The Story Wars of Hot Political Issues


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Carol, I prefer to discuss the why and how of what is being done rather than try to play the game of besmirch Glenn, defend Glenn. For the record though, Glenn is not horrified that this is being done

Look Michael, I like and respect you and you know that. Hell, I love you like a brother which as a Stuart you surely are. It is when you appear to not respect my critical thinking, or even critical t

It's a hoot watching people who are all style and zero substance criticizing this masterful use of aesthetics. J

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Brant,

How does one get away with bribes?

Lies.

All lies are stories.

Think about it.

Michael

In the largest sense you are correct. In the constipated sense most operate in money gets you--for giver and taker--away with it.

--Brant

so, effective stories should convey truth as part of the technique--ergo, you guys are dishonest, here, have your deserved guilt?

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Brant,

Story per se neutral. It is like nuclear energy. You can use it to light up a city or blow it up.

But both take skill.

We have no choice about thinking in stories. That's what we do. But we do have a choice about how to deal with the story trance. And we have a choice about disciplining how we send out stories to others.

Michael

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Michael...Brant:

Precisely why Aristotle's Rhetoric is still valid.


Invention is tied to the rhetorical appeal of logos, being oriented to what an author would say rather than how this might be said. Invention describes the argumentative, persusive core of rhetoric. Aristotle, in fact, defines rhetoric primarily as invention, "discovering the best available means of persuasion." An important procedure that formed part of this finding process was stasis.

If you substituted "story" for Rhetoric, it would make perfect sense.

Aristotle's underlying premise of Rhetoric was that if you gave the "good" the same tools of argument and persuasion, the same "arte" and "techne," that "evil" instinctively avails itself of, the "good" will win.

I am thinking that that is the same point you are making about "stories."

Is that correct?

A...

Post Script:

The above quote is from an amazing site - http://humanities.byu.edu/rhetoric/silva.htm

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Adam, I think Michael is onto something important, even if Aristotle was there first. However, Aristotle ends with outright belief about good vs evil while Rand made a huge mistake about evil's impotence, doing Aristotle one better but in the wrong direction. Nonetheless, Michael will have to load some real ammo or his story-telling methodology won't get off the ground. Now Rand shot some really effective bullets and I wish Michael will soon declaim on just why he thinks she was effective respecting her content and technique and perhaps how she fell short.

Humanity is rolling along to its inevitable future and so far the future's so bright, I gotta wear shades.

--Brant

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Adam, I think Michael is onto something important, even if Aristotle was there first. However, Aristotle ends with outright belief about good vs evil while Rand made a huge mistake about evil's impotence, doing Aristotle one better but in the wrong direction. Nonetheless, Michael will have to load some real ammo or his story-telling methodology won't get off the ground. Now Rand shot some really effective bullets and I wish Michael will soon declaim on just why he thinks she was effective respecting her content and technique and perhaps how she fell short.

Adam, I think Michael is onto something important, even if Aristotle was there first. However, Aristotle ends with outright belief about good vs evil while Rand made a huge mistake about evil's impotence, doing Aristotle one better but in the wrong direction. Nonetheless, Michael will have to load some real ammo or his story-telling methodology won't get off the ground. Now Rand shot some really effective bullets and I wish Michael will soon declaim on just why he thinks she was effective respecting her content and technique and perhaps how she fell short.

Interesting, I was trying to support Michael's argument...

Rhetoric is the study of effective speaking and writing. And the art of persuasion. And many other things.

In its long and vigorous history rhetoric has enjoyed many definitions, accommodated differing purposes, and varied widely in what it included. And yet, for most of its history it has maintained its fundamental character as a discipline for training students 1) to perceive how language is at work orally and in writing, and 2) to become proficient in applying the resources of language in their own speaking and writing. (See rhetorical pedagogy)

Discerning how language is working in others' or one's own writing and speaking, one must (artificially) divide form and content, what is being said and how this is said (see Content/Form). Because rhetoric examines so attentively the how of language, the methods and means of communication, it has sometimes been discounted as something only concerned with style or appearances, and not with the quality or content of communication. For many (such as Plato) rhetoric deals with the superficial at best, the deceptive at worst ("mere rhetoric"), when one might better attend to matters of substance, truth, or reason as attempted in dialectic or philosophy or religion.

