Curiosity on Mars!

[Ed Hudgins]

Curiosity on Mars!

August 6, 2012 – Today NASA’s Curiosity Rover landed on Mars. Its advanced instruments should bring humanity closer to knowing whether life exists on the Red Planet. Edward Hudgins discussed the “Spiritual Significance of Mars” during that planet’s closest approach to Earth in human history.

Hudgins believes that private companies will lead the way to humans landing on Mars. SpaceX founder Elon Musk has said Mars is his ultimate target. In “SpaceX’s Entrepreneurial Triumph,” Hudgins reflected on the recent successful berthing of that company’s Dragon capsule with the International Station.

[Evan]

I don't see what difference it would make if we found unfrozen water, or even life on Mars. Either way, the discovered creatures (if they did exist) would almost certainly not be rational. And even if they were, of what benefit would it be to us? Deal with the Earth. Interest in interplanetary travels arose from an advanced, wealthy civilization, frankly with altruistic intentions.

[Ed Hudgins]

Not altruistic at all! Aristotle opens his "Metaphysics" with "All men by nature desire to know." It is not altrusitic that I want to understand the nature of the world around me. It is not altruistic that I saved my money and bought a small telescope as a kid--with larger scope to follow as an adult!--because I was so fascinated by the stars and planets. It's not altruistic that individuals devote their lives to using their minds to discover life on other worlds or the nature and composition of the cosmos.

Of course, ultimately private parties should pay for such research. And if you, personally, find the quest for such knowledge boring and uninteresting, fine. You should focus on what you want out of life. But don't imoune the motives of others who are exercising that most basic human capacity after which the Mars lander is named: curiosity!

[BaalChatzaf]

Curiosity on Mars!

August 6, 2012 – Today NASA’s Curiosity Rover landed on Mars. Its advanced instruments should bring humanity closer to knowing whether life exists on the Red Planet. Edward Hudgins discussed the “Spiritual Significance of Mars” during that planet’s closest approach to Earth in human history.

Hudgins believes that private companies will lead the way to humans landing on Mars. SpaceX founder Elon Musk has said Mars is his ultimate target. In “SpaceX’s Entrepreneurial Triumph,” Hudgins reflected on the recent successful berthing of that company’s Dragon capsule with the International Station.

The only semi-sane reason for putting humans on Mars is to use it as a base camp for mining the asteroid belt. Other than that Mars is a sh*t hole.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Brant Gaede]

Curiosity on Mars!

August 6, 2012 – Today NASA’s Curiosity Rover landed on Mars. Its advanced instruments should bring humanity closer to knowing whether life exists on the Red Planet. Edward Hudgins discussed the “Spiritual Significance of Mars” during that planet’s closest approach to Earth in human history.

Hudgins believes that private companies will lead the way to humans landing on Mars. SpaceX founder Elon Musk has said Mars is his ultimate target. In “SpaceX’s Entrepreneurial Triumph,” Hudgins reflected on the recent successful berthing of that company’s Dragon capsule with the International Station.

The only semi-sane reason for putting humans on Mars is to use it as a base camp for mining the asteroid belt. Other than that Mars is a sh*t hole.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Bob, we're sending you.

--Brant

a sane reason

[Ed Hudgins]

Brant – Don’t send Ba'al Chatzaf! We’re going to have thriving colonies of optimistic, innovative, can-do pioneering. Ba’al will be a buzz kill, telling them that they’re all wasting their time and that all those incredible scientific discoveries are of little import and that they’re will all probably die anyway.

Ba’al – I believe what you’re saying is grrr, grrrr, grunt, grumble, grumble, grunt, grrrrrrrrrr! Do I understand you correctly? Don’t worry, we won’t send you to Mars but we will send you a nice post card from the Red Planet when we get there!

Best,

Astro-Ed

[BaalChatzaf]

Brant – Don't send Ba'al Chatzaf! We're going to have thriving colonies of optimistic, innovative, can-do pioneering. Ba'al will be a buzz kill, telling them that they're all wasting their time and that all those incredible scientific discoveries are of little import and that they're will all probably die anyway.

Ba'al – I believe what you're saying is grrr, grrrr, grunt, grumble, grumble, grunt, grrrrrrrrrr! Do I understand you correctly? Don't worry, we won't send you to Mars but we will send you a nice post card from the Red Planet when we get there!

Best,

Astro-Ed

You want to live on another world? The Moon is a better choice. Why? It is close enough to be supported from the ground. It may have water. And it is loaded with Hydrogen 3 which is the only fusion material likely to produce a controlled, sustained fusion reaction. In addition, the Dark Side is telescope city. It is the ideal place to build observatories. No atmosphere. Good seeing. And repair missions can be done on Moon ground in a gravitational field which is also supportable from Earth. Moon first. Mars later, when we are ready to mine the asteroids.

