know if Wise had shot any of the footage in the docco. He did not. There are no credits for a camera operator or DoP, and no claim of original material (beyond the narration -- and the perhaps the music, though I have read that several of the takedowns were predicated on musical copyright violations). I asked Wise on Twitter where the music came from and I will report back.

I did dispute  'touting' of the production values. I don't see good production values ... which could be credited directly to the filmmaker himself.

 

The psychological assessments, those are fun, but do not advance resolution of any quality dispute.  Simply asking someone to clarify what particular production values they saw which could be ascribed to Wise ... maybe this a peremptory demand, maybe it is hate-filled and irrational, maybe it is a temper tantrum. 

 

Maybe not.   Look at it this way -- I am not the only one reading this thread exchange. Maybe one of those folks is puzzled also. That person might ask themselves, "What does Michael see that I don't see?"  That person might put that question in this thread ... is it a temper tantrum to seek clarification?

 

I think not.  

 

Whether these produced parts were Wise's work, just a mashup, or a mix of the two, I don't know yet. You claim it is mostly mashup (you used different words) but I like to see things for myself, especially when a person making a claim exudes a lot of hatred. Still, I'm starting to think this movie is mostly mashup. Definitely a mix at best.

 

If you are starting to doubt that any of the docco  content was actually shot by the director, I am pleased. The dispute begins to dissolve.

 

The words I used were cognates to  'borrowed.'   I don't think  I was wrong. One could say "used without permission."  The facts are the same. 

 

Those initial parts and trailer had some of the production values I was talking about, however your hatred burns so much, I doubt you will see even this comment as anything other than a favorable outcome of a combat between me and you.

 

Burning Hatred: Well, if you looked at the credits reel I linked to above (click the image), you can see how I came to the conclusion that Wise is a wholesale 'borrower' of other people's products.  If he has been too sloppy to seek permissions to use other people's work to profit himself and his company, then it is no surprise he faces multiple and continuing DCMA challenges. 

 

And if you do finally see my clear if hate-filled initial points ... we both 'win.'  Reality wins. Reason wins. Cake for everybody!

 

The issue for me is story war techniques, not Hitler or the goofy cultures that spun off from the Nazi culture. I fear, because of something I see that you do not see (and, I suspect, refuse to see), a bleed-off from Wise's kind of storytelling will pave the way for bad things to come.

That is more promising. How much is new in this video series? How much is effective outside the  community that eats this shit up?  How does it rate against the hundreds and thousands of Holocaust denial videos already on the market? What makes this one stand out and give you the heebie-jeebies and foresee a rise of a new Hitler or the vague portent of 'bad things to come'?

 

I will find that a very interesting excursion in analysis. What makes this relatively-recent stab at propaganda have greater impact than other Nazi-loving bullshit?  

 

But you want to fight the actual story war with me, denigrate the storyteller as if to say he ain't nothing except something to spit on, and pretend that because I don't do this with you, I am somehow complicit with him.

 

About the 'top-notch' production values you spied in the trailer earlier-- I just didn't see them.  And it looks like you are coming around to my point of view.  

 

For those who haven't made up their minds on who love/hates who, who is irrational about The Joo and Poor Misunderstood Hitler, or who is consumed by bigotry and bias, have a gander at Wise's Twitter feed.  Here is a sample:

 

 

Anyhow, Least said, soonest mended. Leading questions, demands, and temper tantrums, psychological assessments ... these fall by the wayside.

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William,

You are taking this exactly where I imagined you would. This thread is about story wars, not William's hatreds according to his worldview. So I will not be engaging with your leading questions, demands, and temper tantrums. They are not about the storytelling, nor, I am pretty sure, are you even slightly interested in looking at the story war techniques part of this. Also, in one instance, they are about my own possible hidden bigotry, i.e., "Is your mind open to Wise's kind of message?"

I mean, come on. But hatred always leads one to go personal like that--believe as I believe, regardless if the core issue has nothing to do with bigotry, or I will start calling you a bigot.

Heh.

Hatred is hatred is hatred and you hate too much right now to be rational about these things. Is that a put down? Maybe. Just look at that long post of yours. Not you look per se. I already know you won't see what I'm talking about. I mean those who are interested in story impacts on the culture.

