Ed Hudgins

Atlas Society Special Edition DVD of Atlas Shrugged Part 1

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"A white rectangle hung over the city, imparting the date to the men in the streets below. In the rusty light of this evening's sunset, the rectangle said: September 2." Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Atlas Society Special Edition DVD of Atlas Shrugged Part 1

Now available for pre-order: Atlas Shrugged Part I - The Atlas Society Edition DVD featuring exclusive Atlas Society content.

th_Atlas_BOX_Comp_AtlasSociety-AA.jpg

The Atlas Society Special Edition DVD will include a number of unique features:

*Three beautifully produced video commentaries on scenes from the film by Atlas Society founder and CEO David Kelley.

*Exclusive footage from the Atlas Society's April 14th premiere of the film in New York City; including remarks by David Kelley, who consulted on the film's script, and a panel discussion by the film's cast and crew.

*Behind-the-scenes interview with producer John Aglialoro, on the set while filming.

Sales of Atlas Shrugged have skyrocketed in recent years because the vision and plot of Ayn Rand's novel have so many parallels with the events we see in our world today. And more and more, people understand the world today in terms of the novel's themes: producers versus expropriators; capitalism versus statism; individualism vs. altruism. The film brings these ideas to life through the story of Dagny Taggart and Hank Rearden, struggling to do the work they most love in life against the interference of government bureaucrats and their crony capitalist accomplices.

You'll want to savor this film again and again—and the Atlas Society Special Edition of Atlas Shrugged Part 1 is one you'll want in your DVD collection. It will make a great gift for your friends, and for those you want to introduce to Atlas Shrugged and its ideas. Pre-order now and your DVD will be shipped so you receive it on release day - November 8th. And get ready to experience the excitement of the film all over again!

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Taylor Schilling seems to be doing quite well. She will star in The Lucky One with Zac Efron, about a Marine searching for the unknown woman he believes was his good luck charm during the Iraq war. And Ben Affleck has just added her to the cast of Argo, based on a true story about a CIA team that attempted to extract diplomats from Tehran in 1979 by posing as a film crew.

Both movies are scheduled for release in 2012. Does anyone know if she has committed to Atlas Shrugged Part Two?

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Taylor Schilling seems to be doing quite well. She will star in The Lucky One with Zac Efron, about a Marine searching for the unknown woman he believes was his good luck charm during the Iraq war. And Ben Affleck has just added her to the cast of Argo, based on a true story about a CIA team that attempted to extract diplomats from Tehran in 1979 by posing as a film crew.

Both movies are scheduled for release in 2012. Does anyone know if she has committed to Atlas Shrugged Part Two?

She damn well better be, she was excellent.

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Taylor Schilling seems to be doing quite well. She will star in The Lucky One with Zac Efron, about a Marine searching for the unknown woman he believes was his good luck charm during the Iraq war. And Ben Affleck has just added her to the cast of Argo, based on a true story about a CIA team that attempted to extract diplomats from Tehran in 1979 by posing as a film crew.

Both movies are scheduled for release in 2012. Does anyone know if she has committed to Atlas Shrugged Part Two?

She damn well better be, she was excellent.

OMG. We agree about something. How unsettling.

She was the primary reason I kept going back to see Part One over and over (and over). And she will be the reason I buy the DVD.

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Taylor Schilling seems to be doing quite well. She will star in The Lucky One with Zac Efron, about a Marine searching for the unknown woman he believes was his good luck charm during the Iraq war. And Ben Affleck has just added her to the cast of Argo, based on a true story about a CIA team that attempted to extract diplomats from Tehran in 1979 by posing as a film crew.

Both movies are scheduled for release in 2012. Does anyone know if she has committed to Atlas Shrugged Part Two?

She damn well better be, she was excellent.

OMG. We agree about something. How unsettling.

She was the primary reason I kept going back to see Part One over and over (and over). And she will be the reason I buy the DVD.

We agree on quite a lot of "things," except for the ones that you are wrong about of course.

If you remember, we were both salivating over her clearly visible "acting skills" when we first saw her pictures, err I mean her clear endowments, err I mean her acting performance in the videos is what I mean...right?

