Posting Guidelines and Insulting Behavior


Philip Coates

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One would think it would be more understood that JR's rant about sports was a rant and considered in toto. As such he illustrated an important truth: sports ain't adult. Sports help young bodies develop into strong and corrdinated bodies while the kids have fun. What is really funny here has been the argument by diagrams attempting to prove him wrong. Even chess is not an adult use of the mind. In fact, too much chess might retard your offspring. Ayn Rand once remarked how she felt she was living in a world of children. JR has not been so generous; adults as children is a contradiction. They are actually retarded.

--Brant

Brant:

Certainly not trying to prove JR "wrong." I am putting forth affirmative statements that any "game" or "sport" has dimensions that are intellectual if you chose to use your mind to enhance your experience. Just like a book, or a piece of music.

You are the driver of the experience.

Adam

chess is not an adult use of the mind...really? Now that is an intriguing statement.

...A proper use of the adult mind is expansive and creative and understanding the world and acting rationally in it. It's not the self-destructive genius of a Bobby Fisher, feeding on itself for not having another outlet. ...

--Brant

Brant:

We are in agreement. I am talking about enjoying chess as an adult, not making chess your only aspect of life.

Bobby Fisher had no other life aspects other than walking. I have heard this author interviewed about precisely your point, His book is here.

Unless you are making another point that I am not getting.

Adam

That's funny, Adam; I'm reading another book also entitled Endgame.

--Brant

but I don't want to read about Bobby

Endgame-V2.jpg

This one?

Nope. It's about the destruction of debt in today's economy.

--Brant

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On this thread, I'm still at the point of believing that JR is not foolish enough to believe the silly crap that he's saying. I'd say that I have more respect for him than that. I've been operating under the assumption that we're having some fun jousting, and that he's yanking chains and hoping to get a rise out of people. If it turns out that I've seriously misread him, I'll eventually drop it and lower my estimate of his intelligence and personality accordingly.

It's hard to refute an argument made up entirely of condescension.

--Brant

I have to agree with Brant there, Jonathan. The comment is more condescending than anything you critique AR for saying, let alone JR.

What does it amount to except a threat?: Unless JR says he doesn't believe "the silly crap that he's saying," there goes your "estimate of his intelligence and personality."

How is this one whit better than AR's "And so, gentle reader, do you," which you've interpreted as an intimidation technique?

Ellen

Ellen,

Is it just me, or is there an undercurrent on this thread of the perennial male sport of the assessment and measurement of each others', uh, brains?

Edited by daunce lynam
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On this thread, I'm still at the point of believing that JR is not foolish enough to believe the silly crap that he's saying. I'd say that I have more respect for him than that. I've been operating under the assumption that we're having some fun jousting, and that he's yanking chains and hoping to get a rise out of people. If it turns out that I've seriously misread him, I'll eventually drop it and lower my estimate of his intelligence and personality accordingly.

It's hard to refute an argument made up entirely of condescension.

--Brant

I have to agree with Brant there, Jonathan. The comment is more condescending than anything you critique AR for saying, let alone JR.

What does it amount to except a threat?: Unless JR says he doesn't believe "the silly crap that he's saying," there goes your "estimate of his intelligence and personality."

How is this one whit better than AR's "And so, gentle reader, do you," which you've interpreted as an intimidation technique?

Ellen

Ellen,

Is it just me, or is there an undercurrent on this thread of the perennial male sport of the assessment and measurement of each others', uh, brains?

Daunce: it took you only 1400 posts to figure that out?

I hereby petition MSK to strip you of all of your hard-earned dollars signs and require that your post-count start from zero, once again.

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On this thread, I'm still at the point of believing that JR is not foolish enough to believe the silly crap that he's saying. I'd say that I have more respect for him than that. I've been operating under the assumption that we're having some fun jousting, and that he's yanking chains and hoping to get a rise out of people. If it turns out that I've seriously misread him, I'll eventually drop it and lower my estimate of his intelligence and personality accordingly.

It's hard to refute an argument made up entirely of condescension.

--Brant

I have to agree with Brant there, Jonathan. The comment is more condescending than anything you critique AR for saying, let alone JR.

What does it amount to except a threat?: Unless JR says he doesn't believe "the silly crap that he's saying," there goes your "estimate of his intelligence and personality."

How is this one whit better than AR's "And so, gentle reader, do you," which you've interpreted as an intimidation technique?

Ellen

Ellen,

Is it just me, or is there an undercurrent on this thread of the perennial male sport of the assessment and measurement of each others', uh, brains?

