Gary Johnson

[Selene]

Maybe not Dennis:

Remember the wacko woman in Connecticutt that had the Chimpanzee sleeping with her, she had dinner with the Chimp and it tore her friends face off?

I don't remember that, but so what?

Maybe this isn't as obvious to everyone else as it is to me: Marriage is a type of contract. In order to enter into a contract you need competent parties. No (non-human) animal qualifies as a competent party. Therefore, inter-species marriage is impossible in our legal system. Um, I think that covers it. I'm feeling like a pedantic fool for having written this, I need a beer then maybe it will seem funny.

Dennis:

I agree with the concept that marriage is a contract. The rules of common law contracts includes a meeting of the minds of competent parties.

The blurring area that I envision is what is happening in Germany, for example, where the argument is being made for primates to be appointed attorneys, or the equivalent of guardian ad litems to zealously advocate for their rights.

I can see the day where that chimpanzee would be appointed a human attorney to represent its interests in being "married" to the wacko woman.

Adam

[john42t]

[...] her rejection by the father she loved, by the first man she loved as a girl, [...], her failed reunion with her sister [...]

Don't know about any of this. Can somebody recommend sources?

[Selene]

[...] her rejection by the father she loved, by the first man she loved as a girl, [...], her failed reunion with her sister [...]

Don't know about any of this. Can somebody recommend sources?

John:

Sure, The Heller biography, Ayn Rand and the World She Made.

On pages 42-44 where Heller describes Ayn's first flesh and blood infatuation, one Lev Bekkerman, who was four (4) years older than she. She fell

"'madly and desperately' in love with him." [pg.43].

Continuing, Heller writes that:

The love affair didn't end happily. Rand was open, possibly too open, about her feelings

She pursued him, and he didn't like it. 'I knew he didn't like it," she would later say.

Rand's failed reunion with her sister; Heller, pgs 393 to 397.

"...Nora did not approve of America. She disliked American conveniences, which left her with nothing to

do all day; she preferred her old routine of waiting in food lines and gossipping with her friends, she told

Elayne Kalberman. When Kalberman asked what she and her friends talked about, she said that they

discussed freedom and what it would be like to do and say anything they wanted, adding however, that

they really didn't mind the Sooviet way of life. One day she went into the store to buy a tube of toothpaste

and found herself overwhelmed by the number of brands and sizes and became angry when a clerk wasn't

willing to help her choose. Why were there so many kinds of everything? How did New Yorkers stand the

crowds of strangers? Why was Central Park so dirty? [bottom page 395 to top page 396 - Heller].

Worst of all. Nora did not like Rand's novels.

Nora preferred his [solzhenitsyn's] to her [Rand's] own, she [Rand] demanded that Nora return her books.

Nora complied. All told, the little sister pronounced her older sister's writings to be 'fake' and 'lacking in

talent,' and she paid no more attention to it. [page 396 - Heller].

Upon her little sister's return to Russia, Rand spoke no more of her sisters, but "...she must have sorely felt the loss."

"Nora died in St. Petersburg in 1999, at the age of eighty-eight, without ever again speaking to Rand." [page 397 Heller].

I found nothing to indicate "...rejection by the father she loved."

Adam

[caroljane]

The tragedies in Ayn Rand's life were real, but it is difficult to class "rejection by the first man she ever loved" as a tragedy on a scale with the others in her life. Such rejection is unbearably painful at the time, but it is a hazard of young adulthood that so many survive -- it's like calling the measles a near-fatal illness with enduring consequences.

[Selene]

The tragedies in Ayn Rand's life were real, but it is difficult to class "rejection by the first man she ever loved" as a tragedy on a scale with the others in her life. Such rejection is unbearably painful at the time, but it is a hazard of young adulthood that so many survive -- it's like calling the measles a near-fatal illness with enduring consequences.

Carol:

Those were Barbara Branden's chosen words to describe the incidences. If that is an accurate post that Peter posted. One aspect of the post by Barbara that I am checking on in the Heller book is the "...rejection by the father she loved."

I know that her mother allegedly rejected her. If in fact the portrayal of her mother is accurate, she looks, to me like a Lillian Rearden with children.

As to her father, Heller notes that:

Twelve-year old Rand was in the store on the day when Bolshevik soldiers arrived brandishing guns.

The anger, helplessness, and frustration she remembered seeing in her father's remained with her

all her life; the tenacity she bestows on her American businessman-hero Hank Rearden as he confronts

the U.S. government's bureaucratic 'looters and moochers' in

Atlas Shrugged

can be seen as her

extended version of getting this scene right. Her father was out of business, and out of work. [Heller pg.

31-32].

