Penn State

[caroljane]

Speaking of ESL I was obliged to have "the conversation" about PSU with my Academic Writing class today, someone wanted the news stories explained. Thank god it wasn't my Level Ones, I think I will skip newspaper day for a while and hope they do not hear about it.My teaching skills are not up to it. In addition to never having heard an English word until last month, some of them alas (my favourites) are to use a technical term, dumb.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Carol,

He not only says he's from Germany, his IP resolves to Germany. The IP is one of the first things I check when a new poster shows up and there are some sparks.

I learned a lesson in Brazil many moons ago that is germane here. I directed the dubbing of several full-length feature motion pictures. I got this opportunity without going up through the ranks because there was a serious lack of English dubbers down there.

The only pool of English native speaking dubbers in São Paulo at that time was made up of family members of American and English executives working in Brazil, your run-of-the-mill lost soul traveling the world in search of paradise, people trying to run English language schools, and an odd person here and there.

This was a tough pool because, outside of nobody having done this before, dubbing a film under the old film-loop system (with rickety film projectors) could take a few months--especially with a large cast. I had to be sure the person would not travel during that time. You can't change a voice halfway through the picture. The people I met really liked the glamor of saying they worked in the movies (this was pre-YouTube), but not everyone was totally honest on this point.

I was pretty good at spotting the dreamers who would be unable to finish. Also, I had a knack for taking newbies through drama lab on the fly and my precision/synchronization skills were honed from being a professional musician. So they let me in the studio to learn dubbing while directing it.

Talk about trial by fire!

The first thing that hit me was that my vocal emotional expression was often vastly different than another person's. I trained dubbers by demonstrating the dialogue against the image--saying it myself. (This was the MSK system I made up on the spot so I wouldn't be fired by the film director. ) If the dubber imitated my way of saying a line--for example, being angry--sometimes it would sound really fake. Not always, but the times it happened were striking.

As I learned my job and several of the dubbers did theirs, too, I don't know how many times i would rehearse a dubber using my tone of voice as guide, but the dubber responded by doing his/her tone, a totally different one. When it was authentic, it worked--and it worked well. I don't know how many times I thought to myself that the dubber's emotion in a line was far better than the way I would have done it (and I was very good).

So I learned to let the dubber express these things his/her way--and to fish for the person's authentic voice, one that I did not know and neither did the dubber--even as I gave instructions and demonstrated.

This sensitivity (developed the hard way--learning it by the seat of my pants) is what I now use when I size up the form of expression of new posters.

Michael

[john42t]

Do they learn it at the (shudder) public schools?

My first English word to learn was "color", as that was a command in the C-16 basic when I started to teach myself programming at the age of 7.

Most of what I learned was in part from the public school system, but also from video games and American television, together with diligence, the joy of self-improvement and the firm belief that it's the language of the better.

Of my English lessons I vividly remember reading "Ecotopia", a novel about a "utopian" society ruled by a political caste of feminist women on the soil of California. All men had to built their own homes by hand, so that they know what's good for them.

On the subject matter, he didn't know words like waning and waxing, so he was just as incompetent as I've come to expect teachers to be.

I used to wonder why my suggestions of getting native speakers into schools to improve quality was met with hostility by both teachers and many other adults back then.

Now I know: To teach children was not their goal.

[caroljane]

Carol,

He not only says he's from Germany, his IP resolves to Germany. The IP is one of the first things I check when a new poster shows up and there are some sparks.

I learned a lesson in Brazil many moons ago that is germane here. I directed the dubbing of several full-length feature motion pictures. I got this opportunity without going up through the ranks because there was a serious lack of English dubbers down there.

The only pool of English native speaking dubbers in São Paulo at that time was made up of family members of American and English executives working in Brazil, your run-of-the-mill lost soul traveling the world in search of paradise, people trying to run English language schools, and an odd person here and there.

This was a tough pool because, outside of nobody having done this before, dubbing a film under the old film-loop system (with rickety film projectors) could take a few months--especially with a large cast. I had to be sure the person would not travel during that time. You can't change a voice halfway through the picture. The people I met really liked the glamor of saying they worked in the movies (this was pre-YouTube), but not everyone was totally honest on this point.

I was pretty good at spotting the dreamers who would be unable to finish. Also, I had a knack for taking newbies through drama lab on the fly and my precision/synchronization skills were honed from being a professional musician. So they let me in the studio to learn dubbing while directing it.

