Fast & Furious--The Movie, or Do These People Vote?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Fast & Furious--The Movie, or Do These People Vote?

Dear sweet love of everything good and precious, these people can vote!

This one even hit Real Clear Politics (see here), which is where I got it.

Now, when we, out here in O-Land and l-land, talk about spreading philosophy through the culture, does anyone start seeing the crucial value of learning the basics of story and storytelling? How else do we talk to these people?

After all, they will vote when manipulated into doing so--and guess who that manipulator is? The storyteller.

Michael

[Darrell Hougen]

Funny. Sad. But, funny.

We need to reach out to the popular culture. There are venues like Pajamas Media, but they're basically news shows which most people won't watch. Until we start making popular movies or writing songs or stories, most people are going to remain clueless. The relatively large influence of Rand is probably a result of her fiction. If she had only ever written VOS and ITOE, I'm guessing that very few people would know who she was.

Darrell

[Jerry Biggers]

Funny. Sad. But, funny.

We need to reach out to the popular culture. There are venues like Pajamas Media, but they're basically news shows which most people won't watch. Until we start making popular movies or writing songs or stories, most people are going to remain clueless. The relatively large influence of Rand is probably a result of her fiction. If she had only ever written VOS and ITOE, I'm guessing that very few people would know who she was.

Darrell

A couple of years ago, the Ayn Rand Institute, listed the publication numbers for her fiction and non-fiction works. VOS was up to 800,000, if I remember correctly. I don't recall others. ARI has probably listed more current sales figures, which they would likely share.

Here's a few brief quotes from from Ayn Rand Nation, by Gary Weiss (liberal and no believer in Objectivism)

"Among the hottest sellers was her tribute to self-indulgence, The Virtue of Selfishness. This collection of dense essays, published in 1964, is one of the most popular books on philosophy and ethics in the English language. That's right. I don't mean one of the most popular books at The Ayn Rand Bookstore in Irvine, California. I mean the English language. [italics emphasis used in Weiss's book]

In 1999, when Rand was far less popular than she is today, a reader survey by Random House put The Virtue of Selfishness at the top of the list of the best nonfiction books published since 1900. Number three was Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand, (by Leonard Peikoff) ...."

Amazon.com sales rankings, even before they were boosted by an Atlas Shrugged movie in 2011. have demonstrated that Rand's appeal is truly widespread. Virtue consistently ranks among the best-selling books at Amazon on the subject of "ethics and morality".... Virtue also usually ranks high in Amazon sales ranking of books on epistemology, the theory of knowledge.....Since Rand never wrote a comprehensive outline of her philosophy, Atlas Shrugged is the basic text of Rand followers. A total of 6000,000 copies of the book were sold in 2009, an all-time record.'"

[Selene]

A total of 6000,000 copies of the book were sold in 2009, an all-time record.'"is

Jerry:

6,000,000?

A...

[Jerry Biggers]

Weiss says 600,000. You think that A.S sold six million in that year alone?

It would be interesting to see the yearly sales figures, back to its publication date 1957. A number of writers have commented that the election of Head of State, Mr. Thompson" in 2008, spiked sales.

[Jerry Biggers]

According to ARI:

As of April, 2008:

We TheLiving 3 million

Anthem 4 million

The Fountainhead 6.5 million

Atlas Shrugged 6.5 million

For The New Intellectual 1 million

The Virtue of Selfishness 1.25 million

Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal 600,000

The Romantic Manifesto 350,000

Figures not listed for her other non-ffiction works

from ARI press release:

Tuesday, February 14, 2012

by Yaron Brook

WASHINGTON—New reports from Ayn Rand’s publisher indicates that sales figures for "Atlas Shrugged" are continuing a remarkable trend.

In 2011 all English editions of "Atlas Shrugged" sold 445,000 copies.