Daunce: it took you only 1400 posts to figure that out?

I hereby petition MSK to strip you of all of your hard-earned dollars signs and require that your post-count start from zero, once again.

PDS,

you mean I earned those dollar signs? I thought they represented what I owed MSK for publishing me! I was living in dread of getting the invoice.

Delightedly,

Carol

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On this thread, I'm still at the point of believing that JR is not foolish enough to believe the silly crap that he's saying. I'd say that I have more respect for him than that. I've been operating under the assumption that we're having some fun jousting, and that he's yanking chains and hoping to get a rise out of people. If it turns out that I've seriously misread him, I'll eventually drop it and lower my estimate of his intelligence and personality accordingly.

It's hard to refute an argument made up entirely of condescension.

--Brant

I have to agree with Brant there, Jonathan. The comment is more condescending than anything you critique AR for saying, let alone JR.

What does it amount to except a threat?: Unless JR says he doesn't believe "the silly crap that he's saying," there goes your "estimate of his intelligence and personality."

How is this one whit better than AR's "And so, gentle reader, do you," which you've interpreted as an intimidation technique?

Ellen

Ellen,

Is it just me, or is there an undercurrent on this thread of the perennial male sport of the assessment and measurement of each others', uh, brains?

Daunce: it took you only 1400 posts to figure that out?

I hereby petition MSK to strip you of all of your hard-earned dollars signs and require that your post-count start from zero, once again.

PDS,

you mean I earned those dollar signs? I thought they represented what I owed MSK for publishing me! I was living in dread of getting the invoice.

Delightedly,

Carol

Nope. Around here, you get the money for nothing and clicks are free. :lol:

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Michael,

You posted: "get out of that mindset in terms of the bad part--the sweet poison of blind allegiance, but still keep the good part--the vision and dreams."

VERY well stated. If all Objectivists could adhere to this, we would be faced with far less division and animosity.

Cyrus

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The Big Question is how long it will take our beloved Phil to return to the fold.

Anyone want to run Vegas odds? I'm at 50/50 right now, with a bullet.

rde

I Bet He Is Lurking

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You would have enjoyed playing it Jonathan

It does sound like fun. There was a game that I had on my first Mac that was similar. I don't remember the name of it, but it was mostly about strategy and had some options for customization, which made it very fun once you knew what you were doing. The only differences between it and what you've described above was that the defensive player had the option of being able to change his mind and shift his team, prior to the snap, in response to how he interpreted the offensive player's formation, but the offense had the advantage of the snap -- it took a second or two for a defense to alter between formations, so the offensive player could quick-snap to take advantage of his opponent's shifting. Once the ball was snapped, the computer took over and ran the plays as instructed (no real-time interactivity after the snap). The outcomes were based purely on the proximity of defenders to the ball carrier, or at least that's the way I'm remembering it.

Have you played any of the current games on Xbox, Playstation, Wii, etc.? I haven't, but this thread has got me interested in looking into it. I'd imagine that the Madden or NCAA games have some very advanced and realistic features.

Also, have you played APBA Football? I haven't, but I had friends in high school who spent their summer evenings playing ABPA Baseball, and they seemed to love the fact that it used cards to represent each individual pro player's strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps APBA Football is similar to your Pro Quarterback game?

J

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The Big Question is how long it will take our beloved Phil to return to the fold.

Anyone want to run Vegas odds? I'm at 50/50 right now, with a bullet.

rde

I Bet He Is Lurking

Phil has returned, but under a different name. I am somewhat surprised nobody else has taken note of this.

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The Big Question is how long it will take our beloved Phil to return to the fold.

Anyone want to run Vegas odds? I'm at 50/50 right now, with a bullet.

rde

I Bet He Is Lurking

Phil has returned, but under a different name. I am somewhat surprised nobody else has taken note of this.

Is he using the quote function?

--Brant

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The Big Question is how long it will take our beloved Phil to return to the fold.

Anyone want to run Vegas odds? I'm at 50/50 right now, with a bullet.

rde

I Bet He Is Lurking

Phil has returned, but under a different name. I am somewhat surprised nobody else has taken note of this.

Is he using the quote function?

--Brant

No, but I will transfer 2 of my 4 $$ markers to the first person who correctly guesses my guess.

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The Big Question is how long it will take our beloved Phil to return to the fold.

Anyone want to run Vegas odds? I'm at 50/50 right now, with a bullet.

rde

I Bet He Is Lurking

Phil has returned, but under a different name. I am somewhat surprised nobody else has taken note of this.

