Men On Strike ---Has Anyone Heard About This Book, Or, The Author?

[Selene]

And to Adam, in forestallment: I know that the legal system does seriously discriminate against men in many cases of family and divorce matters, and some criminal matters. And some of this is due to "overcorrection" influenced by feminism. But most of it is due to simple fact that the law is reactive and not proactive; it always lags behind the culture, because it must rely on precedent and interpret the letter and the spirit in the light of immediate circumstance as best it may. It is not an evil legal conspiracy engineered by the castrating Monstrous Regiment.

I guess that would have been the same statement to Dred Scott as he sat on a small rise overlooking the Mississippi River, a free man, as he watched the Sheriff and his men walk slowly towards him carrying the slave chains after one of the most despicable decisions in Supreme Court History....

They had come to respect him deeply, and it is said, that the Sheriff wept as he put the shackles on Dred Scott.

That little soliloquy above would have made him feel relieved....

Yes Dred, you know how it is, the Courts are "reactive, not proactive...," so come along now...

A...

[PDS]

And to Adam, in forestallment: I know that the legal system does seriously discriminate against men in many cases of family and divorce matters, and some criminal matters. And some of this is due to "overcorrection" influenced by feminism. But most of it is due to simple fact that the law is reactive and not proactive; it always lags behind the culture, because it must rely on precedent and interpret the letter and the spirit in the light of immediate circumstance as best it may. It is not an evil legal conspiracy engineered by the castrating Monstrous Regiment.

I guess that would have been the same statement to Dred Scott as he sat on a small rise overlooking the Mississippi River, a free man, as he watched the Sheriff and his men walk slowly towards him carrying the slave chains after one of the most despicable decisions in Supreme Court History....

They had come to respect him deeply, and it is said, that the Sheriff wept as he put the shackles on Dred Scott.

That little soliloquy above would have made him feel relieved....

Yes Dred, you know how it is, the Courts are "reactive, not proactive...," so come along now...

A...

Adam:

I think comparing some little weenie boy living in his mom's basement in modern day America with the likes of Dred Scott is little off the mark. And besides, Dred Scott is acknowledged by those who know constitutional law as one our Supreme Court's very worst decisions, so your example actually supports Carol's point.

Doug Bandler's failures at skirt-chasing do not make for much of a "strike", or for much of an historical comparison: "First they came for our little black books..." is not exactly a clarion call to collective action, notwithstanding Dr. Helen's attempt to shoehorn her theme into something that it's not.

Carol is right: the law is reactive and is most certainly not proactive. This doesn't seem like a controversial point. I'm glad the law works this way.

[Selene]

I think comparing some little weenie boy living in his mom's basement in modern day America with the likes of Dred Scott is little off the mark. And besides, Dred Scott is acknowledged by those who know constitutional law as one our Supreme Court's very worst decisions, so your example actually supports Carol's point.

PDS:

It was extreme hyperbole.

However, our organization has seen the emotional wear and tear of the effects of this system which is not getting any better.

1) a mother whose three (3) children that she raised were literally torn from her by a despicable father who raised parent alienation syndrome to a low art;

2) an honor guard Marine weeping in a holding cell as we came to post his bail who was not permitted to see his son for over a year and when he was able to see him the child had been brain washed by a "social service agency" and was a virtual robot around his father;

3) a dentist on Long Island who was falsely accused of molesting his son and by the time it was dismissed, to be "cautious," he was only allowed supervised visitation. He committed suicide.

The list is endless just from out tri-state organization alone. The damaged lives and children is certainly not anywhere near comparable to Dred Scott.

However, it is not a "weenie boy living in his Mother's basement." I am reasonably sure you know I am not that shallow, lol.

A...

[caroljane]

Adam, those examples rend my heart. And they will slowly, so slowly, become part of the precedents that determine the future, reactive laws.

[Selene]

Adam, those examples rend my heart. And they will slowly, so slowly, become part of the precedents that determine the future, reactive laws.

Carol:

We thought the same when my partner and I started F.A.M.I.L.Y., Advocates 1990. It has gotten worse, not better in twenty-three (23) years. It stood for Fathers and Mothers In League for Youth and it was the first gender neutral group ever, to my knowledge, formed on this issue. Our theory was that until women experienced the same traumas from the system, the second wife and the girlfriend change would never happen because the Men's groups were composed of angry misogynists and we couldn't stand them.