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Taylor Schilling seems to be doing quite well. She will star in The Lucky One with Zac Efron, about a Marine searching for the unknown woman he believes was his good luck charm during the Iraq war. And Ben Affleck has just added her to the cast of Argo, based on a true story about a CIA team that attempted to extract diplomats from Tehran in 1979 by posing as a film crew.

Both movies are scheduled for release in 2012. Does anyone know if she has committed to Atlas Shrugged Part Two?

She damn well better be, she was excellent.

OMG. We agree about something. How unsettling.

She was the primary reason I kept going back to see Part One over and over (and over). And she will be the reason I buy the DVD.

We agree on quite a lot of "things," except for the ones that you are wrong about of course.

If you remember, we were both salivating over her clearly visible "acting skills" when we first saw her pictures, err I mean her clear endowments, err I mean her acting performance in the videos is what I mean...right?

If you remember, Dennis spent most of his time when the trailer and the first scenes came out, not salivating over anything, but strutting around comically in his trademark high moral dudgeon mouthing inanities I'm sure he half-understood about what he regarded as the unconscionably inept computer animation in the train scenes.

JR

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Taylor Schilling seems to be doing quite well. She will star in The Lucky One with Zac Efron, about a Marine searching for the unknown woman he believes was his good luck charm during the Iraq war. And Ben Affleck has just added her to the cast of Argo, based on a true story about a CIA team that attempted to extract diplomats from Tehran in 1979 by posing as a film crew.

Both movies are scheduled for release in 2012. Does anyone know if she has committed to Atlas Shrugged Part Two?

She damn well better be, she was excellent.

OMG. We agree about something. How unsettling.

She was the primary reason I kept going back to see Part One over and over (and over). And she will be the reason I buy the DVD.

We agree on quite a lot of "things," except for the ones that you are wrong about of course.

Don’t be silly. I’m never wrong. You of all people should know that by now.

That’s not technically correct. I was wrong once. That was the one time that I thought I was wrong but it turned out that I was right.

If you remember, we were both salivating over her clearly visible "acting skills" when we first saw her pictures, err I mean her clear endowments, err I mean her acting performance in the videos is what I mean...right?

Correction. You were salivating. I was having an altogether different physiological response.

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In the interest of completeness, and in light of some unexpected groupings of features, I should point out that three organization-themed "special edition" DVDs, along with the merely unaffiliated "special edition" (no DVD is unspecial, it seems), were announced today.

Each is $19.95 and is available for pre-ordering, to be released on November 8. All are described in full at their main merchandise page. Here are the special features on all four, for comparison (and noted as "subject to change"):

Atlas Productions Special Edition

  • "I am John Galt." fan video compilation (35:06)
  • "The John Galt Theme" slideshow (3:17)
  • Special commentary with Producers John Aglialoro & Harmon Kaslow, and Screenwriter Brian O'Toole

Atlas Society Special Edition

  • Three beautifully produced video commentaries by David Kelley
  • Exclusive footage from the April 14th premiere
  • Behind-the-scenes interview with producer John Aglialoro

FreedomWorks Special Edition

  • "Welcome" from FreedomWorks President Matt Kibbe
  • "I am John Galt" from the FreedomWorks Staff
  • "Why FreedomWorks?"

Reason Special Edition

  • Behind the Scenes of Atlas Shrugged Part 1
  • "Who is John Galt?"
  • Reason Foundation Co-Founder Bob Poole on Ayn Rand
  • Reason Foundation Co-Founder Tibor Machan on Ayn Rand
  • Reason Foundation Co-Founder Manny Klausner on Ayn Rand
  • Nathaniel Branden on "My Years With Ayn Rand"
  • Barbara Branden on the Passion of Ayn Rand [not italicized or quote-marked as a book title ~ SR]

Edited by Greybird

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Beyond the truly sad lack of deleted scenes — I wanted to see Dagny's office filled with volunteers to operate the first run of the John Galt Line, dammit! — this is a bit disappointing.

It's an odd division of special features in more than one sense: I'd have expected a behind-the-scenes piece to be on the "main" edition, the one they would be pitching for wider sales distribution. I'd also have expected the material from the Brandens to be on the Atlas Society edition, with their past support and its closer focus (far more so than Reason) on Rand.