Is he using the quote function?

--Brant

No, but I will transfer 2 of my 4 $ markers to the first person who correctly guesses my guess.

Whoever you think it is you are wrong. I guess you're simply putting us on.

--Brant

researched it

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The Big Question is how long it will take our beloved Phil to return to the fold.

Anyone want to run Vegas odds? I'm at 50/50 right now, with a bullet.

rde

I Bet He Is Lurking

Phil has returned, but under a different name. I am somewhat surprised nobody else has taken note of this.

Is he using the quote function?

Alright, time for the big confession. It’s me! I created this Ninth Doctor character just to demonstrate how not to act. To throw everyone off the scent I’ve used the quote function and posted cartoons and videos while in this disguise. Had y’all fooled, ha ha!

Edited by Ninth Doctor
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You would have enjoyed playing it Jonathan

It does sound like fun. There was a game that I had on my first Mac that was similar. I don't remember the name of it, but it was mostly about strategy and had some options for customization, which made it very fun once you knew what you were doing. The only differences between it and what you've described above was that the defensive player had the option of being able to change his mind and shift his team, prior to the snap, in response to how he interpreted the offensive player's formation, but the offense had the advantage of the snap -- it took a second or two for a defense to alter between formations, so the offensive player could quick-snap to take advantage of his opponent's shifting. Once the ball was snapped, the computer took over and ran the plays as instructed (no real-time interactivity after the snap). The outcomes were based purely on the proximity of defenders to the ball carrier, or at least that's the way I'm remembering it.

Have you played any of the current games on Xbox, Playstation, Wii, etc.? I haven't, but this thread has got me interested in looking into it. I'd imagine that the Madden or NCAA games have some very advanced and realistic features.

Also, have you played APBA Football? I haven't, but I had friends in high school who spent their summer evenings playing ABPA Baseball, and they seemed to love the fact that it used cards to represent each individual pro player's strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps APBA Football is similar to your Pro Quarterback game?

J

Jonathan:

Never been drawn by "computer games" per se, but my very close friend who went to graduate school with me and also taught with me at the university was a big ABBA guy. He and I merged ABBA football and the Pro Quarterback game into one game, unfortunately, there were only one or two others with ability who could handle the game.

My friend was a Frank Gifford fanatic and I remember one game between us when there was a third and four situation at a key point in the game. I, as a defensive coach, kept a tendency sheet and keyed Gifford on a WS screen which basically meant that it should have lost yardage because I had the "perfect call" which did not make him happy, but because he rolled triple sixes on the three dice which meant a breakaway on Gifford's card he still gained three yards, but since I had the "perfect" defensive call, I stopped his drive. Lol.

We also did the same with ABBA baseball, sports illustrated baseball and a Stratomatic baseball game. We added the dimensions of the ball parks and weather conditions which made our "game" exceptionally realistic. For example, the Cubs field at Wriggley is known for it's wind factors coming off the lake at game time as a factor for any defense to consider in terms of how you would pitch a power hitter and position your outfield defence.

When the wind is blowing in from center field, the ball, logically does not carry well. We all know about the left field wall in Fenway and Death Valley in Yankee Stadium in left center field. You build your team around the dimensions of the ball park. I think it is called "character" lol.

My dream is when technology will allow a holographic "team" to be projected on your living room floor wherein you could don a virtual helmet and "be" on the field taking the snap as a Johnny Unitas looking across the line at a Sam Huff, the Giant middle linebacker and call your own game. Your "opponent" could don their helmet and be in the Sam Huff on field view.

I have not checked out the current computer games, but our conversation here has also made me curious.

You should see how we changed RISK, navies, paratroopers, air power and nuclear weapons...lol.

Adam

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What does it amount to except a threat?: Unless JR says he doesn't believe "the silly crap that he's saying," there goes your "estimate of his intelligence and personality."

Did you grasp the strategic depth of the football plays that were posted above? Do you think that JR grasped it? Which defensive strategies and tactics would you used to counter the plays? I'd think that it would be very easy for you to answer, since football is something that any child, brute or moron can understand, and requires no more intelligence than a game of tic-tac-toe. So let's see how you and JR are going to use your Xs against Walsh and Lombardi's Os.

J

J, just curious: Have you somehow formed the impression that I agree with JR's views about sports?

I don't.

Ellen

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What does it amount to except a threat?: Unless JR says he doesn't believe "the silly crap that he's saying," there goes your "estimate of his intelligence and personality."