Talk about trial by fire!

The first thing that hit me was that my vocal emotional expression was often vastly different than another person's. I trained dubbers by demonstrating the dialogue against the image--saying it myself. (This was the MSK system I made up on the spot so I wouldn't be fired by the film director. ) If the dubber imitated my way of saying a line--for example, being angry--sometimes it would sound really fake. Not always, but the times it happened were striking.

As I learned my job and several of the dubbers did theirs, too, I don't know how many times i would rehearse a dubber using my tone of voice as guide, but the dubber responded by doing his/her tone, a totally different one. When it was authentic, it worked--and it worked well. I don't know how many times I thought to myself that the dubber's emotion in a line was far better than the way I would have done it (and I was very good).

So I learned to let the dubber express these things his/her way--and to fish for the person's authentic voice, one that I did not know and neither did the dubber--even as I gave instructions and demonstrated.

This sensitivity (developed the hard way--learning it by the seat of my pants) is what I now use when I size up the form of expression of new posters.

Michael

Oh, I never doubted John was from Gerany. I thought maybe he had an English speaking parent or otherwise learned English young.

Fascinating story about the dubbing. You have been around haven 't you? Ever think of writing a novel? Not a This is What I Learned and How I Learned It but a This is What I Did fictionalized.

You mentioned people trying to start language schools. I know a lot of people who have worked abroad teaching English. Some of my friends went to China after retirement to teach English. Free everything, including maids, Christmas on Thai beaches, $30,ooo for the year pure profit. At low points in our family finances my son used to suggest that I take a year in China. I actually considered it, it would have cleared up everything. But two snags were insuperable. One, I would have to quit my job and lose all my seniority, and come home to no job or keep going back to China and work hard, which I do not do here. Two, I would leave my house in the tender care of my then-20 year old son and his many, many friends. Uh, no.

[caroljane]

Do they learn it at the (shudder) public schools?

My first English word to learn was "color", as that was a command in the C-16 basic when I started to teach myself programming at the age of 7.

Most of what I learned was in part from the public school system, but also from video games and American television, together with diligence, the joy of self-improvement and the firm belief that it's the language of the better.

Of my English lessons I vividly remember reading "Ecotopia", a novel about a "utopian" society ruled by a political caste of feminist women on the soil of California. All men had to built their own homes by hand, so that they know what's good for them.

On the subject matter, he didn't know words like waning and waxing, so he was just as incompetent as I've come to expect teachers to be.

I used to wonder why my suggestions of getting native speakers into schools to improve quality was met with hostility by both teachers and many other adults back then.

Now I know: To teach children was not their goal.

I congratulate you on the success of your autodidactatorship. Your English is excellent. I admit I had not read many of your posts when I made my snap judgment on this, but it was a compliment.

I am sorry that your teachers did not want to teach children. Maybe they should instead have been teaching adults, as I do.

Carol

Public educator

[john42t]

Your English is excellent.

Apparently not. Thanks for the whose/who's issue, it's something that escapes the spellcheckers.

I am sorry that your teachers did not want to teach children. Maybe they should instead have been teaching adults, as I do.

They didn't want to teach anybody, they wanted to *appear* as if they do. That's why a suggestion like getting native speakers in is one they don't like: It's a threat to them.

Public educator

Makes sense.

[caroljane]

Your English is excellent.

Apparently not. Thanks for the whose/who's issue, it's something that escapes the spellcheckers.

I am sorry that your teachers did not want to teach children. Maybe they should instead have been teaching adults, as I do.

They didn't want to teach anybody, they wanted to *appear* as if they do. That's why a suggestion like getting native speakers in is one they don't like: It's a threat to them.

Public educator

Makes sense.

Yes , public education makes ultimate sense.

Here's the first thing I tell my writing students: SPELLCHECK IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. Native speakers make ridiculous fools of themselves using it. Canadians are incredibly bad spellers anyway, appallingly bad, except for me.

[john42t]

Yes , public education makes ultimate sense.

You are profiting from it.

[caroljane]

Yes , public education makes ultimate sense.

You are profiting from it.

Exactly. So are the students.