"This is incredible," says Dr. Yaron Brook, executive director of the Ayn Rand Institute. "Since Obama was elected, ‘Atlas Shrugged’ has sold more than 1.5 million copies. This is unheard of in the publishing industry, for a 55-year-old novel to register sales of this magnitude. And what’s even more remarkable is that this is even more than the book sold in 1957 . . . when it was a best seller!"

In addition, Penguin’s new "Atlas Shrugged" iPad app recently won the Publishing Innovation Award for best app in the fiction category.

[syrakusos]

I posted these numbers on RoR. I believe that all copies of all Ayn Rand books total over 36 million. Also for Virtue of Selfishness to have sold 800,000 is astounding. Realize however, that I own 18 of these books. How about you? In other words, Ayn Rand's books sell best to people who buy Ayn Rand's books.

That said, it is clear that these ideas are "influencing the popular culture." You must understand what that means ... and does not mean.

I took ARI's numbers and adjusted them based on more recent stories, such as two from The Economist.

According to the Ayn Rand Institute April 7, 2008, total sales of Ayn Rand’s works was “over 25 million.” I believe that actual sales are much greater. How many books are unique sales, and how many others the “typical” reader purchases are unanswered.
The numbers indicate that anyone who buys Anthem, The Fountainhead, or Atlas Shrugged will buy the other two, though not always. Sales of Atlas slightly outpace the others.
The very low numbers for the technical books such as Virtue of Selfishness and Capitalism: the Unknown Ideal suggest that people who agree with the presentation in Atlas Shrugged largely seem uninterested in the complicated details of formal philosophy. Perhaps, such individualists are unlikely to be true believers. Agreeing with the sentiments of The Fountainhead, Anthem, and Atlas Shrugged, they have only no interest in adopting the catechism of Objectivism – which I expect of those with individualist personalities.

I also believe from the numbers that while some few may buy Philosophy: Who Needs It? or Introduction to the Objectivist Epistemology these are acquired by those who are interested in the technical philosophy having been introduced to it from the novels. Beyond that, even fewer people find reflection of their own values in Ayn Rand’s personal opinions.

The low sales of Capitalism: the Unknown Ideal may be a result of its being tied to the times in which it was written. The case study for big business as a persecuted minority was General Electric (now an ally and beneficiary of President Obama's vision for "green energy"). Since then, Michael Milken or Martha Stewart have come and gone. The principles remain valid and important, but the details of delivery are dusty. Alan Greenspan’s defense of Wall Street stock brokers as persons of integrity remains factually true, but today certainly rings hollow, if not perhaps an example of post modernist irony. Ultimately, it may be that today the argument for laissez faire has been made so long and well that most of the book seems superfluous. When left wing demogogues such as Roseanne Barr and Elizabeth Warren rant against corporate greed, they parenthetically note their strong support for big rewards to true innovators who are not crony capitalists bailed out by the Treasury.
Similarly, Ayn Rand’s praise for Victor Hugo in The Romantic Manifesto may be timely, with Les Miserables running long on the stage and now coming to the screen, but probably remain as dated as her good words for Mickey Spillane and Charlie’s Angels. Message boards for Objectivists and fans of Ayn Rand often carry debates, recommendations, and condemnations about new works such as Lord of the Rings and The Watchmen. That, too, suggests more missing numbers. We read and write online. Buying a book, and reading it alone may not be how millions discover new ideas.

Tallies from the Ayn Rand Institute April 7, 2008
1- We the Living - 3 million (guess 4 million)
2- Anthem- 4 million (guess 5.5 million)
3- The Fountainhead - 6.5 million (guess 8.3 million)
4- Atlas Shrugged - 6 million
(Other sources such as The Economist reported +.5 in 2009 and .445 in 2011) (therefore, I guess .5 in 2010 and .5 in 2012 for a total approximation of 8 million, a 33% increase over 2008. That 33% generated my other guesses here.)
5- For the New Intellectual - 1 million (guess 1.3 million)
6- Virtue of Selfishness- 1.5 million (guess 2 million)
7- Capitalism: the Unknown Ideal - .650 million (guess .875)
8- The Romantic Manifesto - .350 million (guess .470)