I can find nothing in the Heller book to indicate the rejection by her father. Her mother yes, but not her father.

Therefore, either Peter's post is in error, or Barbara's post has an error, or she has information that Heller did not obtain.

Adam

[caroljane]

By "first man she ever loved" I wasn't referring to her father but to her would-be boyfriend Lev.

I agree that rejection by a father (if it happened) is a tragedy, especially for a soul so hungry for heroes as Rand

[Selene]

Carol:

Are we having "quote" issues?

Adam

[9thdoctor]

Sure, The Heller biography, Ayn Rand and the World She Made.

I recommend Barbara Branden’s book first. Heller is worthwhile, particularly for the early Russian chapters, but the little “gotcha” points she tries to make get tiring. I wrote some on this on the thread for her book, but it’s an awfully long thread and I’m not up for hunting it down. One example was Heller quoting Rand concerning honesty, then disclosing that Rand lied to get out of Russia. Gotcha. As though her view of honesty was like Kant's categorical imperative. Ugh.

I found nothing to indicate "...rejection by the father she loved."

As I recall her father was very distant, that’s all there was to it. I don’t think there was any particular instance of rejection.

[caroljane]

Carol:

Are we having "quote" issues?

Adam

Nay! we are having lolling-around-hitting-the-wrong-button issues.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Blackhorse's comment about Pandora's box on gay marriage opening the way to other forms of marriage (like marriage between different species, etc.) is almost identical to a comment I read by Nathaniel Branden. I think it was in an interview, but I no longer remember where.

No way. Seriously? And you were on or off the wagon in the time period you believe you read this?

Dennis.

Really. And I was not drunk or doped up.

I found it here from a 2004 interview (AM is Alec Mouhibian):

AM: You have publicly repudiated your previous stance on homosexuality. You said you no longer attempt conversions with patients, and you have written a blurb for Chris Sciabbara’s monograph, Ayn Rand, Homosexuality, & Human Liberation. That said, what do you think about the flaming issue of gay marriage?

NB: At a deep level, I do not really care about the issue one way or the other. One level up, I am tempted to wish they would agree upon, instead of gay marriage, entering into relationship contracts that would have all the legal advantages of marriage. Because it does strike me as strange that as long as we have had a human history, marriage has been between a man and a woman. So while I understand why some want it, I can also understand why people can be against it.

Of course, so many problems we have in this world we would not have in a free society. If they wanted to have a contract, they could do it and call it “marriage.” Personally, I would not take a position against gay marriage—I do not see the potential damage in the situation. I am troubled, however, at the redefining of marriage. Where could it lead you next? Once marriage does not mean a monogamous heterosexual relationship, why can’t there be a marriage between three people? Who says that marriage has to be between members of the same species?

Michael

[9thdoctor]

Really. And I was not drunk or doped up.

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle.

[Selene]

http://

[Peter]

Madman wrote:

Therefore, either Peter's post is in error, or Barbara's post has an error, or she has information that Heller did not obtain.

Adam

End quote

Your posts and your great info and links are continuously improving, Adam. Thanks!

I kept that that particular BB post inside my hotmail account since the day it was published by Barbara Branden. When I repost anything I may fix the spacing, delete the old > mark that appeared at the beginning of every quoted sentence, and fix any errors my spell checker turns red to indicate an error. Otherwise I don’t change anything except maybe the web address for confidentiality, but Barbara has her own web site so she isn’t hiding.

Now with the older George H. Smith posts, his columns were a mere three inches wide, and I try to fix that automatically changing the “Page Setup” function under Microsoft’s “File” button, or I do it manually.

Unfortunately, I did not save everything, which I could have done. I just saved from Atlantis and OWL what I liked or agreed with. That was stupid of me, and gives an incomplete picture of the threads back then. But even so, what I have depicts a brilliant place and time. NB ,BB, Ghs, Roark (Roger Bissell) Madden, Dwyer, the various “Ellens” including Ellen Moore were and are, wonderful writers.

I have searched my files for “key words” for Ghs sometimes successfully, sometimes not. When you are young you think you can always recall, and duplicate the way you wrote way back then, but memory fails. I know, I remember I wrote something a certain way and turned a unique phrase but I can no longer remember what it was.

Peter

[Selene]

Peter:

I was not implying that you changed anything. That would be completely out of character for you. I thought that it might have been an error because that father reference seemed to be a complete surprise to me.

However, I have not read Barbara, or Nathanial's books on those years. I may actually be avoiding reading them because I am sure it is going to be quite painful and emotional to go through that again.

Thanks for the information though.

