A law requiring a superior product to be labelled as superior??

[jts]

In Vermont they are trying to pass a law requiring a superior product to be labelled as a superior product. The company that made this superior product wants people to not know that they are getting a superior product.

Usually when a company makes a superior product, they brag about it and they often spend lots of money bragging about it. But here is a company that made a superior product and they are acting like they are ashamed of it.

If you think I'm making up this story, click on the link and read it for yourself.

http://www.naturalne...O_labeling.html

[Brant Gaede]

Monsanto is possibly the world's most evil corporation. Wait until there is a world-wide grain crop failure caused by its seeds and hundreds of millions die.

--Brant

[BaalChatzaf]

Monsanto is possibly the world's most evil corporation. Wait until there is a world-wide grain crop failure caused by its seeds and hundreds of millions die.

--Brant

When do you expect this to happen? Why hasn't it happened already?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[BaalChatzaf]

In Vermont they are trying to pass a law requiring a superior product to be labelled as a superior product. The company that made this superior product wants people to not know that they are getting a superior product.

Usually when a company makes a superior product, they brag about it and they often spend lots of money bragging about it. But here is a company that made a superior product and they are acting like they are ashamed of it.

If you think I'm making up this story, click on the link and read it for yourself.

http://www.naturalne...O_labeling.html

Every plant and animal on the face of the earth is a genetic modification of a genetic ancestor. What is wrong with genetic modification.

We humans are a genetic modifications of prior existing primate species.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Brant Gaede]

Monsanto is possibly the world's most evil corporation. Wait until there is a world-wide grain crop failure caused by its seeds and hundreds of millions die.

--Brant

When do you expect this to happen? Why hasn't it happened already?

Ba'al Chatzaf

Why hasn't the life destroying asteroid hit us yet? The problem is uniformity of seed stock and the necessity of buying new seed each year for the plant is not reproducible. It was the genetic uniformity of the Irish potato that was the main cause of its blight, Irish mass starvation in the early 19th C. and the big impetus for Irish immigration to this country.

--Brant

[caroljane]

Monsanto is possibly the world's most evil corporation. Wait until there is a world-wide grain crop failure caused by its seeds and hundreds of millions die.

--Brant

When do you expect this to happen? Why hasn't it happened already?

Ba'al Chatzaf

Why hasn't the life destroying asteroid hit us yet? The problem is uniformity of seed stock and the necessity of buying new seed each year for the plant is not reproducible. It was the genetic uniformity of the Irish potato that was the main cause of its blight, Irish mass starvation in the early 19th C. and the big impetus for Irish immigration to this country.

--Brant

Correct, but it should be noted that the lethally foolish policy of encouraging the Irish to grow only potatoes, expecting one crop to sustain a population, ensured that the famine would be so devastating.

[jts]

In Vermont they are trying to pass a law requiring a superior product to be labelled as a superior product. The company that made this superior product wants people to not know that they are getting a superior product.

Usually when a company makes a superior product, they brag about it and they often spend lots of money bragging about it. But here is a company that made a superior product and they are acting like they are ashamed of it.

If you think I'm making up this story, click on the link and read it for yourself.

http://www.naturalne...O_labeling.html

Every plant and animal on the face of the earth is a genetic modification of a genetic ancestor. What is wrong with genetic modification.

Did I say something is wrong with it?

[jts]

In Vermont they are trying to pass a law requiring a superior product to be labelled as a superior product. The company that made this superior product wants people to not know that they are getting a superior product.

Usually when a company makes a superior product, they brag about it and they often spend lots of money bragging about it. But here is a company that made a superior product and they are acting like they are ashamed of it.

If you think I'm making up this story, click on the link and read it for yourself.

http://www.naturalne...O_labeling.html

Every plant and animal on the face of the earth is a genetic modification of a genetic ancestor. What is wrong with genetic modification.

We humans are a genetic modifications of prior existing primate species.

Ba'al Chatzaf

If all you know about what Monsanto is doing is that they are doing genetic modification, then you can ask rhetorically what's wrong with genetic modification. Wrong question. Instead of looking at the subject in a general philosophical way, look at the details of how they do it and how they test it and the results. Then you will learn something. The best source of info about GMO is Jeffrey Smith. Do a search on him and listen to all his lectures and to all his interviews. Inform yourself. Forget philosophy.

But I did not say GMO are bad, at least not in the above quote. I was trying to be funny. I posted in the humor section. Monsanto is acting like it's ashamed of a superior product that it created.