It becomes more of a matter of eliminating editions, at $19.95 each, of lesser appeal. (Unless you choose to spring for the set of four, in a "beautiful collector's case (not pictured)," for $69.95 ... here's the odd instance of Objectivist sales excess {g})

I'd not choose to go with the FreedomWorks or Atlas Society editions, unless I was a member of either (I am not) and saw something noted about a portion of sales or profits going back to these organizations (I saw nothing). The FW features are too narrowly tailored. I've seen the Aglialoro interview on YouTube. Also, at least two of the Kelley pieces — while well-produced, they weren't at all new to me in content.

That leaves either the Reason or producers' editions. I'd rather not do without either the spoken commentary or the background documentary, but they're split, and I prefer the former. I'd truly enjoy and revisit the many perspectives on Rand herself, but expect to be yet more intrigued by the cross-section of humanity in the fan-video compilation.

At this point, after a third of a century of knowing this novel, I want what will intrigue me. And I simply won't shell out for two (or more!) DVD copies of what is still only the first third of a projected film trilogy.

So it's the producers' edition for me, at least in this configuration.

Edited by Greybird

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> the truly sad lack of deleted scenes [GB]

Here's an example of what professionals do when they want to market a DVD of a movie - and sell a lot of copies ==>

[Alien with Sigourney Weaver --- price on Amazon as of today: $17.49 ]

" Theatrical version (117 min.)

Extended cut (seamlessly branched) (137 min.)

Preproduction: Star Beast (developing the story), First Draft of Screenplay by Dan O'Bannon, The Visualists (direction and design), Ridleygrams (original thumbnails & notes), storyboard archive, Art of Alien (Cobb, Foss, Giger, Moebius), Truckers in Space (casting), Sigourney Weaver's screen test with optional commentary by Ridley Scott, cast portrait gallery

Production: Fear of the Unknown (Shepperton Studios, 1978), production gallery, The Darkest Reaches (Nostromo and alien planet), The Sets of Alien, The Eighth Passenger (creature design), The Chestburster (creature design)

Post-Production: Future Tense (music and editing), 8 deleted scenes, visual effects gallery (photo archive), A Nightmare Fulfilled (reaction to the film), poster explorations, special shoot, premiere "

Edited by Philip Coates

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A comment appears to suggest that DVDs branching to "extended" or "director's" cuts, and including extensive development materials, are desirable or even necessary to qualify their producers as "professionals."

That the "Atlas Shrugged: Part One" discs don't have these features is no indication that these people are not professionals, as such. (Aglialoro fell short on effective strategy in marketing the film's expansion, but that reflects bad advice, not a lack of professional attitude.)

Development materials comparable to a wholly CGI-laden creation, such as any recent SF film, aren't appropriate. "AS:P1" is an ideas- and dialogue-laden film, and effects work is peripheral to the storytelling. It had to serve the plot, and to my taste, it succeeded fully. (Even beautifully, with a railroad bridge that adds beauty to Rand's described strength.) Massive detail as to peripheral development is what few viewers demand with such a film.

As for branching to a "director's cut," rather than simply including deleted scenes, this is rarely done on any film for at least two effective reasons, and for a third on this particular one:

~ It's notably expensive. The whole film, or large sections of it, have to be encoded twice on the disc. That's two efforts at digital compression. Branches have to be created in menus. The computer and design time is not negligible.

~ Rarely does the integration of deleted scenes end up fundamentally changing the storytelling, and this would be especially true with any film of the almost cinematically dense Atlas Shrugged. Amplifications, emphases of tone, and character asides would be added. They stand far more on their own, however, in a film where dialogue and acting do the heavy lifting of the storytelling. In an effects- and atmosphere-driven film, they end up chaotic when seen out of context.

For an example, I'll cite Barbra Streisand's "Yentl," released in 2009 on DVD, a full quarter-century after its creation. (Seen fifty times. Trust me. I know this film.)

She included a director's version involving changes over about 20 minutes in the third quarter of the film. Several scenes she restored to this significantly altered who was responsible for various actions and realizations, or for dealing with same. They amplified the storyline, and gave more screen time to worthwhile characters — but they also reworked the flow of the plot. So much so that the director's preferred version also dropped about four minutes of expository scenes, so that about nine minutes of unused-in-the-theater scenes could be added without their making no sense.