We were correct.

However, I agree with you that I am impatient. I hope you are correct.

A...

[caroljane]

O Adam, I hope I am correct too.

You are doing such good, important work.

This is offtopic but I will mention a new friend I have made, he is a resident of a grouphome and learning to control his anger impulses when he is called "Retard". That word really set him off. H e has extreme OCHD and stutters when he talks because his thoughts outstrip his speech abilities.

He likes plants so I have made a value exchange with him, he weeds my tomato bed and can eat tomatoes and sit on my deck.

We talk most evenings, and he tells me how he is learning to control his anger. His speech trips over itself and I often can't understand what he is saying.

I think I undertand who he is however. Hope so anyway.

[Selene]

O Adam, I hope I am correct too.

You are doing such good, important work.

This is offtopic but I will mention a new friend I have made, he is a resident of a grouphome and learning to control his anger impulses when he is called "Retard". That word really set him off. H e has extreme OCHD and stutters when he talks because his thoughts outstrip his speech abilities.

He likes plants so I have made a value exchange with him, he weeds my tomato bed and can eat tomatoes and sit on my deck.

We talk most evenings, and he tells me how he is learning to control his anger. His speech trips over itself and I often can't understand what he is saying.

I think I undertand who he is however. Hope so anyway.

Carol:

Is he in good enough physical shape to run in place for, let's say two or three minutes?

A...

[caroljane]

Sure. WHY?

[Selene]

Sure. WHY?

Sure. WHY?

Sure. WHY?

It was a tactic/method that we developed for students who had a rapid speech pattern,or, impairment which would get to a winded state and then have them immediately either read something,or, talk immediately. It involuntarily forces the person to slow down and essentially acts as a behavior modification because the throat muscles and laryngeal muscles begin to get a memory which will eventually become something that can become automatic.

It works in a pretty high percentage of the cases we tried.

[PDS]

I think comparing some little weenie boy living in his mom's basement in modern day America with the likes of Dred Scott is little off the mark. And besides, Dred Scott is acknowledged by those who know constitutional law as one our Supreme Court's very worst decisions, so your example actually supports Carol's point.

PDS:

It was extreme hyperbole.

However, our organization has seen the emotional wear and tear of the effects of this system which is not getting any better.

1) a mother whose three (3) children that she raised were literally torn from her by a despicable father who raised parent alienation syndrome to a low art;

2) an honor guard Marine weeping in a holding cell as we came to post his bail who was not permitted to see his son for over a year and when he was able to see him the child had been brain washed by a "social service agency" and was a virtual robot around his father;

3) a dentist on Long Island who was falsely accused of molesting his son and by the time it was dismissed, to be "cautious," he was only allowed supervised visitation. He committed suicide.

The list is endless just from out tri-state organization alone. The damaged lives and children is certainly not anywhere near comparable to Dred Scott.

However, it is not a "weenie boy living in his Mother's basement." I am reasonably sure you know I am not that shallow, lol.

A...

Adam: I hope you know I was talking about Big Man Doug Bandler in my reference above.

[caroljane]

Sure. WHY?

Sure. WHY?

Sure. WHY?

It was a tactic/method that we developed for students who had a rapid speech pattern,or, impairment which would get to a winded state and then have them immediately either read something,or, talk immediately. It involuntarily forces the person to slow down and essentially acts as a behavior modification because the throat muscles and laryngeal muscles begin to get a memory which will eventually become something that can become automatic.

It works in a pretty high percentage of the cases we tried.

I will mention it to him. Thanks! Btw |I did not mean to shout Why at you, it was accidental capslock.

I just saw PDS latest comment and he (and you) will be amused to know that Doug Bandler is not even the real name of our favourite swingin bachelor. I mean really, if you are going to choose a nom de hide, would you choose Doug? I know some great Dougs, but still...

He anonymizes because he fears, I can't imagine why, that if his employers knew what he was writing he would lose his job. Sounds pretty Peter Keating to me.

The guy is crazy but not entirely stupid.

[caroljane]

Hey, I get tired of these constant knocks on Mom's basement. My sons lived in my basement until they were driven out by the incessant floods and the empty fridge. Hope of the Leafs #43 lived under Mom and four sisters, and Puckbunnies International reports, or fantasizes, that he is no little weenie at all.