[caroljane]

Anyone notice that UScollege foootball coaches, unlike coaches at all levels everywhere else in the world, have hardly ever actually played? Quickly they have removed their vulnerable bodies from the slaughterhouse they rah-rah the kids onto. Long and fruitfully they motivate and strategize and win games and get rich. They never even walked the talk, really. They never thought the thought. They never even noticed that the flow they were going with, which they were directiing, was full of the foulest sewage. Even now they wonder what they are drowning in.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Carol,

I take it you don't like American football...

Michael

[Selene]

Anyone notice that UScollege foootball coaches, unlike coaches at all levels everywhere else in the world, have hardly ever actually played? Quickly they have removed their vulnerable bodies from the slaughterhouse they rah-rah the kids onto. Long and fruitfully they motivate and strategize and win games and get rich. They never even walked the talk, really. They never thought the thought. They never even noticed that the flow they were going with, which they were directiing, was full of the foulest sewage. Even now they wonder what they are drowning in.

Carol:

Since I do not really follow college football, I do not know whether your blatant assertion is true. Do you happen to have any evidence to support your claim?

In pro football the percentage is lower than I expected:

Of the 32 NFL head coaches that started the 2011 season, 28% played in the NFL ...

1) Ken Whisenhunt, Cardinals - TE for the Falcons, Redskins, and Jets between 1985-1992.

2) Ron Rivera, Panthers - LB for the Bears between 1984-1992.

3) Jason Garrett, Cowboys - QB for the Cowboys and Giants between 1993-2000.

4) Gary Kubiak, Texans - QB for the Broncos between 1983-1991.

5) Jack Del Rio, Jaguars - LB for the Saints, Chiefs, Cowboys, and Vikings between 1985-1995.

6) Leslie Frazier, Vikings - DB for the Bears between 1981-1985.

7) Sean Payton, Saints - QB for the Bears in 1987 (replacement games during the strike).

8) Jim Harbaugh, 49ers - QB for the Bears, Colts, Ravens, and Chargers between 1987-2000.

9) Mike Munchak, Titans - OG for the Oilers (now Titans) between 1982-1993 ... elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2001.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percentage_of_NFL_coaches_played_professional_football#ixzz1dd505VRi

Adam

[Selene]

Carol:

That was an interesting assertion.

Paterno played college ball.

MORE: Where coaches played in college

The next time your star defensive back misses an assignment and gets burned by a wide receiver, think twice before booing. The same goes if your quarterback throws an interception.

That defensive back or quarterback could be your favorite team's next great head coach.

Bob Stoops played defensive back at Iowa.

The same way catchers tend to make good baseball managers, certain positions on the football field gravitate toward coaching football.

Rivals.com examined the bios of every FBS coach to see if football coaches followed any similar pattern, and as expected, quarterbacks were the most represented position in the coaching ranks. More than a quarter (33) of the 120 FBS coaches played quarterback - to some degree, at least - in college.

The next most popular position among coaches is defensive back. Twenty-six were full-time defensive backs, and another five played some in the secondary along with a different position.

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1118500

[caroljane]

Carol:

That was an interesting assertion.

Paterno played college ball.

MORE: Where coaches played in college

The next time your star defensive back misses an assignment and gets burned by a wide receiver, think twice before booing. The same goes if your quarterback throws an interception.

That defensive back or quarterback could be your favorite team's next great head coach.

Bob Stoops played defensive back at Iowa.

The same way catchers tend to make good baseball managers, certain positions on the football field gravitate toward coaching football.

Rivals.com examined the bios of every FBS coach to see if football coaches followed any similar pattern, and as expected, quarterbacks were the most represented position in the coaching ranks. More than a quarter (33) of the 120 FBS coaches played quarterback - to some degree, at least - in college.

The next most popular position among coaches is defensive back. Twenty-six were full-time defensive backs, and another five played some in the secondary along with a different position.

http://collegefootba...asp?CID=1118500

Of course you are right, and I knew I was probably wrong in my blatant assertion. Of course all coaches have played. However else would they come to love and understand the sport? Michael is right of course, though a sports fan I dislike football, even the CFL, and I despise and deplore the college football industry.I won't belabour my previous comments on the former players and well=paid coaches who enjoyed their burgeoning careers for the past decade because they allowed children to be raped. I will just say to that senile megalomaniac Paterno, to that craven moral idiot McQueary, maybe you are not familiar with a quaint sports trope which therefore of course you had no responsibility to heed. You did not play up, play up and play the game.

The game is life, in case you missed metaphor because you had a practice.

[Selene]

Well said smart lady!