The dropped four minutes had some well-turned acting, superbly chosen lines, and beautiful cinematography. Yet they would have prevented the plot points of the deleted scenes from unfolding. Streisand, as director, shot the four minutes at the time in 1982 because she realized that the nine minutes would have to be deleted, as they interfered with making the film a manageable length, and she had cost and production imperatives. The plot-stream, in this case, did have to branch to another path. (Her also being co-screenwriter helped with mapping the verbal channel.)

I seriously doubt that anything dropped from the "Atlas" film involved such a branch. They added flavor, dramatic tension, dialogue, almost certainly. Yet nothing of root importance was omitted from the plot structure. Deleted scenes, here, are missing leaves, not missing limbs. They also would have been discrete and separated as to their position in the film.

~ Finally, a "director's cut" would be a misnomer because this is, to a significant degree, an unfinished project. Two-thirds of the original plot remains to be dramatized. It is not certain that Paul Johansson will be the director to do so. (If it's ever done at all ... let's be honest.) Aglialoro may find a new director with a new emphasis, out of cost or availability.

Devoting a "branch" to a variant of a story that's only one-third on screen would be a waste of money at this point, if any part of it is tied to a directorial vision — if one even exists yet — or overarching tone.

Turning three movies averaging 1:45 each into, say, one more compact 5:00 epic? (Possibly with a branch version getting around Galt's Speech, of 4:20? {rueful smile}) That might make sense. But it's at least three years away from a Blu-Ray / DVD combo pack of the whole project.

Edited by Greybird

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Here's another example of what professionals (those with experience in marketing, in producing and selling movies, making money in Hollywood and/or entertainment)have included in "special edition" DVD's:

[blade Runner]

"Disc 1:

Ridley Scott's definitive cut of the film, called 'The Final Cut,' it features enhanced special effects, newly remastered 5.1 Dolby Digital Sound and newly scanned visuals from the original 35mm negative.

An introduction to the film by director Ridley Scott.

A feature length audio commentary with director Ridley Scott.

A feature length audio commentary with executive producer/screenwriter Hampton Fancher, screenwriter David Webb Peoples, producer Michael Deeley and production executive Kathy Haber.

A feature length audio commentary with production designer Lawrence G. Paull, art director David L. Snyder, visual futurist Syd Mead and special photographic effects supervisors Douglas Trumbull, Richard Yuricich and David Dryer.

Disc 2:

Dangerous Days: Making Blade Runner; a 214 minute making of documentary made exclusively for this DVD.

Disc 3:

The 1982 US Theatrical Cut of the film.

The 1982 International Cut of the film.

The 1992 Director's Cut of the film.

All three cuts contain an introduction by Ridley Scott; all three cuts have digitally remastered picture and sound.

Disc 4:

'The Electric Dreamer: Remembering Philip K. Dick;' a 14 minute featurette looking at the life of Philip K. Dick.

'Sacrificial Sheep: The Novel vs. the Film;' a 15 minute featurette looking at the differences between the film Blade Runner and the novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

14 short audio-only interviews between Paul M. Sammon and Philip K. Dick, recorded between 1980 and 1982 (25 minutes in total).

'Signs of the Times: Graphic Design;' a 14 minute featurette presented by production illustrator Tom Southwell, who takes us through some of the design work he did for the film.

'Fashion Forward: Wardrobe and Styling;' a 21 minute featurette looking at the costumes made for the film.

'Screen Tests: Rachael and Pris;' a 9 minute featurette, introduced by casting director Mike Fenton, looking at the auditions of Nina Axelrod for Rachael and Stacey Nelkin for Pris. Includes 2007 interviews with both Axelrod and Nelkin.

'The Light That Burns: Remembering Jordan Cronenweth;' a 20 minute featurette looking at the career of cinematographer Jordan Cronenweth.

'Blade Runner: Deleted and Alternate Scenes;' 24 deleted and alternate scenes (see below for more details).