Approximate subtotal- - 36 million tallied as sold, but not including these below

“Official” works by Ayn Rand and members of her Collective
9- Introduction to the Objectivist Epistemology
10- Philosophy: Who Needs It? -
11- Return of the Primitive (formerly The New Left: the Anti-Industrial Revolution)-
12: The Voice of Reason: Essays in Objectivist Thought
12- Early Ayn Rand vol. 1-
13- Three Plays- (Early Ayn Rand vol. 2)
14. The Ayn Rand Lexicon: Objectivism from A to Z by Harry Binswanger
15. Ayn Rand Answers: The Best of Her Q&A by Robert Mayhew
16. Who is Ayn Rand by Nathaniel Branden and Barbara Branden
17. The Philosophic Thought of Ayn Rand edited by by Douglas J. Den Uyl and Douglas B. Rasmussen

18. The Psychology of Self Esteem by Nathaniel Branden
19. What Art Is: The Esthetic Theory of Ayn Rand by Louis Torres and Michelle Marder Kamhi (an outlier as its authors are not publicly identified with the Ayn Rand Institute, but as far as I know nothing in this book contradicts Rand’s theories on art.)

Other works from within the social context of Objectivism
20. Ayn Rand: A Sense of Life (film and accompanying book) by Michael Paxton
21. Judgment Day: My Years with Ayn Rand by Nathaniel Branden
22. The Passion of Ayn Rand by Barbara Branden
23. Ayn Rand: The Russian Radical by Chris Matthew Sciabarra
24: The Passion of Ayn Rand's Critics by James S. Valliant

Other works from outside the Objectivist movement but contributing to it
25. Goddess of the Market: Ayn Rand and the American Right by Jennifer Burns
26. Ayn Rand and the World She Made by Anne C. Heller
27. Radicals for Capitalism: A Freewheeling History of the Modern American Libertarian Movement by Brian Doherty
28. It Usually Begins With Ayn Rand by Jerome Tuccille
29. Is Objectivism a Religion? by Albert Ellis

[syrakusos]

BTW I know who Eric Holder is. I have not seen any "Fast & Furious" movies. Here on my PC, the homepage is set to CNN. On my Mac, the homepage is Reuters. I know that "Jersey Shore" exists, but I have never seen one. I never saw "Dancing with the Stars." I do not know which of the Kardashians is a fat cow, but I know that one of them is.

As for these Reason-TV interviews, if they found 12 intelligent people in a row, they would not show it because they are entertaining us with our own sense of superiority.

[Brant Gaede]

Compression and Decompression, Two Examples

In the 1950s Ayn Rand occupied a very little world while creating (re-creating?) a very big one in her huge novel while surrounded by accolades from a group of young friends and having the best sex of her life all of which continued with Random House celebrating her into print. That was reality compression. What followed was de-compression as Atlas Shrugged met the real world and then her depression, which roots were probably more complicated than that.

Next, Nathaniel Branden re-compressed her world, sans sex, with his institute (NBI), The Objectivist Newsletter, and what not. This blew up because he was getting laid and she wasn't, but she wanted to and didn't understand why what he said didn't match up to what he was doing. Again, it was much more complicated, but that's why the 1960s' N.B. description of what they were doing intellectually and culturally was like being inside an "invincible fortress." That blew up in 1968. Rand was stuck with the inertia along with those who continued to follow her, at least for a time, but the time of her life was running out. The second de-compression hit those who had put themselves inside that "fortress" only to find it gone and they were naked and on their own. Today, a few still imagine themselves in that fortress many not aware how pitiful it is, for, ironically, it had always been mostly a cultural, not intellectual, edifice, and doesn't match up well with the world as it actually is, which is mostly a void for Objectivism no matter how many of her books are sold, more likely to end up on bookshelves than in someone's head said someone going out to change the world and not properly taking care of his or her own life.