[Selene]

Adam: I hope you know I was talking about Big Man Doug Bandler in my reference above.

PDS:

Actually, it wasn't quite clear. Worse, I have no idea who Doug Bandler is, and, frankly, don't think I wish know him.

However, you were correct to point out the overreach of my comparison and I meant it to draw fire.

A...

[caroljane]

Speaking of the "law's delay", I just remembered reading the Fountainhead and my reaction to the climactic courtroom scene. Coincidentally this was at the time I was considering whether to go for law school. In retrospect it was probably a time I should have realized I was not cut out to be an Objectivist.

I found that scene inappropriately, irresistibly comic. I fell out of the novel's stage set and just saw puzzled jurors, a weary seen-it-all-now judge, and fidgety bailiffs looking at their watches.

Maybe Aglialoro will consider doing a comedy next time. Fountainhead II: The State Appeals.

[PDS]

Speaking of the "law's delay", I just remembered reading the Fountainhead and my reaction to the climactic courtroom scene. Coincidentally this was at the time I was considering whether to go for law school. In retrospect it was probably a time I should have realized I was not cut out to be an Objectivist.

I found that scene inappropriately, irresistibly comic. I fell out of the novel's stage set and just saw puzzled jurors, a weary seen-it-all-now judge, and fidgety bailiffs looking at their watches.

Maybe Aglialoro will consider doing a comedy next time. Fountainhead II: The State Appeals.

I had no such reaction. I found the scene quite moving, especially when Wynand stood up as the verdict was read.

Back in the 1940's, when Rand was writing the book, "courtroom thrillers" were not the cliche they have now become, nor was our society quite so conversant with what otherwise happens in courtrooms.

Let she that hath written a novel 50-60 years ago with vigorous sales even today--against all odds and in her second language at that--cast the first stone.

[caroljane]

I said "inappropriate", and I was talking only of my personal reaction as a novel reader, which at the time was influenced by my own circumstances and psychology. I was not casting stones at Rand. In fact I too was moved at Wynand's standing up, and got somewhat back onto the stage and finished the book. Roark would have been just as much a hero if he had gone to jail. Probably I would have liked him more.

I am surprised to see you, PDS, responding to someone's reaction to an artwork, a novel or movie or symphony or painting, with "Creating art takes genius and hard work - show me you can do better!"

[PDS]

I said "inappropriate", and I was talking only of my personal reaction as a novel reader, which at the time was influenced by my own circumstances and psychology. I was not casting stones at Rand. In fact I too was moved at Wynand's standing up, and got somewhat back onto the stage and finished the book. Roark would have been just as much a hero if he had gone to jail. Probably I would have liked him more.

I am surprised to see you, PDS, responding to someone's reaction to an artwork, a novel or movie or symphony or painting, with "Creating art takes genius and hard work - show me you can do better!"

But that's not what I said, or even implied.

This is, after all, an Objectivish website. Did you really think that poking fun at or expressing derision about The Fountainhead would go unnoticed, or unchallenged?

[caroljane]

It certainly is what you implied, in my perception. A defensive reaction against you took to be "stones cast" at what you value deeply.

I didn't think about being noticed or challenged, usually I just write what occurs. Probably I should think more.

[PDS]

It certainly is what you implied, in my perception. A defensive reaction against you took to be "stones cast" at what you value deeply.

I didn't think about being noticed or challenged, usually I just write what occurs. Probably I should think more.

This is, quite obviously, a tempest in a teapot between us, but I would like to explain myself, if only to have somebody help me check my psychological premises, and to hear what others think about this topic.

For reasons I cannot explain, I feel very protective of Ayn Rand, especially the young Ayn Rand struggling to write The Fountainhead. I have never quite known why, but the author of The Fountainhead seems so vulnerable to me, and she gave us such a gift with that book. Perhaps this is because I read the book first, or read at just the right time in an otherwise troubled life. Perhaps it is because I absorbed the lesson that there is a singular difference between a Howard Roark and a Peter Keating, "and that [lesson] has made all the difference."

Ayn Rand gave me a gift with The Fountainhead that I feel I can never quite repay. and, life being the way it is, she is no longer here to defend herself.

