Rand through a Nietzsche filter

[Brant Gaede]

It's the universal dialectic of pose qua pose, pose as an end in itself, pose as both form and substance, pose without meaning.

Ephemeral glimpses of nothingness in search of an audience.

Michael

A few more posts like this and you'll be gone.

--Brant

did he ever return, did he ever return? his fate is still unlearned--gone forever beneath the streets of Boston, Michael never returned

[caroljane]

It's the universal dialectic of pose qua pose, pose as an end in itself, pose as both form and substance, pose without meaning.

Ephemeral glimpses of nothingness in search of an audience.

Michael

A few more posts like this and you'll be gone.

--Brant

did he ever return, did he ever return? his fate is still unlearned--gone forever beneath the streets of Boston, Michael never returned

MTA I love it!

"And through the open window Kat hands him a sandwich

as the train* comes rumblin' through!"

*John Galt line of course

[seymourblogger]

I agree Rand's writing is terrible in WTL, but it is also terrible in Atlas, but that is precisely what makes it perfct for the theme she is writing about. Later I will get into her style.

Janet, What do you think is "terrible writing" in Atlas Shrugged? Too bad Jeff Riggenbach is currently not posting here. For he thinks Rand is one of the greatest writers of the 20th century.

I'll answer you at solo.

I'd prefer you to answer it here since you have decided to come back to OL. On another thread, you wrote that you want to place Rand among the post-modernist philosophers. What are your criteria for this? But Rand certainly is no postmodern writer. I have dug out some old notes from a seminar on modern vs postmodern literature I attended during my student years; the characteristics of post-modern llterature listed there in no way fit Rand's writing. On the contrary, those post-modern traits are diametrically opposed to everything Rand valued highly, for example the disjunction, deconstruction, the indetermination, the refusal to offer a definite meaning, to name but a few. All that is completely un-Randian.

I forget, so tellen muttle will insult me again, but did I already mention to you that Fountainhead has a great deal of aphoristic writing in it. This is Nietzsche, and although he died more than 100 years ago, the aphorism is a post modern kind of trope,a special form of style requiring the reader to let the meaning resonate, to ruminate on it. As Nietzsche said, "Words written in blood are meant to be learnt by heart, not to be just read." Think Novalis, Wittgenstein. And of course Nietzsche. Rand wrote her words in blood. She gave up mother Russia, never an easy thing for a writer, (ask Solzhenitsyn) learned English, wrote in English so she gave up her mother tongue, but kept her accent, gave up her family, all to write her words in blood because that's what it cost her.

[caroljane]

I agree Rand's writing is terrible in WTL, but it is also terrible in Atlas, but that is precisely what makes it perfct for the theme she is writing about. Later I will get into her style.

Janet, What do you think is "terrible writing" in Atlas Shrugged? Too bad Jeff Riggenbach is currently not posting here. For he thinks Rand is one of the greatest writers of the 20th century.

I'll answer you at solo.

I'd prefer you to answer it here since you have decided to come back to OL. On another thread, you wrote that you want to place Rand among the post-modernist philosophers. What are your criteria for this? But Rand certainly is no postmodern writer. I have dug out some old notes from a seminar on modern vs postmodern literature I attended during my student years; the characteristics of post-modern llterature listed there in no way fit Rand's writing. On the contrary, those post-modern traits are diametrically opposed to everything Rand valued highly, for example the disjunction, deconstruction, the indetermination, the refusal to offer a definite meaning, to name but a few. All that is completely un-Randian.

I forget, so tellen muttle will insult me again, but did I already mention to you that Fountainhead has a great deal of aphoristic writing in it. This is Nietzsche, and although he died more than 100 years ago, the aphorism is a post modern kind of trope,a special form of style requiring the reader to let the meaning resonate, to ruminate on it. As Nietzsche said, "Words written in blood are meant to be learnt by heart, not to be just read." Think Novalis, Wittgenstein. And of course Nietzsche. Rand wrote her words in blood. She gave up mother Russia, never an easy thing for a writer, (ask Solzhenitsyn) learned English, wrote in English so she gave up her mother tongue, but kept her accent, gave up her family, all to write her words in blood because that's what it cost her.