[BaalChatzaf]

Forget philosophy.

I don't do philosophy. I stated a fact. Each and every one of us is a product of genetic modification. What is wrong with genetic modification?

Does Monsanto do it wrong? If so, state how simply.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Brant Gaede]

Monsanto is possibly the world's most evil corporation. Wait until there is a world-wide grain crop failure caused by its seeds and hundreds of millions die.

--Brant

When do you expect this to happen? Why hasn't it happened already?

Ba'al Chatzaf

Why hasn't the life destroying asteroid hit us yet? The problem is uniformity of seed stock and the necessity of buying new seed each year for the plant is not reproducible. It was the genetic uniformity of the Irish potato that was the main cause of its blight, Irish mass starvation in the early 19th C. and the big impetus for Irish immigration to this country.

--Brant

Correct, but it should be noted that the lethally foolish policy of encouraging the Irish to grow only potatoes, expecting one crop to sustain a population, ensured that the famine would be so devastating.

It wasn't just that. It was one type of potato--the genetic uniformity.

--Brant

[jts]

Forget philosophy.

I don't do philosophy. I stated a fact. Each and every one of us is a product of genetic modification. What is wrong with genetic modification?

Does Monsanto do it wrong? If so, state how simply.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Someone writes a poor novel, what's wrong with novel writing? Is that proof that it's a good novel? By 'philosophy' I meant drawing conclusions about something without examining it.

When we talk about GMO, we don't mean natural selection that has been happening for billions of years or artificial selection that has been happening for thousands of years. There is no way by natural or artificial selection that you could get a cross between a goat and a spider or a tomato and a fish or a corn and a bacteria.

If you want to know what GMO is about, there is no way except by doing your homework.

The Dangers of Genetically Modified Food - Jeffery Smith Lecture - FULL VERSION video 1 hour

This is my attempt to explain it briefly in my own way. Everyone who has experience with making computer programs knows that it is code test, code test, code test. You write or modify some code, then test it. Write or modify some more code and test it. Don't do too much coding without testing. This is how nature writes DNA code, in a manner of speaking. A tiny modification, then test it over a few generations and maybe millions of individuals. Another tiny modification and a huge amount of testing. Artificial selection is the same deal except it's a little faster and probably less (but probably adequate) testing.

What Monsanto does is different. If a computer programmer did with computer code what Monsanto does with DNA, it would be first of all the computer programmer does not understand the language or the code very well. Then he takes a piece of code from different program and inserts it more or less randomly into the program that he is trying to modify. With DNA they seem to never foresee all the consequences. And the consequences seem to be mostly bad. Bad computer code can be discarded. Bad DNA code is not so easy to discard after it gets out.

Jeffrey Smith explains it better than I can. Listen to the whole lecture for a proper presentation of the subject. Search "Jeffrey Smith" for more videos and websites.

[BaalChatzaf]

Jeffrey Smith explains it better than I can. Listen to the whole lecture for a proper presentation of the subject. Search "Jeffrey Smith" for more videos and websites.

Is Jeffery Smith a geneticist? If not, why should one pay attention to him. If so, please list some of his published papers.

I don't do videos. I read articles from refereed scientific journals.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[jts]

<p>

</p>

<p>Is Jeffery Smith a geneticist? If not, why should one pay attention to him. If so, please list some of his published papers.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I don't do videos. I read articles from refereed scientific journals.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Ba'al Chatzaf</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I don't understand your rules of evidence.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>If someone with the right credentials presents the evidence, it is good evidence; if someone without the right credentials presents the exact same evidence, it is not good evidence. Why does the validity of evidence depend on who the messenger is when he gives sources that you can check out?</p>

<p> </p>

<p>If a farmer observes that his animals do well on normal corn but are harmed by bt corn, and other farmers have the same experience, that doesn't count as evidence because the farmers are not geneticists. Why? If you were a farmer and a geneticist told you bt corn is perfectly good corn for your animals, would you give bt corn to your animals?</p>

<p> </p>

<p>If the referees of the scientific journals are from Monsanto or from the FDA (Fraud and Deception Administration), then the game probably is rigged.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>If the geneticists work for Monsanto and are paid by Monsanto, the game probably is rigged.</p>

<p> </p>

<p> </p>

<p>What are the revenue sources of the refereed scientific journals? Do they publish stuff that slams their revenue sources?</p>

<div> </div>

[BaalChatzaf]

Its every simple. Genetics is a complicated science. When someone has something important to say about genetics I look for his/her scientific qualifications. Since we rely on expert testimony, as it were, we must be careful to choose experts who know what they are talking about.

