My Best Guess

[dennislmay]

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/05/29/truth-is-out-there-about-ufo-in-baltic-sea-swedish-scientists-say/?intcmp=features

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&biw=1485&bih=735&tbm=isch&tbnid=DkxdynbSguemsM:&imgrefurl=http://www.wyomingaerophoto.com/portfolio.htm&docid=Nwnxf35DC-Oy1M&imgurl=http://www.wyomingaerophoto.com/scr-devilstower.jpg&w=600&h=426&ei=gYXFT-HtFoTKsQLM95CVBg&zoom=1

Tinyurl decided not to work for me right now.

Not a UFO but still interesting.

Dennis

[BaalChatzaf]

http://www.foxnews.c...intcmp=features

http://www.google.co...LM95CVBg&zoom=1

Tinyurl decided not to work for me right now.

Not a UFO but still interesting.

Dennis

I agree. If it were a vessel from where did it come. Certainly not any planet in the solar system.

All the space faring folk in the Milky Way have the same problem as we do --- the speed of light.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Bryce]

http://www.foxnews.c...intcmp=features

http://www.google.co...LM95CVBg&zoom=1

Tinyurl decided not to work for me right now.

Not a UFO but still interesting.

Dennis

It looks like a rock. This is one of the mesas in my hometown:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=golden,+co&hl=en&ll=39.755563,-105.210703&spn=0.000747,0.001135&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=35.357014,74.355469&t=h&hnear=Golden,+Jefferson,+Colorado&z=20

All the space faring folk in the Milky Way have the same problem as we do --- the speed of light.

Ba'al Chatzaf

We're not close to knowing if the speed of light is a problem, to say nothing of overcoming it. The problem is advancing enough to have that problem.

[dennislmay]

All the space faring folk in the Milky Way have the same problem as we do --- the speed of light.

We're not close to knowing if the speed of light is a problem, to say nothing of overcoming it. The problem is advancing enough to have that problem.

Our Milky Way galaxy is about 120,000 light years in diameter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

I am no fan of assuming fast speeds when space is industrialized and settled. Unlike settling the Old West you need to bring industrialization with you as you travel - or pre-position/develop industrialization ahead of where you are traveling. Everything you need to live requires industrial processing.

From Wikipedia "An atomic (fission) Orion can achieve perhaps 3%-5% of the speed of light." - so lets use 3% the speed of light

as a benchmark.

I assume that among the trillions of cold low g bodies between each star and its nearest neighbor there is enough material to hop along and build up industrialization while spreading into space.

Lets assume short hops with one generation of build time and sending probes ahead before the next short hop. One generation is 26 years so lets assume 27 years between short hops and each hop being 1 year of travel. Since you have to speed up and slow down lets assume net 1.5% the speed of light during the short hops. So we have 0.015 light years of travel every 27 years. Proxima Centuri is 4.2 LY distant which amounts to 280 short hops = 7,560 years. Similarly about anywhere in the main part of the galaxy can be reached in 8 million years. This is a long time on the human time scale - a blip on geologic time scales.

With automation improving and probes sent ahead I assume the 27 year time between hops will be reduced. I also assume some technological improvement will occur so that 1.5% the speed of light can be improved upon - particularly for probes and automated systems moving ahead of settlement to set up industrial infrastructure.

The speed of light is not the issue, fast spaceships is not the issue, habitable planets is not the issue, and traveling from star to star is not the issue. Everything you need is on the low-g cold bodies between the stars. The biggest industrial issue in space is heat rejection - not cold. Fission - breeder fission - hybrid fission-fusion - and fusion will supply the energy needed to spread into space indefinitely.

Our culture has developed an incorrect view of settling space. You need to look at it on geologic time scales. The first jumping off can happen any time.

Dennis

[BaalChatzaf]

Our culture has developed an incorrect view of settling space. You need to look at it on geologic time scales. The first jumping off can happen any time.