Nonsense. She hated the Russia she lived in, cared little for her family, and gladly gave up her mother country and tongue for what she believed to be better ones for her own life and advancement.

[Xray]

The software here does lend itself to pro and con much better than at solo.

The absence of a simple and clear quote function at Solo makes posting over there quite tedious.

(Must feel like paradise for Phil though: no quote function! )

I have already answered your question partly on my blogs: guerrillablog ; cosmoplisfilm and intellectual terrorist, as all 3 have posts on Rand.

You can go over there and ask your question in the comments part and I can answer it there if you don't like solo software.

I can give you examples if you haven't identified them. But not here. I do not plan to be around here very much at all; just in certain circumstances.

I have already answered your question partly on my blogs: guerrillablog ; cosmoplisfilm and intellectual terrorist, as all 3 have posts on Rand.

You can go over there and ask your question in the comments part and I can answer it there if you don't like solo software.

I prefer forums to blogs because of the clearer structure. The few times I have posted on blogs, I often could not retrieve my own comments later because the blog was so cumbersome to navigate.

Aside from that, why should I register on yet another blog when it is here on OL where we are having the discussion? It would be like sending my colleague to get extra pens while we still have pens in abundance.

[Xray]

Rand wrote her words in blood. She gave up mother Russia, never an easy thing for a writer, (ask Solzhenitsyn) learned English, wrote in English so she gave up her mother tongue, but kept her accent, gave up her family, all to write her words in blood because that's what it cost her.

Nonsense. She hated the Russia she lived in, cared little for her family, and gladly gave up her mother country and tongue for what she believed to be better ones for her own life and advancement.

Janet,

Daunce is right: Rand loathed Russia. And as for keeping her heavy Russian accent, she certainly did not do this on purpose.

[seymourblogger]

The software here does lend itself to pro and con much better than at solo.

The absence of a simple and clear quote function at Solo makes posting over there quite tedious.

(Must feel like paradise for Phil though: no quote function! )

I have already answered your question partly on my blogs: guerrillablog ; cosmoplisfilm and intellectual terrorist, as all 3 have posts on Rand.

You can go over there and ask your question in the comments part and I can answer it there if you don't like solo software.

I can give you examples if you haven't identified them. But not here. I do not plan to be around here very much at all; just in certain circumstances.

I have already answered your question partly on my blogs: guerrillablog ; cosmoplisfilm and intellectual terrorist, as all 3 have posts on Rand.

You can go over there and ask your question in the comments part and I can answer it there if you don't like solo software.

I prefer forums to blogs because of the clearer structure. The few times I have posted on blogs, I often could not retrieve my own comments later because the blog was so cumbersome to navigate.

Aside from that, why should I register on yet another blog when it is here on OL where we are having the discussion? It would be like sending my colleague to get extra pens while we still have pens in abundance.

I have put all my blogs on disqus which makes it possible to integrate with many other blogs if yoou should so choose. If you want to retrieve you do it thru disqus. You can follow people and/or have people follow you. It's an efficient platform. You can shut out anyone you want or enable them. There are some fine blogs on disqus.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Seymourblogger,

What you wrote about me today on Solo Passion is unforgivable.

You spelled my name wrong and that's beyond the pale.

Michael

[seymourblogger]

Rand wrote her words in blood. She gave up mother Russia, never an easy thing for a writer, (ask Solzhenitsyn) learned English, wrote in English so she gave up her mother tongue, but kept her accent, gave up her family, all to write her words in blood because that's what it cost her.

Nonsense. She hated the Russia she lived in, cared little for her family, and gladly gave up her mother country and tongue for what she believed to be better ones for her own life and advancement.

Janet,

Daunce is right: Rand loathed Russia. And as for keeping her heavy Russian accent, she certainly did not do this on purpose.