The basic error was focusing on Objectivism's ethical locus rooted in Atlas Shrugged instead of the politics and using that as where its banner was placed. Individual rights. They blew off everyone who wasn't an Objectivist ("student of Objectivism") ending with Leonard Peikoff stating he would blow up the entire "movement" rather than deal with "slime." (He only has that power because there is nothing to blow up.) The entire Objectivist movement was a Russian sleigh ride now a joke.

Objectivism as commonly understood is a place that in terms of the broad and diverse culture out there you cannot get to from here. Sell all the books you want; write volumes, add wood to the fire. It won't make any difference. Take what you need and make your life the best it can be. Nathaniel Branden Lectures was founded in 1958 and for the next ten years did do a lot of good and re-ignited the libertarian--now all but dead libertarian--movement, but by not grabbing the common-ground of individual rights and putting the philosophy on a secondary footing (here we are on rights, if you want to know where we are coming from here is our supporting philosophy which in turn is based on real critical thinking).

55 years wasted are too many years to make up to save this crash and burn world addicted to other people's money eating up other people's lives. Don't get ate.

--Brant

Michael, this doesn't belong in this thread. Can you split it off into its own thread? I didn't know where I was going to end up when writing it. -- BG

[caroljane]

BTW I know who Eric Holder is. I have not seen any "Fast & Furious" movies. Here on my PC, the homepage is set to CNN. On my Mac, the homepage is Reuters. I know that "Jersey Shore" exists, but I have never seen one. I never saw "Dancing with the Stars." I do not know which of the Kardashians is a fat cow, but I know that one of them is.

LOL, Mike. They take turns being the fat cow. Next up, Bruce Jenner!

[Selene]

The basic error was focusing on Objectivism's ethical locus rooted in Atlas Shrugged instead of the politics and using that as where its banner was placed. Individual rights. They blew off everyone who wasn't an Objectivist ("student of Objectivism") ending with Leonard Peikoff stating he would blow up the entire "movement" rather than deal with "slime." (He only has that power because there is nothing to blow up.) The entire Objectivist movement was a Russian sleigh ride now a joke.

Objectivism as commonly understood is a place that in terms of the broad and diverse culture out there you cannot get to from here. Sell all the books you want; write volumes, add wood to the fire. It won't make any difference. Take what you need and make your life the best it can be. Nathaniel Branden Lectures was founded in 1958 and for the next ten years did do a lot of good and re-ignited the libertarian--now all but dead libertarian--movement, but by not grabbing the common-ground of individual rights and putting the philosophy on a secondary footing (here we are on rights, if you want to know where we are coming from here is our supporting philosophy which in turn is based on real critical thinking).

Brilliant sections Brant.

I could not agree more. It is the primary reason that I moved away and towards working on my life and the work building the Libertarian Party up in NY State. When I disengaged we had a damn permanent ballot line in NY State!

A...

[syrakusos]

Oh, yes, building a state-level Libertarian Party is exactly what John, Francisco, and Ragnar would do...

Here is the problem and tell me if I am wrong here and now...

Back in like 1980, a real actual and true individualist went to an LP national convention and found them arrayed in alphabetical order by state.... and when their preferred candidate was named, they hooted and beat their sticks on the ground.

Objectivism is an individualist philosophy, i.e., it is a philosophy of personal meaning for those persons who perceive themselves as individuals, apart from any collective.

[Brant Gaede]

Oh, yes, building a state-level Libertarian Party is exactly what John, Francisco, and Ragnar would do...

Here is the problem and tell me if I am wrong here and now...

Back in like 1980, a real actual and true individualist went to an LP national convention and found them arrayed in alphabetical order by state.... and when their preferred candidate was named, they hooted and beat their sticks on the ground.

