"100 Reasons Why Evolution Is STUPID! - Kent Hovind Christian Creationist"


jts

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Update on Kent Hovind for Jerry. He is still in jail ... here's a portion of the detailed Wikipedia article, dealing with just part of his legal affairs, from before his later (failed) appeal.


This is prime 'crank' material -- "He hoped to convince a jury that his amusement park admission and merchandise sales belonged to God and cannot be taxed."

Federal criminal tax-related trial and convictions in 2006
On July 11, 2006, Hovind was charged in the District Court in Northern Florida in Pensacola with twelve counts of willful failure to collect, account for, and pay over federal income taxes and FICA taxes, forty-five counts of knowingly structuring transactions in federally insured financial institutions to evade reporting requirements, and one count of corruptly endeavoring to obstruct and impede the administration of the internal revenue laws.[152][153][153] Twelve of the charges were for failing to pay employee-related taxes, totaling $473,818, and 45 of the charges were for evading reporting requirements by making multiple cash withdrawals just under the $10,000 reporting requirement (a technique known as "smurfing"). The withdrawals, totaling $430,500, were made in 2001 and 2002.[153] Jo Delia Hovind, his wife, faced 44 charges.[154]

The government charged that Hovind falsely listed the IRS as his only creditor in his bankruptcy, filed a false and frivolous lawsuit against the IRS in which he demanded damages for criminal trespass, made threats of harm to those investigating him and to those who might consider cooperating with the investigation, filed a false complaint against IRS agents investigating him, filed a false criminal complaint against IRS special agents (criminal investigators), and destroyed records.[155]


After being indicted, Hovind claimed incomprehension to the charges, telling the court: "I still don't understand what I'm being charged for and who is charging me."[153] Magistrate Miles Davis asked Hovind if he wrote and spoke English, to which Hovind responded "To some degree". Davis replied that the government adequately explained the allegations and the defendant understands the charges "whether you want to admit it or not."[156] Hovind stated that he did not recognize the government's right to try him on tax-fraud charges. At first he attempted to enter a plea of "subornation of false muster," but then entered a not guilty plea "under duress" when the judge offered to enter a plea for him.[148]

At the time of the arrest Hovind's passport and guns were seized. Hovind protested, arguing that he needed his passport to continue his evangelism work, and that "thousands and thousands" were waiting to hear him preach in South Africa the following month. The court refused to reconsider, accepting the argument that "like-minded people" might secret Hovind away if he left the country.[153] Because of reports of weapons on the Hovind property, the indictment was originally sealed for fear of danger to the arresting agents.[157] More than a half-dozen guns were seized at the Hovind's home, including an SKS semiautomatic rifle.[158] Also, "During an IRS raid at the home, agents found and seized numerous cash stashes totalling $42,000."[158]

Evidence produced at the trial revealed that Jo Hovind had requested financial assistance from Baptist Healthcare claiming that the Hovinds had no income. "'Dr. and Mrs. Kent Hovind do not earn salaries,' wrote Martha Harris, the trust secretary of Creation Science Evangelism to Baptist Healthcare. 'As health insurance is not provided for this couple, we would appreciate (financial assistance).'"[159] However, continues the article, "Kent Hovind, a tax protester, makes a substantial amount of money". The Pensacola News Journal noted, "On the day the IRS searched the Hovind home, Kent Hovind withdrew $70,000 from the Creation Science Evangelism account. Half in a check; the other in cash."[160]

At the time of the indictment, Hovind's defense appeared to be that although there were 30 people working for him, all of whom received remuneration in cash, none of them were employees. According to Hovind, "Nobody's an employee, and they all know that when they come. They come, they work ... The laborer is worthy of his hire – we try to take the purely scriptural approach. We do the best we can with helping people with their family needs. There are no employees here."[161] Hovind had also claimed that he was not liable for taxes that he and his ministry did not have to "render unto Caesar" because his workers are "missionaries", not "employees".[162]

On October 21, 2006, the trial began in which he hoped to convince a jury that his amusement park admission and merchandise sales belonged to God and cannot be taxed.[41] Former and current workers, IRS agents, a bank employee, and a lawyer of a non-profit Christian organization testified in the trial. The IRS agents told the court how Hovind attempted "bullying tactics" and sued the government three times, which were thrown out, to pressure them to stop investigating.[41] Several people who worked for Hovind testified that they had to punch time cards, and had vacation and sick days, while others testified that Hovind claimed he had "beat" the tax system.[163] During the trial, the judge "admonished" Hovind's attorney for wasting time and asking irrelevant questions.[164]