Right/wrong and wrong/right keeps you stuck playing ping-pong. If that's what you want paddle away.

Once something is out there in simulated reality it's credible. Ask John Kerry who got swiftboated because he didn't know that.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

This is for OL readers. I was contacted offline, which is why I know about it.

The following quote is from one of Semourblogger's posts on SLOP (on this thread, dated 2012-02-07 20:13--sorry, have to do it that way because SLOP permalink feature doesn't work for posts when they get on the second page):

I wasn't going to post this, but what the hell. Since she is posting over here, readers have a right to know what she says about them (and me) elsewhere.

The context is that this woman is sucking up to Objectivist Liar and Hater Lindsay Perigo and talking about OL:

It only took a few days for me to find out who they were and MSK heads the bunch. Reminds me of the father of the family who incites competition and hostility in his children as a way of controlling them. It's a vey effective method until you wake up and realize that that's what he's doing.

I'd rather destroy him my way. Insidiously, with words. He's asked for it. And I can ruin him just doing what I do. I don't even have to try. And you know he is Rand's definition of evil. And Arendt's. Banal boy that he is.

Is that a mission statement?

Or just village gossip from a lonely old lady?

There's a lot more if anyone wants to go to that SLOP thread I linked to.

I want to feel mad, but I don't. I feel sorry for this person. That's not snark. Pity is the emotion that is in my heart. It makes me want to do something to help her to make her pain go away, but I can't think of anything that would make a difference.

Michael

[PDS]

This is for OL readers. I was contacted offline, which is why I know about it.

The following quote is from one of Semourblogger's posts on SLOP (on this thread, dated 2012-02-07 20:13--sorry, have to do it that way because SLOP permalink feature doesn't work for posts when they get on the second page):

I wasn't going to post this, but what the hell. Since she is posting over here, readers have a right to know what she says about them (and me) elsewhere.

The context is that this woman is sucking up to Objectivist Liar and Hater Lindsay Perigo and talking about OL:

It only took a few days for me to find out who they were and MSK heads the bunch. Reminds me of the father of the family who incites competition and hostility in his children as a way of controlling them. It's a vey effective method until you wake up and realize that that's what he's doing.

I'd rather destroy him my way. Insidiously, with words. He's asked for it. And I can ruin him just doing what I do. I don't even have to try. And you know he is Rand's definition of evil. And Arendt's. Banal boy that he is.

Is that a mission statement?

Or just village gossip from a lonely old lady?

There's a lot more if anyone wants to go to that SLOP thread I linked to.

I want to feel mad, but I don't. I feel sorry for this person. That's not snark. Pity is the emotion that is in my heart. It makes me want to do something to help her to make her pain go away, but I can't think of anything that would make a difference.

Michael

Goodness gracious, MSK. Very sad.

I hope you don't get "destroyed" in all of this.

[9thdoctor]

It only took a few days for me to find out who they were and MSK heads the bunch.

We’re no bunch, the Brady’s were a bunch; we’re a tribe, and when we grow up, we’ll be a clan!

[Ellen Stuttle]

The following quote is from one of Semourblogger's posts on SLOP (on this thread, dated 2012-02-07 20:13--sorry, have to do it that way because SLOP permalink feature doesn't work for posts when they get on the second page):

[...]

There's a lot more if anyone wants to go to that SLOP thread I linked to.

You didn't include a link.

The thread is titled "Happy Birthday Ayn Rand - Why You Are Still Misunderstood."

The software here does lend itself to pro and con much better than at solo.

The absence of a simple and clear quote function at Solo makes posting over there quite tedious.

(Must feel like paradise for Phil though: no quote function! )

Phil was banned on SOLO several years ago.

Ellen

[Brant Gaede]

The following quote is from one of Semourblogger's posts on SLOP (on this thread, dated 2012-02-07 20:13--sorry, have to do it that way because SLOP permalink feature doesn't work for posts when they get on the second page):

[...]