Dennis

On Earth, colonization was driven by glory and profit. Right now there is not a cent of profit in trying to colonize Mars, which is a shit hole. There are no spices and gold to be had on the other side of the voyage.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[dennislmay]

Our culture has developed an incorrect view of settling space. You need to look at it on geologic time scales. The first jumping off can happen any time.

Dennis

On Earth, colonization was driven by glory and profit. Right now there is not a cent of profit in trying to colonize Mars, which is a shit hole. There are no spices and gold to be had on the other side of the voyage.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Low g metal rich asteroids are of first interest. There is in fact gold and all manner of valuables to be had.

http://news.yahoo.com/asteroid-mining-venture-backed-google-execs-james-cameron-011205183.html

Dennis

[Mikee]

Much as I like the idea of travel between the stars and mining rocks in the solar system I think we have huge untapped resources and potentially habitable areas on earth when compared to space. What about Antarctica? A whole continent uninhabited. And the bottoms of the oceans? As difficult and inhospitable as these places are, aren't they more habitable than space?

[dennislmay]

Much as I like the idea of travel between the stars and mining rocks in the solar system I think we have huge untapped resources and potentially habitable areas on earth when compared to space. What about Antarctica? A whole continent uninhabited. And the bottoms of the oceans? As difficult and inhospitable as these places are, aren't they more habitable than space?

There is a great deal more wealth to be had in the asteroid belt than Antarctica and the bottom of oceans. Habitable areas have to be built in space. The resources available in our solar system allow more building room in space than the surface of the Earth has. In the short run Antarctica and the bottom of the oceans have things to offer but I don't see them as necessarily competing against space resources so much as against other Earth based resources. It isn't an either/or situation - mine them all. In space you have the opportunity for a single mining operation to obtain more metal than has been mined so far in all of human history by a wide margin.

If the free market is turned loose in space we will see growth like nothing seen before in human history.

Dennis

[BaalChatzaf]

.

If the free market is turned loose in space we will see growth like nothing seen before in human history.

Dennis

I will believe that when I see wealth and glory on the other side of the trip.

The Europeans did not get into exploration until they had sturdy enough and manageable ships. And they knew the spice and the gold was waiting for them at the Other End.

Currently we have burn and coast technology. That puts us approximately where the Chinese were during the Tang Dynasty.

I will believe all that wealth can be tapped when we get decent propulsion systems, which we do not have at this time.

Right now we have bupkis.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Xray]

In about four billion years, our galaxy and Andromeda will collide:

The Andromeda galaxy is moving toward our Milky Way at about 250,000 miles per hour.

http://www.dailymail...eda-galaxy.html

From the article:

The head-on encounter is expected to happen four billion years from now - catapulting our sun to another area of the galaxy, with stars tossed on to different orbits, astronomers at the Space Telescope Science Institute revealed on Thursday.

[Brant Gaede]

In about four billion years, our galaxy and Andromeda will collide:

http://www.dailymail...eda-galaxy.html

From the article:

The head-on encounter is expected to happen four billion years from now - catapulting our sun to another area of the galaxy, with stars tossed on to different orbits, astronomers at the Space Telescope Science Institute revealed on Thursday.

Enjoy the 1951 George Pal movie, When World's Collide.

--Brant

[Selene]

In about four billion years, our galaxy and Andromeda will collide:

The Andromeda galaxy is moving toward our Milky Way at about 250,000 miles per hour.

http://www.dailymail...eda-galaxy.html

From the article:

The head-on encounter is expected to happen four billion years from now - catapulting our sun to another area of the galaxy, with stars tossed on to different orbits, astronomers at the Space Telescope Science Institute revealed on Thursday.

Typical female fear reaction...

all we have to do is duck...

[Xray]

Typical female fear reaction...

all we have to do is duck...

... and cover, eh?

And the typical male reaction woud be what? "Let's fight back, guys"?