Rhetoric has sometimes lived down to its critics, but as set forth from antiquity, rhetoric was a comprehensive art just as much concerned with what one could say as how one might say it. Indeed, a basic premise for rhetoric is the indivisibility of means from meaning; how one says something conveys meaning as much as what one says. Rhetoric studies the effectiveness of language comprehensively, including its emotional impact (see pathos), as much as its propositional content ( see logos). To see how language and thought worked together, however, it has first been necessary to artificially divide content and form.

A...

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Adam,

Rhetoric is more akin to style than narrative. However, when explicit stories are not present in rhetoric, it uses implied stories.

Let's put it this way. Rhetoric is something you can do with stories.

Brant gave me an idea, but I don't have time to do it right now since it will be a long post. However, I want to see how it turns out, so here is what I am going to do.

I am going to build a persuasion story step-by-step off the top of my head using Kendall Haven's 8 items that cause changes in the brain (and some other pre-story steps like defining the audience), maybe layer in Paul Zak's empathy thing to release a good flow of oxytocin, and use a simple universal story template to fill in the gaps and give it proper form. Then flesh it out with some style and metaphors. I will explain what I am doing at each step, then present the message rewritten to include it's new component. That way the reader will witness the message being slowly transformed into a persuasive story.

This is going to be interesting. But I have to do it when I have a block of uninterrupted time.

Michael

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Excellent approach Michael.

I look forward to it.

A...

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Michael has sown the wind.

Now . . .

--Brant

S%29XD6V1802.jpg?format=1000w

The artist calls this "Breath of Nature"

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Michael has sown the wind.

Now . . .

--Brant

S%29XD6V1802.jpg?format=1000w

The artist calls this "Breath of Nature"

Not bad. It looks to be consistent with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics

Perhaps it should be called The Hot Breath of Nature.

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Michael has sown the wind.

Now . . .

--Brant

S%29XD6V1802.jpg?format=1000w

The artist calls this "Breath of Nature"

Not bad. It looks to be consistent with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics

Perhaps it should be called The Hot Breath of Nature.

Here is the kicker Bob, she is the wife of the new Governor of Maryland...a Republican, who never held office before and has a diverse family!!

She is Sourh Korean and an artist..."Md. Gov. Larry Hogan and his Korean-born wife, Yumi, are a historic first couple, of course the dead grey lady neglects to mention that he is a Republican...

http://www.yumihogan.com/

hit her works on the left hand side - there are many of her paintings that I like.

A...

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Yuni does some very interesting stuff.

Out of curiosity Bob, what pulls you to them?

Considering the aspie perceptions that you have described?

A...

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Yuni does some very interesting stuff.

Out of curiosity Bob, what pulls you to them?

Considering the aspie perceptions that you have described?

A...

It is hard to say. I cannot give you a logical reason, but here stuff is complex enough to draw my attention to it, to try to find the underlying pattern or rule. I liked Escher's stuff for the same reason. Structure and complexity. Together they can generate some interesting visual and even musical art.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Yuni does some very interesting stuff.

Out of curiosity Bob, what pulls you to them?

Considering the aspie perceptions that you have described?

A...

It is hard to say. I cannot give you a logical reason, but here stuff is complex enough to draw my attention to it, to try to find the underlying pattern or rule. Also Yuni's stuff suggest motion and flow. Structure, flow and complexity. Together than can generate some interesting visual and even musical art.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Yuni does some very interesting stuff.

Out of curiosity Bob, what pulls you to them?

Considering the aspie perceptions that you have described?

A...

It is hard to say. I cannot give you a logical reason, but here stuff is complex enough to draw my attention to it, to try to find the underlying pattern or rule. I liked Escher's stuff for the same reason. Structure and complexity. Together than can generate some interesting visual and even musical art.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Thanks Bob. That makes complete sense to me.

As you were going through school in the early grades, how were you treated by either the public or private educational system?

A...

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Thanks Bob. That makes complete sense to me.

As you were going through school in the early grades, how were you treated by either the public or private educational system?

A...