There's a lot more if anyone wants to go to that SLOP thread I linked to.

You didn't include a link.

The thread is titled "Happy Birthday Ayn Rand - Why You Are Still Misunderstood."

The software here does lend itself to pro and con much better than at solo.

The absence of a simple and clear quote function at Solo makes posting over there quite tedious.

(Must feel like paradise for Phil though: no quote function! )

Phil was banned on SOLO several years ago.

Ellen

Paradise Lost.

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

You didn't include a link.

Ellen,

Oops.

Thanks for providing it.

Michael

[Ellen Stuttle]

Paradise Lost.

link

[Edit: wiki link in case the first one, which goes to the Bartleby site, causes trouble for your browser]

OF MAN’S first disobedience, and the fruit

Of that forbidden tree whose mortal taste

Brought death into the World, and all our woe,

With loss of Eden, till one greater Man

Restore us, and regain the blissful Seat,

Sing, Heavenly Muse, that, on the secret top

Of Oreb, or of Sinai, didst inspire

That Shepherd who first taught the chosen seed

In the beginning how the heavens and earth

Rose out of Chaos: or, if Sion hill

Delight thee more, and Siloa’s brook that flowed

Fast by the oracle of God, I thence

Invoke thy aid to my adventrous song,

That with no middle flight intends to soar

Above the Aonian mount, while it pursues

Things unattempted yet in prose or rhyme.

And chiefly Thou, O Spirit, that dost prefer

Before all temples the upright heart and pure,

Instruct me, for Thou know’st; Thou from the first

Wast present, and, with mighty wings outspread,

Dove-like sat’st brooding on the vast Abyss,

And mad’st it pregnant: what in me is dark

Illumine, what is low raise and support;

That, to the highth of this great argument,

I may assert Eternal Providence,

And justify the ways of God to men.

Man, I love Milton.

Talk about a great first sentence (great first sentences were being talked about somewhere on this board).

Ellen

[caroljane]

"And malt does more than Milton can

to justify God's ways to man."

Gotta love Housman too.

[seymourblogger]

The following quote is from one of Semourblogger's posts on SLOP (on this thread, dated 2012-02-07 20:13--sorry, have to do it that way because SLOP permalink feature doesn't work for posts when they get on the second page): [...] There's a lot more if anyone wants to go to that SLOP thread I linked to.

You didn't include a link. The thread is titled "Happy Birthday Ayn Rand - Why You Are Still Misunderstood."

The software here does lend itself to pro and con much better than at solo.

The absence of a simple and clear quote function at Solo makes posting over there quite tedious. (Must feel like paradise for Phil though: no quote function! )

Phil was banned on SOLO several years ago. Ellen

Is that a threat?

[caroljane]

This is for OL readers. I was contacted offline, which is why I know about it.

The following quote is from one of Semourblogger's posts on SLOP (on this thread, dated 2012-02-07 20:13--sorry, have to do it that way because SLOP permalink feature doesn't work for posts when they get on the second page):

I wasn't going to post this, but what the hell. Since she is posting over here, readers have a right to know what she says about them (and me) elsewhere.

The context is that this woman is sucking up to Objectivist Liar and Hater Lindsay Perigo and talking about OL:

It only took a few days for me to find out who they were and MSK heads the bunch. Reminds me of the father of the family who incites competition and hostility in his children as a way of controlling them. It's a vey effective method until you wake up and realize that that's what he's doing.

I'd rather destroy him my way. Insidiously, with words. He's asked for it. And I can ruin him just doing what I do. I don't even have to try. And you know he is Rand's definition of evil. And Arendt's. Banal boy that he is.

Is that a mission statement?

Or just village gossip from a lonely old lady?

There's a lot more if anyone wants to go to that SLOP thread I linked to.

I want to feel mad, but I don't. I feel sorry for this person. That's not snark. Pity is the emotion that is in my heart. It makes me want to do something to help her to make her pain go away, but I can't think of anything that would make a difference.