'On the Set;' a 14 minute featurette from 1982 looking at the making of the film, narrated by Morgan Paull. Includes interviews with Ridley Scott, Harrison Ford, Rutger Hauer and Sean Young.

'Convention Reel;' a 13 minute featurette from 1982 which was sent out to science fiction conventions in the weeks leading up to the theatrical release of the film, featuring behind-the-scene footage and details about the milieu of the film. Includes interviews with Ridley Scott, Syd Mead and Douglas Trumbull.

A 9 minute visual-only clip of random behind-the-scenes footage.

1981 Theatrical Teaser.

1982 Theatrical Trailer.

1982 TV Spot.

1992 Directors Cut Trailer.

2007 Dangerous Days Trailer.

2007 Final Cut Trailer.

'Promoting Dystopia: Rendering the Poster Art;' a 10 minute featurette looking at the posters used to advertise and promote the film both for the original release in 1982 and the release of the Final Cut in 2007.

'Deck-A-Rep: The True Nature of Rick Deckard;' a 10 minute featurette looking at the question of whether or not Deckard is a replicant.

'Nexus Generation: Fans & Filmmakers;' a 22 minute featurette looking at the continuing popularity and influence of the film.

Disc 5:

The 1982 Workprint cut of the film, with an introduction by Ridley Scott.

A feature length audio commentary with Paul M. Sammon, author of Future Noir: The Making of Blade Runner.

'All Our Variant Futures;' a 28 minute featurette looking at the creation of the Final Cut.

The box, which is a replica of Rick Deckard's briefcase, also contains a 16-page booklet, a lenticular motion film clip, a letter from Ridley Scott, an art folio containing storyboards, production illustrations and concept drawings, a mini spinner, and a paper origami unicorn.

The R2 UK 5-disc Ultimate Collector's Edition DVD released by Warner Bros. Home Entertainment (UK) in 2007 contains identical special features, but it comes in a DVD size steel case, and the spinner and origami piece are absent. Additionally, the motion clip, the letter and the art folio are much smaller in the UK box set.

The US-only 4-disc Collector's Edition contains the first four discs of the 5-disc set. The 2-disc Special Edition (both US and UK) contains the first two disks of the 5-disc set.

What are the deleted/alternate scenes on the DVD?

Although they are viewable as a series of 24 separate deleted/alternate scenes, the Blade Runner DVD also presents the deleted scenes as a single 47 minute block of scenes, which have been edited together to form a 'mini' version of the film itself, complete with never-before-heard voiceover narration by Harrison Ford. The scenes which comprise this short version of the film are:

Tears in the Rain (Alternate Opening Titles): An alternate title sequence featuring huge water drops splashing onto the ground in slow motion, in time with the Vangelis music.

I'm Deckard: An alternate introduction to Deckard, featuring different angles of the blimp, the noodlebar and the scene where Gaff arrives. There is also a new voiceover here, with Deckard talking about his wife leaving him for a rich prospector on one of the colonies.

A Real Dandy: An alternate version of the scene where Gaff and Deckard arrive at the police station, revealing more of Union Station. In the new voiceover, Deckard explains that Gaff is new to the job and hungry for promotion.

Bryant's Point of View: A truncated version of the scene where Deckard and Bryant watch the incept tapes. The voiceover here talks about how Bryant knows something about everyone.

Visiting Holden: Deckard visits Holden in hospital. Holden tells Deckard how life like the new Nexus 6 model is, and they speculate as to whether the Voight-Kampff will work on them.

Rep Detect File: As Deckard and Gaff approach the Tyrell building, Deckard flips through a file on the four replicants and the voiceover explains the background of each one.

Zero-Zero-Zero: A alternate version of Rachael's Voight-Kampff test. The voiceover talks about how difficult it was to determine that she was a replicant, and expresses disgust at what Tyrell is doing.

1187 Hunterwasser: An alternate version of Deckard and Gaff searching Leon's hotel room. More of the geography of the room is seen, and additionally, at the end of the scene, Leon is revealed to have been hiding somewhere in the bathroom, the whole time the two policemen where present.

Chew's Specialty: An alternate introduction to Roy, who is shown in full profile standing in the phone booth. A voiceover explains who Chew is.