Objectivism is an individualist philosophy, i.e., it is a philosophy of personal meaning for those persons who perceive themselves as individuals, apart from any collective.

And what "Objectivism" are you talking about? The Rand faux? Nothing to do in practice--her practice--with individualism; that was surface scum. If you think Francisco was an individualist why didn't he tell John to take a long walk off a short plank several times or bop him a good one right in the nose when he found out he had lost Dagny? After all, Rand slapped Branden. That was really real.

--Brant

once that's settled we'll go to the next next, that convention you went to

(like my Father you would never call John [Galt] "Jack")

[Jerry Biggers]

Brant,

Gee,...and I thought that I was pessimistic...

From post #9, you state that Objectivism was and is (and will always be) a subculture important only to its adherents and largely ignored or derided, by the rest of American culture, in particular those that consider themselves to be the intellectuals.

You then state that: "The basic error was focusing on Objectivism's ethical locus rooted in Atlas Shrugged instead of the politics and using that as where its banner was placed. Individual rights. They blew off everyone who wasn't an Objectivist ("student of Objectivism") ending with Leonard Peikoff stating he would blow up the entire "movement" rather than deal with "slime." (He only has that power because there is nothing to blow up.) The entire Objectivist movement was a Russian sleigh ride now a joke."

Then you say that NBI did a lot of good reigniting the libertarian - now all but dead - movement, and here you say that the problem was:

"not grabbing the common-ground of individual rights and putting the philosophy on a secondary footing (here we are on rights, if you want to know where we are coming from here is our supporting philosophy which in turn is based on real critical thinking)." [Are you referring here to your own writings, or to someone else. If so, who?]

Then, in post #13, you deny that Objectivism advocated individualism which was only "surface scum" negated by Rand's authoritarian personality. [sorry, ad hominem arguments attacking her personality do not invalidate her philosophical writings]. And rhetorically state that Rand's characters that she created for Atlas Shrugged, should have followed your suggestions, rather than the author's.

So, what do we have left? You have thrown out the Objectivist ethics as an "error," but subtract the ethics (which is the whole point of Atlas Shrugged) and what you have left, in politics and economics, is indistinguishable from libertarianism. So, would we be better off if Rand had never existed, and we only had the warmed-over classical liberalism of Hayek and von Mises and National Review-type conservtism, for our defense of individual rights?

Your later arguments seem to contradict your earlier statement that NBI "did a lot of good reigniting the libertarian movement, but add that it is "all but dead." So, what is the "good" that you are referring to here? The only contributions to classical liberal/libertarian thought that Objectivism added are the very same ones that you reject.

You also state that sales of Rand's books advocating Objectivism, or even additional books advocating Objectivism or libertarianism, won't do any good, but will just add wood to the fire.

So, correct me if I misinterpret your position:, no arguments, no political movements, can stop the slide toward a collectivist totalitarian - Orwellian - state, eager to burn all books opposing them?

Unlike in Orwell's time, we really do now have the technology to create near-total surveillance of all U.S. citizens.

[Jerry Biggers]

Brant,

You also are ignoring or discounting the very worried view of Gary Weiss in Ayn Rand Nation, who clearly thinks Rand's influence is growing, and fast.

In addition to the quotes below, which refer to sales of her books (which you dismiss as unimportant... by the way, why are all these books being sold, if Rand is irrelevant?),

from Ayn Rand Nation, by Gary Weiss (liberal and no believer in Objectivism)

"Among the hottest sellers was her tribute to self-indulgence, The Virtue of Selfishness. This collection of dense essays, published in 1964, is one of the most popular books on philosophy and ethics in the English language. That's right. I don't mean one of the most popular books at The Ayn Rand Bookstore in Irvine, California. I mean the English language. [italics emphasis used in Weiss's book]

In 1999, when Rand was far less popular than she is today, a reader survey by Random House put The Virtue of Selfishness at the top of the list of the best nonfiction books published since 1900. Number three was Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand, (by Leonard Peikoff) ...."