Adam

[9thdoctor]

http://reason.com/bl...libertarian-com

Looks like Gary Johnson is going to run as a Libertarian. I have mixed feelings about it, since the "anyone but Obama" position has ever increasing appeal for me. Plus, Ron Paul's chances are somewhere higher than zero, and Johnson would be the ideal running mate for him (their main difference seems to be abortion). Well, I suppose someone's going to run on the Libertarian ticket, so some vote siphoning is bound to happen even if Ron Paul gets the nomination.

I'd hate for Johnson to be the Libertarian I didn't vote for, but that's how it might pan out.

[9thdoctor]

I suppose that by the time the Libertarian convention takes place and their candidate is chosen, we'll already know whether Ron Paul has the Republican nomination, and if not, just how bad the actual nominee is. If it is Ron Paul, I wouldn't be too surprised if the LP didn't run a candidate at all.

[Peter]

There are three Libertarians already running but I can’t remember who they are. Ron Paul has been too successful within in the GOP at getting his Tea Party ideas across to run on the Libertarian ticket at the last minute. He would lose his chance to be a keynote speaker at the Republican Convention. He would earn the everlasting animosity of the Ayn Rand crowd and Republicans and independents who want Obama out. Johnson is a different story.

Peter

[Selene]

Here are the candidates...check out Miss Joy Waymire at the bottom, oh sure, we are a really serious party!

http://www.lp.org/blogs/staff/libertarian-presidential-candidates

[9thdoctor]

http://reason.com/bl...o-gary-johnsons

This story is good for a laugh. Michigan is giving Gary Johnson ballot access trouble, so the solution they're looking at is putting a different Libertarian candidate on the ballot in that state. His name? Gary Johnson...of Texas.

[9thdoctor]

Here’s a kind of follow up relevant to ballot access. The Libertarians are trying to get Mitt Romney thrown off the ballot in Washington State, on the grounds that the Republican party does not qualify as a “major party” there, and therefore they should have had to jump through all the same hoops as the LP to get on the ballot.

http://reason.com/bl...washin

Payback's a bitch.

[Selene]

Yep.

GOP is challenging Johnson's 50,000 + signatures in Pennsylvania...he needed 21,000 or so. Rule of thumb for insurgent party petitions is about 3.5 times the number needed so this could be very close in Pennsylvania.

[9thdoctor]

Here's a new one from the TAS website. It kept starting and stopping when I tried to play it over there, so I haven't been able to watch it yet.

http://www.atlassociety.org/ele/gary-johnson-atlas-shrugged-election-2012

[caroljane]

Impressive, but why is he wearing a fascinator?

[Selene]

Impressive, but why is he wearing a fascinator?

One theory is that the interview was conducted on line....

Of course, Maureen Dowd believes that he had electrodes connected to his genitals which is why his face looks so pained when answering the questions.

[Selene]

Tuesday, Aug 28, 2012 07:45 AM EDT

Gary Johnson: “It borders on racist”

The Libertarian Party candidate attacks the GOP's immigration platform -- and says he'd host a show on Current TV

By Alex Pareene

Gary Johnson (Credit: AP/Joe Burbank)

TAMPA — After successfully navigating multiple security checkpoints, including the actual TSA security line inside the Tampa Convention Center, in order to get a free coffee from the Google press lounge, I immediately left the convention center Monday and walked back through the heavily guarded security zone out to desolate, windy, humid downtown Tampa, currently patrolled by helicopters, National Guard, local cops made up to look like national guardsmen, and probably death drones. I was meeting up with Libertarian Party candidate and former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson, who was spending a portion of the afternoon holding court at a local coffee shop, across the street from a closed-down record store. I compared it, when I met Johnson, to a country under military occupation. He called it “the future of America.” (He probably meant with the heavily militarized police force, invisible “free speech” zones and death drones and so forth, though it also applies to the closed-down record store.)

Johnson spent Sunday at PaulFest, making an appeal to the supporters of the other libertarian candidate from the 2012 primary campaign. Paul’s decision to run again probably cost Johnson — a candidate whose résumé should have made him harder to dismiss — precious media oxygen. Now he’s the official Libertarian Party nominee, and he’s fighting for ballot access and debate invitations. He seemed tired (it’s been a long campaign!) but he was serious, sincere and pissed at his former party. (I’d heard he was sorta intense — he climbs mountains and never touches alcohol or tobacco.)

Here’s some news: Americans Elect accomplished something! Johnson will be, hilariously, the only candidate to run on the ballot line of “Americans Elect,” the weird, well-funded elite centrist “Internet candidate” campaign that launched to much fanfare last year and then totally fizzled out from lack of voter interest, but not before spending millions of dollars to win ballot access in more than two dozen states. “To my knowledge, Americans Elect will have one candidate on the ballot in one state,” Johnson said, “and it’s Oklahoma.”