Heading Home: An alternate version of the scene where Deckard arrives at his apartment block, showing him getting out of his car and running to escape the rain. The voiceover talks about how poorly the case is going.

An Oddball Genius: An alternate version of the meeting between Pris and Sebastian, showing a high angle shot from overhead as Pris approaches the Bradbury. The voiceover talks about how difficult being a Blade Runner is, and why the replicants wanted to see Sebastian.

Memories: A different version of the scene where Deckard uses the Esper. In this version, the graphics seen on the Esper screen look completely different to all other versions of the film. Additionally, when Deckard asks for a hardcopy, the print out matches the image on-screen. The voiceover here talks about how demoralizing the job is, and there is some more information on Deckard's ex-wife, who we see in a photograph.

Food for Thought: A scene of Deckard sitting at the noodlebar eating. The man beside him gets fish, and Deckard suddenly realizes that maybe the scale he found belongs to a fish. The voiceover here basically just summarizes what is shown.

The Street of Bad Dreams: More footage of Deckard approaching Taffy Lewis' club, which reveals a lot more of the street. Also, an alternate take of the conversation between Deckard and Taffy. The voiceover discusses how unreliable Taffy is.

Backstage Pass: A barman tells Deckard that Taffy won't know anything about the scale, but the performers might, and he tells him to go backstage to find out. The voiceover here talks about how he suspects Zhora is a replicant, but isn't 100% sure.

Looks Like Blood: An alternate version of the scene after Deckard has killed Zhora. The voiceover here talks about the moral ambiguities of the work.

Washing Up: An alternate version of the scene where Deckard washes up and goes to sleep, with more footage of Rachael simply watching him.

I Want You: A longer version of the sex scene, which shows both Deckard and Rachael undressing one another.

Metaphysics: Deckard again visits Holden, who thinks Deckard had slept with Zhora and mocks him for it. Holden then tells Deckard that the replicants are looking for God. Bryant and Gaff are shown to be spying on the scene, discussing whether or not Deckard knows where Rachael is.

Tyrell Security Protocol: Different versions of Roy and Sebastian approaching the Tyrell suite, and of Roy leaving. Both scenes involve a security pass that has to be input into a slot on the elevator within a certain time or the elevator will be locked down. Additionally, as Roy leaves, he is clearly upset, almost frantic.

Closing In: A different version of the scene where Deckard calls Sebastian's. In this version, the conversation with the Spinner cop is longer, and the cop is actually seen on a small TV in Deckard's car. The real difference, however, is the voiceover. At this stage, Deckard doesn't know that Tyrell is dead. However, Rachael has guessed that the replicants want more life, which means they need to see Tyrell. Deckard explains that only 6 people have access to Tyrell, so he is calling each of them. Sebastian is the last one he calls.

Every Second Of It: An alternate version of Roy's final monologue. Different angles are used throughout, and the shot of the pigeon flying away is at nighttime. Additionally, when he arrives on the roof, Gaff points out to Deckard that he can't be sure if he is in fact human. The voiceover here is the same as that used in the Workprint.

Old Richter Route (Alternate Ending): An alternate version of the theatrical cut's happy ending. The voiceover muses about how much in love Deckard and Rachael are.

Made for Each Other (Alternate Ending): Another alternate version of the theatrical cut's happy ending, with Deckard and Rachael discussing Deckard's ex-wife and their own relationship. Rachael tells Deckard that it is the happiest day of her life. Interestingly, Rachael then says, "You and I were made for one another," to which Deckard responds strangely, looking at her rather bemusedly (this line has been suggested to be another hint that Deckard is a replicant). "

[iMDB]

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Obviously you wouldn't (and couldn't) include every one of the above items in a -good- special edition "Atlas Shrugged" DVD.

But you would include more of the "Alien" or "Blade Runner" type features than just the "talking heads" interviews with intellectuals that only a few have heard or or are particularly interested in.

That would sell a lot more copies and be more intriguing that the four or five Atlas special editions. (No objection to the talking heads being slipped in. They are simply not attractive enough to sell tens or hundreds of thousands of copies.)

Edited by Philip Coates

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Dumps from the Internet Movie Database are no substitute for discussion. You haven't responded to a single one of my points.