The trial concluded on November 1 with the defense deciding not to present a case.[165][166] After closing arguments were presented on November 2, the jury deliberated three hours before finding the Hovinds guilty on all counts, 58 for Hovind and 44 for his wife.[160] The Pensacola News Journal noted, "The saddest thing: Had they cooperated with the agents, they probably wouldn't be worrying about prison sentences now."[167]

Edited by william.scherk
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All this stuff about Kent Hovind being in prison is old and boring. I knew that for a long time. It is also irrelevant to his lectures about evolution and his debates with evolutionists. If the fact that he is in prison is intended as an argument in favor of evolution and against creation, then it is a well known fallacy called 'ad hominem'.

He has his religious beliefs (as irrational as they are) and if he really sincerely believes them, it is natural for him to act on these beliefs. If he did not, you maybe would call him a hypocrite.

I viewed and listened to a bunch of debates between Kent Hovind and evolutionists. I was surprised that the evolutionists didn't do well. He seems to kick ass every time. True, I didn't listen to all of them, only those on the internet; maybe someone did kick his ass.

I was surprised because evolution is based on science (even tho he denies it) and creation is not. Perhaps the evolutionists were not accustomed to debate. Perhaps they don't have their act fully together.

I also found him funny. He is just as much a comedian as he is a preacher. (Obviously being funny does not prove creation; it merely makes him fun to listen to.)

The subject of creation vs evolution brings up the subject of intuition. For most people (or at least most uneducated people), evolution is counter-intuitive. The reason why is that intuition is based on experience and evolution involves a time frame outside our experience. The time frame of evolution is millions of generations. Intuition applied where we have experience can be powerful but when it's applied outside our experience, it can be misleading. Evolution viewed from intuition can look 'stupid' as he says many times.

Some other things that (at least to most people) are counter-intuitive:

- Einstein's theory of relativity.

- Quantum theory.

- Perhaps the power of min-max and alpha-beta in computer chess some decades ago.

- Free market. (at least according to Walter Block)

These are counter-intuitive because they are outside our experience.

Intuition properly grounded in experience can be powerful and is not something to be despised. For example:

- Judge Judy's ability to tell whether a person is lying.

- A experienced businessman's ability to assess a business opportunity.

- An experienced doctor's ability to diagnose a health problem.

- "I know I am not in form when the first move I see is not the best move." Tigran Petrosian, world chess champion 1963-1969

On the subject of evolution, intuition be damned. The time frame of evolution is outside our experience.

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Jerry,

This is not a site for preaching.

Nor for playing mind games about preachers.

Cut the crap.

Michael

I thought that this was a site where those of us who admire the works of Ayn Rand could discuss ideas.

"A dog, a wolf, a coyote, and a banana." Which ones had a common ancestor?

Yes, I know that at the genetic level, fungus and humans share 90% or more of DNA., I get that. It does not explain "evolution" (so called). I also know that it is a common high school experiment in genetics to extract the DNA of strawberries. Easy peasy from the Left Coast see here or from the Heartland of America here. But while we have a double helix, strawberries have a quadruple helix!

Also, MSK, as you greatly admire powerful men who command audiences, I would have thought that you would see the efficacy of his delivery, granted that he had a pre-selected (self-selected) array of listeners to laugh on cue.

Myself, on the problem of evolution, I must insist that the gaps in the fossil record are evidence that beings "greater" than us (however defined) intervened or interfered in our planet to bring the world to its state today. Moreover... it is possible (ala X-Files) that this continues and that ultimately, Earth's humans will be subjugated to serve human-alien hybrids who will be allowed to join the galactic empire or whatever the heck it is out there. (Just sayin' ... there are more things in heaven and Earth than are known in your philosophy, Horatio.)

I say, give the chimp a banana. Nice work.

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All this stuff about Kent Hovind ... is also irrelevant to his lectures about evolution and his debates with evolutionists.

[...]

Some other things that (at least to most people) are counter-intuitive:

- Einstein's theory of relativity.