Amazon.com sales rankings, even before they were boosted by an Atlas Shrugged movie in 2011. have demonstrated that Rand's appeal is truly widespread. Virtue consistently ranks among the best-selling books at Amazon on the subject of "ethics and morality".... Virtue also usually ranks high in Amazon sales ranking of books on epistemology, the theory of knowledge.....Since Rand never wrote a comprehensive outline of her philosophy, Atlas Shrugged is the basic text of Rand followers. A total of 6000,000 copies of the book were sold in 2009, an all-time record.'"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weiss later states (edit:near the start of Chapter Seven, "The Cool Objectivist," pages 101-102 in Nook ebook version) that the fashionable dismissal by the liberal media of Objectivism as a legitimate political philosophy - and that they do not need to respond to its arguments, is not only in error, but may be a fatal error on their part. Complete quote will be posted shortly!

He then follows with examples of its growing influence.

You two guys need to get together, have a few beers, and work all this out. Thanks!

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Jerry,

I fully agree with you about Weiss's book.

In fact, I have a ton of notes on it.

I keep putting off putting them up, but I guess I'll bite the bullet.

Neil's going to be doing a review in JARS, too, if I'm not mistaken.

Michael

[Jerry Biggers]

further from Ayn Rand Nation, by Gary Weiss. pages 101-102, Chapter 7, Nook ebook version)

"Thanks to the Tea Party, the thoughts of Ayn Rand were now being communicated to millions of Americans who otherwise would be indifferent or even hostile to her message.

Yet her ideological adversaries, especially on the left, were still not taking her seriously. The chattering classes viewed her as little more than a nuisance....".

Leftist "cartoon series, and personal attacks in liberal-leaning blogs, was about as much asone saw in critiques of Rand, outside of conservative and libertarian circles.

If ridicule was all the mainstream of America could offer to counter Rand, it would not be enough. Rand would win the ideological struggle."

(my italics)

[Brant Gaede]

further from Ayn Rand Nation, by Gary Weiss. pages 101-102, Chapter 7, Nook ebook version)

"Thanks to the Tea Party, the thoughts of Ayn Rand were now being communicated to millions of Americans who otherwise would be indifferent or even hostile to her message.

Yet her ideological adversaries, especially on the left, were still not taking her seriously. The chattering classes viewed her as little more than a nuisance....".

Leftist "cartoon series, and personal attacks in liberal-leaning blogs, was about as much asone saw in critiques of Rand, outside of conservative and libertarian circles.

If ridicule was all the mainstream of America could offer to counter Rand, it would not be enough. Rand would win the ideological struggle."

(my italics)

Oh, they took her seriously. Their number 1 method was to pretend she didn't exist, then, if they had to acknowledge her, sneer. That was all they could do in the 1960s. Today the bs doesn't work. What does work is forsaking ideological justification for looting America and Americans as they go whole hog. Or, their own ideas were always undefendable bs and they always knew it. The veneer of liberal respectability has worn off revealing the fascism and communism underneath in all its rotten glory.

--Brant

[Jerry Biggers]

Amazon.com sales rankings, even before they were boosted by an Atlas Shrugged movie in 2011. have demonstrated that Rand's appeal is truly widespread. Virtue consistently ranks among the best-selling books at Amazon on the subject of "ethics and morality".... Virtue also usually ranks high in Amazon sales ranking of books on epistemology, the theory of knowledge.....Since Rand never wrote a comprehensive outline of her philosophy, Atlas Shrugged is the basic text of Rand followers. A total of 6000,000 copies of the book were sold in 2009, an all-time record.'"

Yet another of my typo errors that I missed! The figure that Gary Weiss is quoting above, should read "A total of 600,000 copies......" NOT 6000,000 copies! (Although 6,000,000 would have been nice!