This film is not an effects-driven (or CGI-towed) epic, and you're still suggesting it can be sold on the same basis.

I am really starting to see that posts here soon become, as far as the good any thinking through an issue can do, the archetypical casting of pearls before swine, as Riggenbach recently said to me.

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Dumps from the Internet Movie Database are no substitute for discussion. You haven't responded to a single one of my points.

This film is not an effects-driven (or CGI-towed) epic, and you're still suggesting it can be sold on the same basis.

I am really starting to see that posts here soon become, as far as the good any thinking through an issue can do, the archetypical casting of pearls before swine, as Riggenbach recently said to me.

I don't think you're giving Phil adequate credit here, Steve. He spent minutes skimming secondary sources to build up the immense base of knowledge and understanding of the film industry that he drew on for his comments.

JR

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The point is not a difficult one: Lots of people buy a DVD of a film because of the extras.

To respond directly to GB, the extra doesn't have to be a "director's cut": It can be other items of the types listed. In fact, GB himself even listed one.

Doh!!!

I assumed both Jeff and Greybird were intelligent enough* to look through the laundry list and (i) realize that not every special feature fits every movie, (ii) figure out which of those long lists of items would have been intriguing to potential buyers and could easily have been done for the Atlas movie, (iii) grasp why "talking heads" of Oist, or Reason, or libertarian think tankers or intellectuals are not immensely appealing to those outside of the hard core**.

*maybe I was wrong, though :lol:

** Am I going to have to spell out the difference between marketing to the hard core and makreting to the much larger group of millions of fans of Rand's novels who may or may not have seen the movie, were waiting for a DVD, and would be avid enough fans to be attracted by the extras?

Edited by Philip Coates

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Subject: Jeff the Elitist

> the immense base of knowledge and understanding of the film industry that he drew on

Jeff, we've had this argument over and over in many fields. With your usual elitist "you gotta be an expert to open your mouth and offer an opinion" mistake, you simply don't seem to grasp that choosing attractive special features to add is a no-brainer.

Even a reasonably thirteen year old could get it. You don't have to have spent years in the film industry or in the academic study of it.

Just as you don't have to have spent decades studying literature or in film school to often tell a lemon from a peach.

There are areas where you -do- have to be an expert to know enough to pontificate or make a case. The problem is that the examples you use -- in a number of fields -- seldom are among those.

And they seldom make -you- unwilling to offer very strong opinions in those areas. Hmmmm, could that be because you are "the expert"....?

:rolleyes:

Edited by Philip Coates

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The point is not a difficult one: Lots of people buy a DVD of a film because of the extras.

To respond directly to GB, the extra doesn't have to be a "director's cut": It can be other items of the types listed. In fact, GB himself even listed one.

Doh!!!

I assumed both Jeff and Greybird were smart enough* to look through the laundry list and (i) realize that not every special feature fits every movie, (ii) figure out which of those long lists of items would have been intriguing to potential buyers and could easily have been done for the Atlas movie, (iii) grasp why talking heads of Oist Reason or libertarian think tankers or intellectuals are not immensely appealing to those outside the know.

*maybe I was mistaken, though :rolleyes:

You were mistaken, though not about our intelligence, rather about the extent of our knowledge of why other people buy things. You see, we can't read minds, Steve and I, smart though we undeniably are, so we don't really know for sure why other people buy things (beyond the obvious stuff that you can learn from praxeology - but I needn't mention what you can learn from praxeology, you've read Human Action and Man, Economy, & State I'm sure, so you know all that). We simply lack your astonishing depth of knowledge of sales and marketing. Can you name some of the secondary sources you skimmed to attain it, so some of the rest of us can add to our learning?

Or was your method maybe a purely deductive one, like the praxeologists'? You know, something along these lines:

DVD "A" was purchased by many people

DVD "A" has certain kinds of special features on it.

Therefore the people who bought DVD "A" bought it for those special features.

JR

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Jeff, as I said a thirteen year old -- or a Rand fan of almost any age could figure out the value of those extras to fans.

(Especially when things like deleted scenes, photos, interviews with the stars are inexpensive and there is space on the disk.)