- Quantum theory.

- Perhaps the power of min-max and alpha-beta in computer chess some decades ago.

- Free market. (at least according to Walter Block)

These are counter-intuitive because they are outside our experience.

Intuition properly grounded in experience can be powerful and is not something to be despised. For example:

- Judge Judy's ability to tell whether a person is lying.

- A experienced businessman's ability to assess a business opportunity.

- An experienced doctor's ability to diagnose a health problem.

- "I know I am not in form when the first move I see is not the best move." Tigran Petrosian, world chess champion 1963-1969

On the subject of evolution, intuition be damned. The time frame of evolution is outside our experience.

Well, that is a lot to consider all at once....

Physics is a serious hobby of mine. As an undergraduate, I kept taking physics over and over until I got an A in each course. Right now, I am reading Genius by James Gleick, his biography of Richard Feynman. I have been a "student" of Feynman's since Surely, You're Joking because I knew the 3-volume red books since high school. (I just could not understand them then.) I have the Six Not-so-Easy Pieces on DVD. I read Surely You're Joking as bedtime stories to my daughter, so, I'm pretty serious about physics. All of that is to say, that Objectivists attempt to argue against relativity and quantum because they sound like Kantian blah-blah-blah, but I assure you, counter-intuitive as they may be, they are supported by experiement evidence, which is the trump card in the game of knowledge.

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Yikes, Marotta, secret young earth creationist, gawd of the gaps diddler, this is distressing. Hovind, his shyster career came to an end save for these old videos. He went to the edge of the crackpot and fell off, criminal vanity, stupidity and sleaze.

A world 8K old, this video, Hovind falling off the hooey horse. Seriously, your Randian bullshit detectors should be pinging. Don't buy Hovind's intellectual swill and don't buy the barge-load of add-ons peddled by Jerry.

Heaven's sake! as my grandmother might say were she not dead.

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I thought that this was a site where those of us who admire the works of Ayn Rand could discuss ideas.

Michael,

I have no problem discussing this dude on OL, or even discussing his ideas.

Framed as a discussion.

I do have a problem with the way this thread was presented: (1) A headline that suggests OL members consider evolution to be "STUPID!", or like to wade into a rhetorical swamp when approaching the subject, and (2) a mere video under that moniker without any commentary from the poster.

That comes off as preaching, not discussing.

Jerry isn't "STUPID!"

But neither am I.

That's why this one is in the Garbage Pile.

Michael

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All this stuff about Kent Hovind ... is also irrelevant to his lectures about evolution and his debates with evolutionists.

[...]

Some other things that (at least to most people) are counter-intuitive:

- Einstein's theory of relativity.

- Quantum theory.

- Perhaps the power of min-max and alpha-beta in computer chess some decades ago.

- Free market. (at least according to Walter Block)

These are counter-intuitive because they are outside our experience.

Intuition properly grounded in experience can be powerful and is not something to be despised. For example:

- Judge Judy's ability to tell whether a person is lying.

- A experienced businessman's ability to assess a business opportunity.

- An experienced doctor's ability to diagnose a health problem.

- "I know I am not in form when the first move I see is not the best move." Tigran Petrosian, world chess champion 1963-1969

On the subject of evolution, intuition be damned. The time frame of evolution is outside our experience.

Well, that is a lot to consider all at once....

Physics is a serious hobby of mine. As an undergraduate, I kept taking physics over and over until I got an A in each course. Right now, I am reading Genius by James Gleick, his biography of Richard Feynman. I have been a "student" of Feynman's since Surely, You're Joking because I knew the 3-volume red books since high school. (I just could not understand them then.) I have the Six Not-so-Easy Pieces on DVD. I read Surely You're Joking as bedtime stories to my daughter, so, I'm pretty serious about physics. All of that is to say, that Objectivists attempt to argue against relativity and quantum because they sound like Kantian blah-blah-blah, but I assure you, counter-intuitive as they may be, they are supported by experiement evidence, which is the trump card in the game of knowledge.

That "trump card" is actually the replicable experiment which contradicts the theory. Against that all the experiments that supported the theory are no longer any good for that. They may have some utility in supporting a new or recast and corrected theory. Other than that, however, your statement is correct.

--Brant

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