What Time Is It?

[syrakusos]

Your major thesis - the epistemological problem of the unperceived - is less tractable, and more interesting, itself a unseen problem you seek to solve.

The epistemological problem of the unperceived seems related to two other problems I have become interested in over the years - innumeracy and compartmentalization [some form of axiomatic holistic reasoning being the ideal]. The question of visual-spatial analytical reasoning seems to relate to all of these issues. ...

The unperceived can be related to visual-spatial analytical reasoning in some instances by thinking in patterns and perceiving what is both present and missing in the pattern.

That's pretty interesting. I can understand the power in that. I believe that many people think the way you do and now I question the value of schooling them in linear thinking - and grading their esteem on their ability to do what it not natural for them.

On the other hand, is spatial thinking teachable or learnable?

Holistic thinking is considered "inspiration" but perhaps only by those who lack it and therefore cannot understand it: it seems like magic.

The bottom line is that thinking in spatial patterns certainly would enable you to perceive what is missing.

[anthony]

Absorbing subject. Some of this hinges upon the ability and inability (or repressed ability?) to observe inductively, I feel. Patterns of identity and causality are as much built upon what does NOT happen, as by what DOES - by what an entity is not, almost as much as what it IS.

You name it: the (non)end of the world - the complete absence of indicators of a deity - the dog that didn't bark in the night - your teenaged daughter NOT phoning her boyfriend (for once) - the non-existence of purple swans...

[BaalChatzaf]

Your major thesis - the epistemological problem of the unperceived - is less tractable, and more interesting, itself a unseen problem you seek to solve.

The epistemological problem of the unperceived seems related to two other problems I have become interested in over the years - innumeracy and compartmentalization [some form of axiomatic holistic reasoning being the ideal]. The question of visual-spatial analytical reasoning seems to relate to all of these issues. ...

The unperceived can be related to visual-spatial analytical reasoning in some instances by thinking in patterns and perceiving what is both present and missing in the pattern.

That's pretty interesting. I can understand the power in that. I believe that many people think the way you do and now I question the value of schooling them in linear thinking - and grading their esteem on their ability to do what it not natural for them.

On the other hand, is spatial thinking teachable or learnable?

Holistic thinking is considered "inspiration" but perhaps only by those who lack it and therefore cannot understand it: it seems like magic.

The bottom line is that thinking in spatial patterns certainly would enable you to perceive what is missing.

More like realizing what you expected and what failed to materialize. The absence is more indicative of internal processing than it is of the external world. In the meantime ponder my sig.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[dennislmay]

Your major thesis - the epistemological problem of the unperceived - is less tractable, and more interesting, itself a unseen problem you seek to solve.

The epistemological problem of the unperceived seems related to two other problems I have become interested in over the years - innumeracy and compartmentalization [some form of axiomatic holistic reasoning being the ideal]. The question of visual-spatial analytical reasoning seems to relate to all of these issues. ...

The unperceived can be related to visual-spatial analytical reasoning in some instances by thinking in patterns and perceiving what is both present and missing in the pattern.

That's pretty interesting. I can understand the power in that. I believe that many people think the way you do and now I question the value of schooling them in linear thinking - and grading their esteem on their ability to do what it not natural for them.

On the other hand, is spatial thinking teachable or learnable?

Holistic thinking is considered "inspiration" but perhaps only by those who lack it and therefore cannot understand it: it seems like magic.

The bottom line is that thinking in spatial patterns certainly would enable you to perceive what is missing.

Meeting a few people with unusual abilities over the years has given me a better understanding of potential I am missing and what others are missing.

I had one physics professor I would say was at the very extreme of mental endurance for learning - he was clearly bright but his ability to endure was extreme. He has a BS in physics at 18 then went to CalTech for graduate school in General Relativity. Some fellow students committed suicide, his first advisor died so he had to restart a new thesis, his second advisor committed suicide and they reshuffled the program with not enough advisors for him to continue [by then 9-10 years or so had gone by and he had taken essentially all the physics and mathematics courses available at the Phd level. He then transferred to the University of Nebraska and worked on his 3rd thesis for his PhD. When everything was finally done it had taken 11-12 years.