Interestingly enough, I belong to a Facebook group called "The Cult of Copy" run by a young copywriting dude named Colin Theriot. He set his group up precisely so he could discuss persuasion techniques without people getting hysterical about the subjects of the persuasion or their personal worldviews (even about copyright). He wanted to see why these things work--all of them from the most subtle to the most sleazy, from marketing to propaganda--and he was having a hard time finding a place where he could discuss this stuff and people didn't start yelling at each other, calling each other names and so on.

I fear you would not do well in that environment, although you and he share a lot more in common philosophically than I do with either of you. (He leans pretty hard left.) Yet I know what he is getting at in that group. I learn a lot there. I am almost convinced you would not. Why? Because I have seen one person after another over there react as you just did, then get pissed and leave or whatever (and take a few hotheads with them). When the flare-ups occur, everybody else stands around scratching their heads before they go back to the topic at hand.

Getting back to the movie, I just saw the parts 3 and 4 (meaning the second half-hour--the segments are 15 minutes a piece). BW is starting to appear and it is starting to look at lot tackier than the first half-hour. The staged parts look like they came from an already produced movie about Hitler because I am starting to detect distinct styles in the different takes. I initially thought Wise did those parts. I don't know yet because I haven't jumped to the end like you have. Also, the trailer was extremely well-produced.

Whether these produced parts were Wise's work, just a mashup, or a mix of the two, I don't know yet. You claim it is mostly mashup (you used different words) but I like to see things for myself, especially when a person making a claim exudes a lot of hatred. Still, I'm starting to think this movie is mostly mashup. Definitely a mix at best.

Those initial parts and trailer had some of the production values I was talking about, however your hatred burns so much, I doubt you will see even this comment as anything other than a favorable outcome of a combat between me and you.

The fact that I am not fighting might be a surprise to you, but I am not. :smile:

The issue for me is story war techniques, not Hitler or the goofy cultures that spun off from the Nazi culture. I fear, because of something I see that you do not see (and, I suspect, refuse to see), a bleed-off from Wise's kind of storytelling will pave the way for bad things to come. But you want to fight the actual story war with me, denigrate the storyteller as if to say he ain't nothing except something to spit on, and pretend that because I don't do this with you, I am somehow complicit with him.

Well, I ain't fighting with you, not because I agree with Wise (I don't). It's because that is not what I am discussing.

So go on and hate if you will. Enjoy the stew.

I have things to learn and analyze...

Michael

EDIT: Jeez, after all this, you delete your post? :smile: I gotta run out right now, so I might delete this post, too. :smile: If anyone wants to read it, now is a good time. :smile: Back in a bit...

Really?

--Brant

beat you to it

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How International Jewry declared "Holy war" on Germany

Dennis Wise's excerpt from the documentary introduced to OL by MSK:

As a stand-alone video, I don't think this one will have much impact on the story wars in the mainstream.

Michael

I just saw the 15 minute video (a bit cantankerously, I might add, since, by doing so, I am seeing it out of order in the documentary).

Whew!

Hot stuff!

Weimar Berlin in the 1920's sex and decadence days. I initially knew about this when I was still in Brazil from Peikoff's The Ominous Parallels. Since then, I have have seen things here or there about it, but never dug deeply. I always had difficulty understanding WWI and the aftermath, so, for as titillating as it seemed, I kept putting off deeper inquiry until I knew more. (Now I kinda understand why that war happened.)

Obviously, the filmmaker did not approve of Berlin in the 1920's.

:)

And, from the tone, you can feel he is glad Hitler came along and cleaned the city up.

Like I said, this as a stand-alone video is not a serious part of the story wars. It is one hell of a curiosity, though. :)

Michael

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William,

Michael

EDIT: Jeez, after all this, you delete your post? :smile: I gotta run out right now, so I might delete this post, too. :smile: If anyone wants to read it, now is a good time. :smile: Back in a bit...

Really?

--Brant

beat you to it

http://www.fromtexttospeech.com/output/0419153001451786944/9838353.mp3

Or, with celestial string accompaniment: http://picosong.com/EyCX/

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