Perhaps that is why I defend her, sometimes too much.

[caroljane]

I think you have identified the epicentre of the tiny tempest. It is with our different attitudes as readers. All readers feel gratitude and often awe towards the authors who move them, and sometimes influence their lives profoundly. Yet some, like me, just do not feel much personal curiosity or interest about the person who wrote the books we love. We just want them to keep writing. It is the book itself, the work , and the characters created that we care about. Not very nice of us, I know.

Because Rand's novels were so inseparable from her philosophy it would be impossible not to defend her, as a person and as an author, from any slights or misrepresentations, especially as she has received so many.

And as a charismatic character herself, anyone knowing about her would retroactively speculate about what made her what she was. I know I do. You see her as young, struggling and vulnerable. I see her the same, yet the vulnerability was greatly to her own supercharged intelligence and emotions. The struggle was carried out alongside Frank, whose shoulders were broad, and while earning pretty well at day jobs. I think on balance that along with all the other things she was, she was a pretty tough cookie in those days, and I admire tough cookies, more than you can know.

[caroljane]

This may be entirely irrelevant, but men have a protective instinct towards women moreso than to other men. Could there be a gender factor at all? If Rand had been Brand (or \Brant if he ever gets around to writing his tome!) would your personal reaction have been the same?

[Selene]

It certainly is what you implied, in my perception. A defensive reaction against you took to be "stones cast" at what you value deeply.

I didn't think about being noticed or challenged, usually I just write what occurs. Probably I should think more.

This is, quite obviously, a tempest in a teapot between us, but I would like to explain myself, if only to have somebody help me check my psychological premises, and to hear what others think about this topic.

For reasons I cannot explain, I feel very protective of Ayn Rand, especially the young Ayn Rand struggling to write The Fountainhead. I have never quite known why, but the author of The Fountainhead seems so vulnerable to me, and she gave us such a gift with that book. Perhaps this is because I read the book first, or read at just the right time in an otherwise troubled life. Perhaps it is because I absorbed the lesson that there is a singular difference between a Howard Roark and a Peter Keating, "and that [lesson] has made all the difference."

Ayn Rand gave me a gift with The Fountainhead that I feel I can never quite repay. and, life being the way it is, she is no longer here to defend herself.

Perhaps that is why I defend her, sometimes too much.

Dave:

I know you are younger than I. However, that is one of the finest statements about the young Ayn that I have read.

The Fountainhead movie I saw probably when I was ten or eleven, before I read the book. It was pivotal in my development in every way.

Well put counselor. Not guilty Mr. Roark.

A...

[PDS]

It certainly is what you implied, in my perception. A defensive reaction against you took to be "stones cast" at what you value deeply.

I didn't think about being noticed or challenged, usually I just write what occurs. Probably I should think more.

This is, quite obviously, a tempest in a teapot between us, but I would like to explain myself, if only to have somebody help me check my psychological premises, and to hear what others think about this topic.

For reasons I cannot explain, I feel very protective of Ayn Rand, especially the young Ayn Rand struggling to write The Fountainhead. I have never quite known why, but the author of The Fountainhead seems so vulnerable to me, and she gave us such a gift with that book. Perhaps this is because I read the book first, or read at just the right time in an otherwise troubled life. Perhaps it is because I absorbed the lesson that there is a singular difference between a Howard Roark and a Peter Keating, "and that [lesson] has made all the difference."

Ayn Rand gave me a gift with The Fountainhead that I feel I can never quite repay. and, life being the way it is, she is no longer here to defend herself.

Perhaps that is why I defend her, sometimes too much.

Dave:

I know you are younger than I. However, that is one of the finest statements about the young Ayn that I have read.

The Fountainhead movie I saw probably when I was ten or eleven, before I read the book. It was pivotal in my development in every way.

Well put counselor. Not guilty Mr. Roark.

A...

Thanks Adam.

[caroljane]

Adam, do you also have that protective feeling about the young Ayn?

[caroljane]

I will add one more thought here, maybe a presumptuous one, and if I overstep please forgive me.

You both have daughters, and protect them in their youth while encouraging their independence, knowing that ultimately they must struggle alone with themselves and the world outside, make hard choices and suffer, and relearn humanity as every generation does. Could this be a factor in your emotions toward Rand?