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Subject: Jeff the Elitist

> the immense base of knowledge and understanding of the film industry that he drew on

Jeff, we've had this argument over and over in many fields. With your usual elitist "you gotta be an expert to open your mouth and offer an opinion" mistake, you simply don't seem to grasp that choosing attractive special features to add is a no-brainer.

Even a reasonably thirteen year old could get it. You don't have to have spent years in the film industry or in the academic study of it.

Just as you don't have to have spent decades studying literature or in film school to often tell a lemon from a peach.

There are areas where you -do- have to be an expert to know enough to pontificate or make a case. The problem is that the examples you use -- in a number of fields -- seldom are among those.

And they seldom make -you- unwilling to offer very strong opinions in those areas. Hmmmm, could that be because you are "the expert"....?

:rolleyes:

I am expert in a few fields, yes. I didn't come by my expertise by skimming secondary sources, however, so it pales in comparison to your own expertise, of course.

And yes, I had mercifully forgotten your doctrine that it is necessary to know what one is talking about on certain subjects (mostly the ones you personally know something about), but on other subjects (mostly the ones about which you don't even realize the extent of your own ignorance), no expertise is necessary (or even, probably, possible - after all, anybody's opinion is as good as anybody else's.)

JR

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Jeff, as I said a thirteen year old -- or a Rand fan of almost any age could figure out the value of those extras to fans.

(Especially when things like deleted scenes, photos, interviews with the stars are inexpensive and there is space on the disk.)

Yes, and all those 13-year-olds doubtless know with certainty (as you obviously do) that there are deleted scenes and interviews with the stars in existence that could be included. Which secondary source did you find that information in?

But all this is mere quibbling. What is unequivocally clear is that the people who put together these first DVD releases were all, to a man, incompetent amateurs. If only they had sought Phil's advice before proceeding! Or, better yet, given the project to Phil to take care of personally!

Is there anything in the world of Objectivism that wouldn't be better if Phil did it?

All of you lurking out there, reading these words: I ask you! Is it not patently obvious?

I rest my case.

JR

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The point is not a difficult one: Lots of people buy a DVD of a film because of the extras.

To respond directly to GB, the extra doesn't have to be a "director's cut": It can be other items of the types listed. In fact, GB himself even listed one.

Doh!!!

I assumed both Jeff and Greybird were smart enough* to look through the laundry list and (i) realize that not every special feature fits every movie, (ii) figure out which of those long lists of items would have been intriguing to potential buyers and could easily have been done for the Atlas movie, (iii) grasp why talking heads of Oist Reason or libertarian think tankers or intellectuals are not immensely appealing to those outside the know.

*maybe I was mistaken, though :rolleyes:

You were mistaken, though not about our intelligence, rather about the extent of our knowledge of why other people buy things. You see, we can't read minds, Steve and I, smart though we undeniably are, so we don't really know for sure why other people buy things (beyond the obvious stuff that you can learn from praxeology - but I needn't mention what you can learn from praxeology, you've read Human Action and Man, Economy, & State I'm sure, so you know all that). We simply lack your astonishing depth of knowledge of sales and marketing. Can you name some of the secondary sources you skimmed to attain it, so some of the rest of us can add to our learning?

Or was your method maybe a purely deductive one, like the praxeologists'? You know, something along these lines:

DVD "A" was purchased by many people

DVD "A" has certain kinds of special features on it.

Therefore the people who bought DVD "A" bought it for those special features.

JR

Naked young people cavorting in South Sea Island sexual bliss?

--Brant

that'll do it for me

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1. > ['Sources'] that there are deleted scenes... [Jeffaroni]

Have you ever heard of a Hollywood movie which did not have -any- deleted scenes? Do you actually not understand that there are multiple "takes" of many scenes when you make a movie? Or are you under the impression that they got everything right on the first take? That there was no post-production process?

2. > ...and interviews with the stars in existence that could be included

Are you under the impression that interviews could not have been filmed before releasing the DVD? That the stars would have been unwilling to do such interviews if asked?

3. > Is there anything in the world of Objectivism that wouldn't be better if Phil did it?

Are you under the impression that those who run the world of Objectivism get everything right and are successful in all their projects? And that therefore it's illegitimate to criticize?

Edited by Philip Coates

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