puzzle: Stu Pid's high blood pressure


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A puzzle for you to solve.

Stu Pid has high blood pressure, also known as hypertension. He goes to a doctor who prescribes a med. The med brings his blood pressure down. The question is: What can be wrong with this?

Sometimes meds don't work, but we will assume that the med works in the sense that it brings the blood pressure down. Meds usually have 'side effects' (which are unintended poisonous effects) but we will assume for the purpose of this puzzle that this med has no side effects. Perhaps this is a self-contradictory assumption: is it possible for a med to bring blood pressure down without side effects? But we will ignore that.

We will assume that Stu Pid has no financial problem paying for the med or any problem taking the med or any problem getting a supply of the med.

The med works, in the sense of bringing and keeping the blood pressure down. Do you argue with success? Anyone who argues with success is a [ insert some vile names ].

We will assume that there is no possibility that his blood pressure will go down too low and will always be where his doctor thinks it should be.

We will assume that the med is legit and is approved by the Fraud and Deception Administration FDA and is completely above board and Stu Pid has the Medical Deity's doctor's approval. We will assume that there is nothing wrong with this med as a med.

Perhaps some of these assumptions are contrary to reality, but we will ignore that.

What is wrong with lowering blood pressure with a med?

HINT #1: Check your premises.

HINT #2: In order to check your premises, you must know what your premises are. Premises can be implicit instead of explicit.

The result of lowering blood pressure by means of a med can be bad, not counting poisonous effects or unintended effects. How? Is anyone unable to figure it out?

The answer to this question can be very important and very instructive.

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What is wrong with lowering blood pressure with a med?

Nothing provided:

1. The med actually does lower blood pressure into a safe range.

2. The med does not have harmful side effects.

3. You are able to afford the med.

If 1 fails, then the med is useless or harmful

if 2 fails the med is potentially harmful

if 3 fails then one has to look for an alternative way of lowering blood pressure.

Such ways exist that are at least partially successful.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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What is wrong with lowering blood pressure with a med?

Nothing provided:

1. The med actually does lower blood pressure into a safe range.

2. The med does not have harmful side effects.

3. You are able to afford the med.

If 1 fails, then the med is useless or harmful

if 2 fails the med is potentially harmful

if 3 fails then one has to look for an alternative way of lowering blood pressure.

Such ways exist that are at least partially successful.

Ba'al Chatzaf

There is a definite answer, but you don't have it. The answer should be obvious.

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There is a definite answer, but you don't have it. The answer should be obvious.

Aha! I have it. Commit suicide and the blood pressure is lowered to zero!

Ba'al Chatzaf

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An 80 yo woman confided to me she had high blood pressure but didn't like medicine's side effects so she stopped taking any. She died in her sleep three months later.

--Brant

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There is a definite answer, but you don't have it. The answer should be obvious.

Aha! I have it. Commit suicide and the blood pressure is lowered to zero!

Ba'al Chatzaf

That is not an answer to the question. The question is: What is wrong with lowering the blood pressure by means of the med, with all the assumptions stated in my first message in this thread? The question is not about alternative methods of lowering blood pressure.

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An 80 yo woman confided to me she had high blood pressure but didn't like medicine's side effects so she stopped taking any. She died in her sleep three months later.

--Brant

That may be interesting and instructive, but in Stu Pid's case, there are no unintended effects.

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A puzzle for you to solve.

Stu Pid has high blood pressure, also known as hypertension. He goes to a doctor who prescribes a med. The med brings his blood pressure down. The question is: What can be wrong with this?

Sometimes meds don't work, but we will assume that the med works in the sense that it brings the blood pressure down. Meds usually have 'side effects' (which are unintended poisonous effects) but we will assume for the purpose of this puzzle that this med has no side effects. Perhaps this is a self-contradictory assumption: is it possible for a med to bring blood pressure down without side effects? But we will ignore that.

We will assume that Stu Pid has no financial problem paying for the med or any problem taking the med or any problem getting a supply of the med.

The med works, in the sense of bringing and keeping the blood pressure down. Do you argue with success? Anyone who argues with success is a [ insert some vile names ].

We will assume that there is no possibility that his blood pressure will go down too low and will always be where his doctor thinks it should be.

We will assume that the med is legit and is approved by the Fraud and Deception Administration FDA and is completely above board and Stu Pid has the Medical Deity's doctor's approval. We will assume that there is nothing wrong with this med as a med.

Perhaps some of these assumptions are contrary to reality, but we will ignore that.

What is wrong with lowering blood pressure with a med?

HINT #1: Check your premises.

HINT #2: In order to check your premises, you must know what your premises are. Premises can be implicit instead of explicit.

The result of lowering blood pressure by means of a med can be bad, not counting poisonous effects or unintended effects. How? Is anyone unable to figure it out?