I am not negative on exploration. I just wish to do it intelligently. Going to Mars on a gung-ho impulse is not intelligent. Going to the Moon to build sustainable habitats off planet is.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[syrakusos]

Ten Reasons Not to Go to America - 1612 1712

by Baal of Chatsworth

1. There is no gold - or silver. The Spanish took what the Aztecs and Incas had and no reports by Hudson or Cabot or anyone else indicate any material wealth among the natives of North America.

2. The natives are hostile. Terrible raids by savages take the lives of women and children as well as men all of who suffer horrible tortures for sport as captives.

3. Europe is six weeks away.

4. Imports are expensive.

5. Industry is wholly lacking -- and forbidden by law.

6. Trade is controlled by English monopolies. All exports must be to England (or France) and imports can come only from England (or France).

7. Wars between France and England wrack the colonies of both inciting the natives (see above).

8. The immigrants are rejects, outcasts, religious fanatics, cranks, kooks, nut-jobs, and dreamers. Drunkenness is the only amusement.

9. European building techniques are inappropriate. Homes catch fire because of the drying conditions in seasons not known here.

10. Colonies are a drain on the homeland and inevitably, France and England will get tired of paying for soldiers, exporting finished goods in return for commodities of dubious value, and fending off pirates and privateers to maintain communication.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Ed,

I share your dreams.

Michael

[caroljane]

Ten Reasons Not to Go to America - 1612 1712

by Baal of Chatsworth

1. There is no gold - or silver. The Spanish took what the Aztecs and Incas had and no reports by Hudson or Cabot or anyone else indicate any material wealth among the natives of North America.

2. The natives are hostile. Terrible raids by savages take the lives of women and children as well as men all of who suffer horrible tortures for sport as captives.

3. Europe is six weeks away.

4. Imports are expensive.

5. Industry is wholly lacking -- and forbidden by law.

6. Trade is controlled by English monopolies. All exports must be to England (or France) and imports can come only from England (or France).

7. Wars between France and England wrack the colonies of both inciting the natives (see above).

8. The immigrants are rejects, outcasts, religious fanatics, cranks, kooks, nut-jobs, and dreamers. Drunkenness is the only amusement.

9. European building techniques are inappropriate. Homes catch fire because of the drying conditions in seasons not known here.

10. Colonies are a drain on the homeland and inevitably, France and England will get tired of paying for soldiers, exporting finished goods in return for commodities of dubious value, and fending off pirates and privateers to maintain communication.

lol. but even in 2012 as in 1712, there is no rush to colonize Antarctica...

[Selene]

Bob...

Remember, the moon is a harsh mistress!

Tanstaafl...baby!

Adam

[Mikee]

More and better rovers, more and better space telescopes. I agree with Bob, a habitat on the moon first. I'd like to see habitats in the Antarctic, just for drill.

The Curiosity is just f_n awesome. I sweat blood hoping everything would go well. Super congrats to the JPL "geeks and nerds". You guys rock!

[Ed Hudgins]

The Antarctic Treaty bans economic development and exploitation of that continent. Thus the governments of the world have managed to keep it in just the state into which they will make of all countries if they're allowed to: a barren wasteland unfit for human habitation.

[Mikee]

Ummm. Kind of a buzz kill Ed.

I suppose if enough governments are able to establish a presence in space we'll have to make the same kind of treaty regarding the moon... Regarding politics; gives the meaning to the phrase "Scum sucking bastards".

[Ed Hudgins]

Yes, that's why private parties need to ignore some of the implications of the Outer Space Treaty and get to the Moon and Mars first, establish colonies, and go all Heinlein! That's why British astronomer Martin Rees is scared that Mars will be a new Wild West. (See my piece "Ocean of Profits.")

[BaalChatzaf]

Ed,

I share your dreams.

Michael

I dream of a better propulsion system. Burn and Coast uses the same physical principle as the Chinese rockets of the Tang Dynasty.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Ed Hudgins]

Ba'al - Chemical propulsion can work just fine. It's not your prejudices in such matters that count but, rather, economics. Bob Zubrin's plan to get to Mars would cut costs by creating return fuel out of the CO2 in the Martian atmosphere, thus no need to carry that fuel all the way to Mars. But SpaceX engineer tells me that Elon Musk might get costs down low enough that they won't need to use Zubrin's approach. If they've told you different, let me know, of course.

See you on the Red Planet!

[Selene]

More and better rovers, more and better space telescopes. I agree with Bob, a habitat on the moon first. I'd like to see habitats in the Antarctic, just for drill.

The Curiosity is just f_n awesome. I sweat blood hoping everything would go well. Super congrats to the JPL "geeks and nerds". You guys rock!

According to Rush, the "geeks" used 500,000 lines of code to effect that miraculous adaptive landing.