Adam

Post Script:

But I am surprised that you believed that that ND Multiorgasmic Tonic treatment would work!

[anthony]

You did not play up, play up and play the game.

Oh goody - we've moved on to cricket. About time.

Excellent news, South Africa hammered the Aussies in the first Test in Cape Town.

An 8 wicket victory. The lowest runs in their second innings, ever.

Now it's into the next Test, and...is anyone listening?

Does anybody care?

[Selene]

I can hear the sound of crickets...

Lol...it is a fascinating game, but Americans are clueless about it.

Heck, it took me a while to get into curling which is about a strange sport ...shuffleboard on ice with brooms...who woulda thunk!

Adam

[caroljane]

O lovely therapeutic kitties.

On the advice of my attorneys I can say little about my traumatic experiences at the hands (not to mention other extremities) of an unnamed person that we all know who he is. I can however say, women of Miami indeed all Florida, if you get into conversation with a plausible wellspoken man who implicates that he is a medical professional, and he starts to talk about triple axels and death spirals, call the authorities immediately . Just do it. There may be chitchat about recitative or intermezzo but haha, this is just deconstructionist foreplay for this cunning predator. Do not tell him your PIN number.

[caroljane]

You did not play up, play up and play the game.

Oh goody - we've moved on to cricket. About time.

Excellent news, South Africa hammered the Aussies in the first Test in Cape Town.

An 8 wicket victory. The lowest runs in their second innings, ever.

Now it's into the next Test, and...is anyone listening?

Does anybody care?

No Tony, no we don't. The south Asians will crunch you under like always.

[Brant Gaede]

Yes , public education makes ultimate sense.

You are profiting from it.

Exactly. So are the students.

"The Lord is my shepherd . . . ."

--Brant

[caroljane]

I think I have some kind of handle on McQueary, I hope so that I can stop thinking about this. Maybe it is about growing up, have you seen his photo? He looks like a big popeyed shockheaded kid. When he saw his old coach comitting a crime he called his daddy. He's in protective custody now they say. He always has been.

[Selene]

When he saw his old coach comitting a crime he called his daddy. He's in protective custody now they say. He always has been.

Perceptive comment.

I cannot, at any level, understand how any person could not have 1) killed the rapist in his tracks or 2) at a minimum dragged the rapist off the child and then immediately called 911.

That's it. There are no other choices.

Adam

[caroljane]

When he saw his old coach comitting a crime he called his daddy. He's in protective custody now they say. He always has been.

Perceptive comment.

I cannot, at any level, understand how any person could not have 1) killed the rapist in his tracks or 2) at a minimum dragged the rapist off the child and then immediately called 911.

That's it. There are no other choices.

Adam

No , not for an adult or a morally mature person who could be any age. But this guy grew up (that is, failed to grow up) in the benign slave culture of Football Penn Paterno. He received no education of any kind.He ate well and got lots of exercise and did what he was told, which was usually what he wanted to hear. Happy Valley

[Brant Gaede]

A woman once caught a man--old secondhand news story--raping her child-daughter and hit him with a shovel breaking his back.

Not being his son getting it, it sounds like strong intimations of obedience to authority, it's possible the poor sap was so shocked by what he saw with no previous experience to draw on that that was why he didn't do the needed immediate thing. That's what Paterno should have told him just before going to the police.

My first real combat experience was so shocking to me all I could do was react as I had been trained--for the battlefields of Europe, not Vietnam. Six days later in Cambodia I did better. So, no, I really don't blame this guy all that much. I've never come upon boy-rape nor have I ever given it a thought that I might one day and prepared myself mentally for the right response. At my age I've no obedience to authority left in me. When I left the army in 1967, I had a lot. I'm so immune to it no one ever seems to try it on me any more. Or if they do I probably don't even notice. Now take college football--even pro if you want, but I've no time for digression--it has to be obedience to authority and if you grow up and mature in that culture it's got to stick to you like glue.

Middle-aged maturity--until people see you as a doddering old fool--not there yet, thank you God!--can carry a lot of authority in itself. So here I am 67 yo and walk into that situation. I say "Stop!" and it stops! But if I'm 28 and the sports underling even if I have no obedience to authority in me I'll probably just have to hit the SOB since I intuitively know "Stop!" won't work fast enough coming from me, the underling.

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

Happy Valley

That's kinda weird. "Happy Valley" is just east of Tucson on the other side of the Rincon mountains.

--Brant