The teachers thought I was a bit weird but they were not unkind. The bullies were merciless so I learned how to fight dirty very early. After I dislocated some bully knees and elbows they stopped bothering me. The bullies learned that fighting me one on one was not a good career move.

My classmates labeled me a "brain" which in the 1950's meant no dates and much sniggering. But I learned not to mind that too much.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Yuni does some very interesting stuff.

Out of curiosity Bob, what pulls you to them?

Considering the aspie perceptions that you have described?

A...

It is hard to say. I cannot give you a logical reason, but here stuff is complex enough to draw my attention to it, to try to find the underlying pattern or rule. Also Yuni's stuff suggest motion and flow. Structure, flow and complexity. Together than can generate some interesting visual and even musical art.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Those pictures also have -motion- even though they are standing still. As Spock would say ---- fascinating.

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Yuni does some very interesting stuff.

Out of curiosity Bob, what pulls you to them?

Considering the aspie perceptions that you have described?

A...

It is hard to say. I cannot give you a logical reason, but here stuff is complex enough to draw my attention to it, to try to find the underlying pattern or rule. Also Yuni's stuff suggest motion and flow. Structure, flow and complexity. Together than can generate some interesting visual and even musical art.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Those pictures also have -motion- even though they are standing still. As Spock would say ---- fascinating.

Agreed on the paintings as I think about them when I am out they seem fluid in my mind.

I skipped a year and had to adjust to almost everyone being older by at least a year. I was in the first graduating class of a new high school which drew heavily from two (2) of the top four (4) districts in NY City.

A semi outcast except for classmates and my teams including Randians...

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Thanks Bob. That makes complete sense to me.

As you were going through school in the early grades, how were you treated by either the public or private educational system?

A...

The teachers thought I was a bit weird but they were not unkind. The bullies were merciless so I learned how to fight dirty very early. After I dislocated some bully knees and elbows they stopped bothering me. The bullies learned that fighting me one on one was not a good career move.

My classmates labeled me a "brain" which in the 1950's meant no dates and much sniggering. But I learned not to mind that too much.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Hooray!

You and Barbara Branden! (Because she was Jewish: brains and Jewish, same thing.)

--Brant

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just a quick post without too much comment.

This one deals with how to spread a story by tying into the core stories of the different sides. See these two articles by Ryan Holiday.

EXCLUSIVE: How This Left-Wing Activist Manipulates the Media to Spread His Message

and...

Trading Up The Chain: Mainstream Media Takes Cues from Blogosphere

I don't want to comment too much since this thread is more about story-making techniques, but here is the basic plan.

First, you have to have a website under a pseudonym, say a blog, that has several articles "proving" a lopsided--preferably scandalous--account of whatever agenda you want to promote. Make it a well-told story and note: all articles and stories have to be high quality because they will be read by a lot of intelligent (albeit careless) people at the start. So even though the material is slanted, is has to look good. You have to attack someone for this to work the best of all.

It doesn't matter which side. This is a process, not an ideology.

Now comes the fun (paraphrasing Ryan Holiday from the first article):

1. Set up an anonymous burner email account. (The false identity has to be different than the pseudonym on the site.)

2. Identify people (celebrities and public figures with a polarized political bent) with large Twitter followings, get their personal email addresses.

3. Email them a link to your site and a two-line email about how this is the best site ever and how “surprised” you are they haven’t tweeted it yet.

4. Trade it up the chain until hitting something big. (Trade up the chain basically means crowing about the increasing exposure and people who have signed on as you keep anonymously submitting it higher and higher within the mainstream media pecking order. The gradual exposure will give it an air of credibility.)

5. Identify a conspiracy-friendly quick-to-condemn person with a large audience who hates the thing you are attacking. Think people like Alex Jones, several MSNBC folks and so on. Say you will reveal your anonymity exclusively on his or her program in exchange for an interview. Since there is already an enormous amount of buzz, you will be accepted.

Then the top mainstream shows start talking about you and your story.

For further details and sleazy media routines (that work), see Ryan Holiday's book: Trust Me, I'm Lying: Confessions of a Media Manipulator.

Note that truth is not important to the media in this approach. Truth is irrelevant. The story and the process are the important components.

Michael

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  • 1 month later...

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