[BaalChatzaf]

Ba'al - Chemical propulsion can work just fine. It's not your prejudices in such matters that count but, rather, economics. Bob Zubrin's plan to get to Mars would cut costs by creating return fuel out of the CO2 in the Martian atmosphere, thus no need to carry that fuel all the way to Mars. But SpaceX engineer tells me that Elon Musk might get costs down low enough that they won't need to use Zubrin's approach. If they've told you different, let me know, of course.

See you on the Red Planet!

Burn and Coast means being zero g most of the trip. Lets see. A minimum of 6 months at zero g. No matter how hard the crew exercises they are going to lose 40 percent of their bone. After they make fuel out of Martian CO2 (I would really like to see that) they will lose an equivalent amount on the return trip and be fit to live in wheel chairs the rest of their lives.

Until we have a decent propulsion system that can produce acceleration the entire trip, long journeys using Burn and Coast are suicide missions.

However going to the Moon means a max of 4 days at zero G. The moon is 1/6 g but it is sufficient to keep a human body in reasonable condition.

Zubin rides his hobby horse and his predictions of judgments are way too optimistic. Mars is a shit hole. What is there on Mars that we can make a profit from? The only answer I know is that it is a good home camp for mining the asteroid belt for which we have at present zero technology. Zero, zilch, nada.

First things first. For long distance journeys let us develop a propulsion system more advanced than Tang Dynasty Rockets.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[BaalChatzaf]

Curiosity on Mars!

August 6, 2012 – Today NASA’s Curiosity Rover landed on Mars. Its advanced instruments should bring humanity closer to knowing whether life exists on the Red Planet. Edward Hudgins discussed the “Spiritual Significance of Mars” during that planet’s closest approach to Earth in human history.

Hudgins believes that private companies will lead the way to humans landing on Mars. SpaceX founder Elon Musk has said Mars is his ultimate target. In “SpaceX’s Entrepreneurial Triumph,” Hudgins reflected on the recent successful berthing of that company’s Dragon capsule with the International Station.

What profit can be gotten from Mars, other than mining the asteroids?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Brant Gaede]

Curiosity on Mars!

August 6, 2012 – Today NASA’s Curiosity Rover landed on Mars. Its advanced instruments should bring humanity closer to knowing whether life exists on the Red Planet. Edward Hudgins discussed the “Spiritual Significance of Mars” during that planet’s closest approach to Earth in human history.

Hudgins believes that private companies will lead the way to humans landing on Mars. SpaceX founder Elon Musk has said Mars is his ultimate target. In “SpaceX’s Entrepreneurial Triumph,” Hudgins reflected on the recent successful berthing of that company’s Dragon capsule with the International Station.

What profit can be gotten from Mars, other than mining the asteroids?

Ba'al Chatzaf

Let's say we don't yet know--so therefore . . . ?

--Brant

[BaalChatzaf]

Let's say we don't yet know--so therefore . . . ?

--Brant

So lets invest where we do know. The Moon has just the right place to build advanced astronomical observatories. It has hydrogen 3 deposits which may prove useful for controlled nuclear fusion. And it has some water which means we can build some sustainable habitats there. The moon is also a natural jump off point for further exploration. It has light gravity so it can be used as an assembly point for large vessels for further exploration of the solar system. It is also a good place to test nuclear engines and ion drive engines. The Moon has several useful things going for it. What does Mars have that we know about. Maybe some water.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[syrakusos]

Ummm. Kind of a buzz kill Ed.

I suppose if enough governments are able to establish a presence in space we'll have to make the same kind of treaty regarding the moon... Regarding politics; gives the meaning to the phrase "Scum sucking bastards".

Actually, they do. As Ed notes, it is up to private entites not bound to the Space Treaty to develop the Moon, Mars, asteroids, etc., and whatever else is out there. The UN Space Treaty specifically enjoins all signatories against the economic exploitation of outer space.

On the same note, though, it is not the UN that prevents colonization of the Antarctic, but the nations who have divvied it up. A lot is going on there that we do not know about, but, on the surface (ahem) it is just a tourist spot.

[jts]

What profit can be gotten from Mars, other than mining the asteroids?

Ba'al Chatzaf

NASA, being an extension of government, has no interest in profit. It doesn't matter to them how much money they waste as long as they figure the tax payer has lots of money.

If those space missions were done by a company not connected to government and it was in business to make money, then it would either find a way to make money or else not do it.

[Selene]

What profit can be gotten from Mars, other than mining the asteroids?

Ba'al Chatzaf

NASA, being an extension of government, has no interest in profit. It doesn't matter to them how much money they waste as long as they figure the tax payer has lots of money.

If those space missions were done by a company not connected to government and it was in business to make money, then it would either find a way to make money or else not do it.

Or, miscalculate and fail as a business. It is called risk for a reason.