Important scientific findings are first published in refereed scientific journals and then simplifications appear in the mass media press and t.v.

Do you remember Pons and Fleischer and their "cold fusion". Where did they publish first? In the mass press, not in a proper physics journal. Why? Because if the had submitted their findings to scientifically competent referees they would have been shot down pronto. It turns out that later checking done accord to careful experimental protocols proved that their claims were bogus. Now you know why I don't do videos unless there is some proper scientific backing..

If Monsanto were doing incorrect genetic work, their flaws would have been exposed according to scientific protocols. Were they? If so, give a scientific reference, not some cockyeyed video.

Does this answer your question?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Dglgmut]

Every plant and animal on the face of the earth is a genetic modification of a genetic ancestor. What is wrong with genetic modification.

We humans are a genetic modifications of prior existing primate species.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I don't think genetic modification can do as much as people hope. I mean, our food gets its nutrition value from the soil, which is being reused constantly. Fruits and vegetables are a lot less nutritious than they used to be, even if genetic modification has helped them grow bigger and store longer.

But the type of genetic modifications that inhibit reproductive functions of fruit and vegetables is what's most worrying.

[BaalChatzaf]

But the type of genetic modifications that inhibit reproductive functions of fruit and vegetables is what's most worrying.

If the plants do not flourish people will stop using the GM version and go to other plants. Farmers require seed a buds for next year's crops.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Dglgmut]

I don't know the ins-and-outs, but I don't think anyone would willingly agree to buy seeds from a certain company if they know they've been altered so they have to be re-bought each year.

It sounds like a conspiracy!

[BaalChatzaf]

I don't think genetic modification can do as much as people hope. I mean, our food gets its nutrition value from the soil, which is being reused constantly. Fruits and vegetables are a lot less nutritious than they used to be, even if genetic modification has helped them grow bigger and store longer.

Is there any scientific data to back that assertion up? Why do you think carrots have less vitamin A than they used to, for example. Or tomatoes less vitamin C.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Dglgmut]

I wouldn't bet my life on it, but here's an article with additional links on the bottom: http://www.care2.com...nutritious.html

I'm not that into science and that, but I heard also that weeds that we spend a lot of energy (and harmful chemicals) killing actually have long roots that absorb nutrients from up to hundreds of feet deep and bring them up to the top soil. And it makes sense to me that using the same soil for hundreds of years is likely not allowing the natural recycling of nutrients that has sustained life on this planet far longer than farmers have.

I'm not as worried about genetically modified food as I think we need to think about how the nutrients actually get into the food. Apparently farmers add certain things to the soil, but nature is so complicated they can't possibly be doing much good. It's like how everything says "With Added Vitamin C" and really it's just ascorbic acid, which is not vitamin C at all.

[jts]

I don't think genetic modification can do as much as people hope. I mean, our food gets its nutrition value from the soil, which is being reused constantly. Fruits and vegetables are a lot less nutritious than they used to be, even if genetic modification has helped them grow bigger and store longer.

Is there any scientific data to back that assertion up? Why do you think carrots have less vitamin A than they used to, for example. Or tomatoes less vitamin C.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Strictly speaking, carrots don't have vitamin A; they have various kinds of carotenes. Carotenes get converted to vitamin A up to as much as we need.

The USDA (United States Department of Agriculture) puts out data about foods and nutrients. They update the data from time to time. The last time I looked the database had about 7500 foods and 140 nutrients. Someone observed that the amount of some nutrients in some foods changed. For more details, click the link. Or don't, because it's on the soilandhealth website.

Vegetables without Vitamins

Here is the Rutgers experiment showing that soil influences mineral composition of veggies. But it is on the soilandhealth website and therefore is not valid evidence.

Variation in Mineral Composition of Vegetables

[BaalChatzaf]

I wouldn't bet my life on it, but here's an article with additional links on the bottom: http://www.care2.com...nutritious.html

I'm not that into science and that, but I heard also that weeds that we spend a lot of energy (and harmful chemicals) killing actually have long roots that absorb nutrients from up to hundreds of feet deep and bring them up to the top soil. And it makes sense to me that using the same soil for hundreds of years is likely not allowing the natural recycling of nutrients that has sustained life on this planet far longer than farmers have.

Crop rotation. Problem solved.

Ba'al Chatzaf