The answer to this question can be very important and very instructive.

I thought this would be easy.

We are not interested in alternative methods of lowering blood pressure. Only what is wrong with lowering blood pressure.

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If the answer to the puzzle is to question the assumption that HBP is bad for you it's not much of a puzzle.

--Brant

HBP might be bad, but lowering it also might be bad. So far nobody explained why.

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What is the root cause of the high blood pressure?

Now we are talking English. More specifically, what is the cause in the case of Stu Pid? That would be a start.

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This is what Stu Pid's blood vessels look like. When blood vessels are obstructed, more pressure is needed to push the blood thru. Is that so hard to understand?

18020.jpg

The high blood pressure is not really the problem. It is the body's response to the problem. The flow of blood is impeded; therefore more pressure is needed. What would you have the body do? A flow of blood is necessary to supply oxygen and glucose and nutrients to the tissues and to remove waste and whatever else you need a flow of blood for.

The Medical Deity doctor is trained like a seal to prescribe a med. No thought process is involved. What does the med do? It does not solve the problem (the obstruction); it opposes the body's response to the problem. Is that good? This is called 'symptoms management', not be confused with health.

As a result of the med, even setting aside poisonous effects, the flow of blood is reduced. This means Stu Pid is now not getting enough flow of blood, with all the consequences.

The problem (the obstruction) is not solved. It merely looks like it is solved. Solve the problem and the high blood pressure is not necessary.

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Did you provide enough data to solve the puzzle or is this medical school?

--Brant

a pulling teeth thread

You were supposed to fill in the details with your imagination and knowledge.

It is not likely you learn this stuff in medical school. If you did, they would solve the problem instead of stopping the body's response to it. Most doctors do mostly symptoms management instead of health.

When Dr. McDougall said "My patients get well.", that was a radical statement coming from a doctor. Dr. Klaper said "Medical school didn't prepare me for this." [his patients getting well in response to diet].

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That is not an answer to the question. The question is: What is wrong with lowering the blood pressure by means of the med, with all the assumptions stated in my first message in this thread? The question is not about alternative methods of lowering blood pressure.

Easy. While you are taking meds you are not dead. The solution to high blood pressure is death. solution: stop taking meds and die.

Problem solved.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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So, this is medical school. Do you need artherosclerosis to have HBP?

--Brant

In medical school they learn mostly symptoms management, not much health.

You probably don't need obstruction of blood vessels to have HBP, but it helps.

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So, this is medical school. Do you need artherosclerosis to have HBP?

--Brant

In medical school they learn mostly symptoms management, not much health.

You probably don't need obstruction of blood vessels to have HBP, but it helps.

What medical school is this? If you are referring just to HBP you may have a point, but if so how do you know it? Symptoms management had little to do with my medical training. Maybe something has changed in the last 48 years. The art of medicine is doing the right thing with wrong or incomplete science and as ignorance is displaced by knowledge medicine gets better. Doctors killed George Washington and William McKinley. They could not save the son of Calvin Coolidge so we got Hoover and the Great Depression, Hitler, genocide and WWII.

--Brant

but I do think that as far as HBP goes, you did a great job setting this up and the illustrations are very good

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That is not an answer to the question. The question is: What is wrong with lowering the blood pressure by means of the med, with all the assumptions stated in my first message in this thread? The question is not about alternative methods of lowering blood pressure.

Easy. While you are taking meds you are not dead. The solution to high blood pressure is death. solution: stop taking meds and die.

Problem solved.

Ba'al Chatzaf

You seem to be unable to understand the question. We are not talking about the solution to high blood pressure. We are talking about what is wrong with lowering it.

However, Dr. Alan Goldhamer (who supervised 8,000+ fasts) says fasting works very well for high blood pressure. This should not be very surprising. It is well known that during a fast the body tends to get rid of crud. This might include some of the crud obstructing blood vessels.

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What medical school is this? If you are referring just to HBP you may have a point, but if so how do you know it? Symptoms management had little to do with my medical training. Maybe something has changed in the last 48 years. The art of medicine is doing the right thing with wrong or incomplete science and as ignorance is displaced by knowledge medicine gets better. Doctors killed George Washington and William McKinley. They could not save the son of Calvin Coolidge so we got Hoover and the Great Depression, Hitler, genocide and WWII.

--Brant

Prescribing drugs is symptoms management.

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Some "symptoms" can kill you. Prolonged hbp can cause congestive heart failure. If a diet change cannot be accomplished, medication is an alternative. Mostly people won't change their diet. Even the docs take the meds because they don't feel they have time to obsess over their diet and they just grab what's readily available. That's life, that's individual choice. Everything is a trade off. Future medicine will end heart disease, too late for our generation. Tough titties.

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