I was friends with an Air Force Officer who is autistic. While a young teen he suffered a series of strokes from which he recovered. He was now autistic but also high funcitoning socially and athetic to boot. He could memorize an entire page of numbers in a minutes then write them back down. He was a perfect student because he could memorize everything presented to him - graduating from college in 2 years while enlisted in the Air Force then went to OTS. Before either of us spoke about our pasts we both recognized that neither of us was quite normal.

I had a math professor in graduate school who had one interesting skill - he could perform square root operations in his head to 8 decimal places just like a calulator.

I had a friend who as a student at the time who could hear music played one time then play the entire thing on piano. He was self taught on the piano just from hearing it.

I have a few things not quite normal about me but one "skill" is something I have only seen in two other people I have met - extreme finger speed in repetitive motion. Both people who had it were half Native American half white, I am an unknown fraction Native American [somewhere between 1/16 and 1/4]. I timed myself in high school with pencil marks at 1200 repetitions per minute. I have slowed a little but can still inspire awe in childen :-) Of course the guy who is the quick draw champ of all time has my speed beat with hand and arm motion.

There are of course people with extreme senses of their physical kinetics, people with extreme language skills, those who can memorize enormous amounts of information and recall it instantly, and those who visually reason to perform amazing computational tasks, peope with extreme senses [i have extreme color vision according to AF testing], and people with extreme social skill for good or bad.

I am not sure to what extent visual-spatial reasoning can be taught but I know it can be tested for. Unfortunately it is a highly neglected area in the sciences. I remember one class in graduate thermodynamics where for 2 weeks I wanted to stand up and scream "all you all fucking retarded" when a class assignment lectured on for 2 weeks had a 5 second visual-spatial solution that no one else was able to see. I tried to explain that to the professor a couple minutes into the 2 week lecture but he wouldn't hear of it - so I sat there for 10 - one hour long lectures listening to the wrong way to solve the problem. At the end of 2 weeks someone else finally told him the answer and he just finished up in a minute or so at the beginning of a class and we moved on.

I am not sure people missing skills or senses can entirely understand what they are missing or entirely believe others have those skills. When we socialized we want to see in others what we have in ourselves to better unstand ourselves. I think I understand the skills and senses I am missing because I have them to some degree but what if I didn't have them at all - would I still understand?

Dennis

[dennislmay]

Your major thesis - the epistemological problem of the unperceived - is less tractable, and more interesting, itself a unseen problem you seek to solve.

The epistemological problem of the unperceived seems related to two other problems I have become interested in over the years - innumeracy and compartmentalization [some form of axiomatic holistic reasoning being the ideal]. The question of visual-spatial analytical reasoning seems to relate to all of these issues. ...

The unperceived can be related to visual-spatial analytical reasoning in some instances by thinking in patterns and perceiving what is both present and missing in the pattern.

That's pretty interesting. I can understand the power in that. I believe that many people think the way you do and now I question the value of schooling them in linear thinking - and grading their esteem on their ability to do what it not natural for them.

On the other hand, is spatial thinking teachable or learnable?

Holistic thinking is considered "inspiration" but perhaps only by those who lack it and therefore cannot understand it: it seems like magic.

The bottom line is that thinking in spatial patterns certainly would enable you to perceive what is missing.

More like realizing what you expected and what failed to materialize. The absence is more indicative of internal processing than it is of the external world. In the meantime ponder my sig.

Ba'al Chatzaf

We all create internal models of the outside world and expectations of it. The external world is predictable in many ways or we would die almost immediately. Visual-spatial reasoning is very much alive in technological form with various neural network pattern recognition systems. An example being old cruise missile terrain following systems, systems that identifiy aircraft and tanks, and various sensor fusion programs taking several "senses" [forms of data] and sorting the patterns into what is alike and what is different. The seen and the unseen.

Dennis