Michael

Goodness gracious, MSK. Very sad.

I hope you don't get "destroyed" in all of this.

Alas the process has begun. By her own account the Mountain Guerilla "brought MSK to his intellectual knees" in eight short days. Her mentor Lindsay riposted that it would have taken anyone else much less time. No wonder he has adopted pomo non-linearism, since in real time he has been losing out to MSK in audience for several years now.

Though maybe Janet's lengthy presence there has boosted the fan base. She must have thousands of disciples.

[caroljane]

Cripes, don't they have a private message system on Solo? Or do they only use it to plan their takeover of Christchurch "probably by force, while the sheeple are asleep"?

[Ellen Stuttle]

The software here does lend itself to pro and con much better than at solo.

The absence of a simple and clear quote function at Solo makes posting over there quite tedious.

(Must feel like paradise for Phil though: no quote function! )

Phil was banned on SOLO several years ago.

Ellen

Is that a threat?

Information. Xray might not know of Phil's being banned on SOLO. I think that she joined OL after that event.

Ellen

[seymourblogger]

Paradise Lost.

link

[Edit: wiki link in case the first one, which goes to the Bartleby site, causes trouble for your browser]

OF MAN'S first disobedience, and the fruit

Of that forbidden tree whose mortal taste

Brought death into the World, and all our woe,

With loss of Eden, till one greater Man

Restore us, and regain the blissful Seat,

Sing, Heavenly Muse, that, on the secret top

Of Oreb, or of Sinai, didst inspire

That Shepherd who first taught the chosen seed

In the beginning how the heavens and earth

Rose out of Chaos: or, if Sion hill

Delight thee more, and Siloa's brook that flowed

Fast by the oracle of God, I thence

Invoke thy aid to my adventrous song,

That with no middle flight intends to soar

Above the Aonian mount, while it pursues

Things unattempted yet in prose or rhyme.

And chiefly Thou, O Spirit, that dost prefer

Before all temples the upright heart and pure,

Instruct me, for Thou know'st; Thou from the first

Wast present, and, with mighty wings outspread,

Dove-like sat'st brooding on the vast Abyss,

And mad'st it pregnant: what in me is dark

Illumine, what is low raise and support;

That, to the highth of this great argument,

I may assert Eternal Providence,

And justify the ways of God to men.

Man, I love Milton.

Talk about a great first sentence (great first sentences were being talked about somewhere on this board).

Ellen

Milton was vile to his daughter. Have you read her account?

[Xray]

Information. Xray might not know of Phil's being banned on SOLO. I think that she joined OL after that event.

Ellen

That's correct, I didn't know about him being banned from there. Thanks for the info, Ellen.

[seymourblogger]

The software here does lend itself to pro and con much better than at solo.

The absence of a simple and clear quote function at Solo makes posting over there quite tedious.

(Must feel like paradise for Phil though: no quote function! )

Phil was banned on SOLO several years ago.

Ellen

Is that a threat?

Information. Xray might not know of Phil's being banned on SOLO. I think that she joined OL after that event.

Ellen

What a fascinating piece of gossip. Shall we retire to the backyard and hang our wash while we gossip some more. Dang, just what I wanted to know today. What a gem of wisdom.

I hope I forget it by dinnertime.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Here's how to "ping-pong the inter-forum dialectic" in O-Land so you can get some attention if you're a lonely old lady.

1. Start out as a lonely old lady.

2. Go talk shit about OL on SLOP.

3. Come to OL and talk shit about SLOP.

4. Claim people are howling and pretend you are important.

5. Stand back and bask in the attention.

Step three isn't happening according to the formula this go-around because the dust hasn't settled enough for the pattern to work. All I would have to do is not say anything and that's where it would go.

I'm 100% certain of that.

You won't get high quality attention this way, but who's complaining when you have nothing? Hell, village gossip must be worth something to someone. And a half-glass of water to a person dying of thirst in the desert can save that person's life.

Michael