Did you grasp the strategic depth of the football plays that were posted above? Do you think that JR grasped it? Which defensive strategies and tactics would you used to counter the plays? I'd think that it would be very easy for you to answer, since football is something that any child, brute or moron can understand, and requires no more intelligence than a game of tic-tac-toe. So let's see how you and JR are going to use your Xs against Walsh and Lombardi's Os.

J

J, just curious: Have you somehow formed the impression that I agree with JR's views about sports?

I don't.

Ellen

No, I don't know what you think of sports. I just thought that I'd point out that if you don't understand the strategic nuances of the football plays that were posted, then it would follow that, by JR's standards, you are very stupid -- his attempts to push people's buttons inadvertently apply more to you and to him than they do to his intended targets.

To answer your original question -- "What does it amount to except a threat?" -- no, my comment wasn't a threat, but a statement of fact. Likewise, if JR were to assert that 2 + 2 = 5 in order to get a rise out of people, that would be one thing, but if it turned out that he really believed it, I'd have to reevaluate my view of his intelligence. Wouldn't you?

J

I feel a rap coming on.

'Tis the sport to have the retard

hoist with his own petard...

Edited by Jonathan
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What does it amount to except a threat?: Unless JR says he doesn't believe "the silly crap that he's saying," there goes your "estimate of his intelligence and personality."

Did you grasp the strategic depth of the football plays that were posted above? Do you think that JR grasped it? Which defensive strategies and tactics would you used to counter the plays? I'd think that it would be very easy for you to answer, since football is something that any child, brute or moron can understand, and requires no more intelligence than a game of tic-tac-toe. So let's see how you and JR are going to use your Xs against Walsh and Lombardi's Os.

J

J, just curious: Have you somehow formed the impression that I agree with JR's views about sports?

I don't.

Ellen

No, I don't know what you think of sports. I just thought that I'd point out that if you don't understand the strategic nuances of the football plays that were posted, then it would follow that, by JR's standards, you are very stupid -- his attempts to push people's buttons inadvertently apply more to you and to him than they do to his intended targets.

To answer your original question -- "What does it amount to except a threat?" -- no, my comment wasn't a threat, but a statement of fact. Likewise, if JR were to assert that 2 + 2 = 5 in order to get a rise out of people, that would be one thing, but if it turned out that he really believed it, I'd have to reevaluate my view of his intelligence. Wouldn't you?

The brains in football seem to mostly belong to the coaching staff, maybe the quarterback, the running backs and receivers. But the game is start and go, start and go. So most of the brainiacianians are only for one play at a time. That you need to know a whole bunch of different plays is where the real brainwork must reside, but if your basic game strategy doesn't work, good luck changing gears. It's ironic that the major sport where you need the most brains, American football, is the sport that causes the most brain damage. (There is no sport in boxing, btw, unless its Olympic and the fighters wear headgear. What's the sport in trying to hurt someone by knocking him out?)

--Brant

yes. I can write about things I don't know much about, but why is that a surprise?

Edited by Brant Gaede
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I am looking forward to tomorrow night's Ultimate Fighting Championship Welterweight title fight, and indeed, plan to pay an exorbitant pay per view price to watch GSP defend his title. UFC fighting is human chess, with fists involved. Very complicated, and very impressive, especially if you happen to be a martial artist. Some of my pals refer to this sport as "human cockfighting" and look down their noses at my interest in this sport. These same pals are big football fans, and the irony of their double-standard seems lost on them.

My point is that people can argue "inside sports" all day about what is good or not, what is complicated or not, etc., My contention would be that a like or dislike of certain sports is driven as much by one's temperament as anything else. In this sense, JR has in fact staked out one of the few defensible positions regarding the topic of good sports vs. bad sports: he thinks they are all bad. This is a principled position, and has the (accidental or intentional?) added benefit of confirming his view that most people are morons.

I can't help but note, however, that JR has a great big cigar in his mouth in his picture. My assumption is that was not a random cigar, but more likely evidence of a cultivated habit and enjoyment of smoking cigars. The cigar even appears to be lit. Smoking kills people, does it not?

How, then, is smoking a cigar less moronic than watching a baseball game? :lol:

Edited by PDS
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The Big Question is how long it will take our beloved Phil to return to the fold.

Anyone want to run Vegas odds? I'm at 50/50 right now, with a bullet.

rde

I Bet He Is Lurking

Phil has returned, but under a different name. I am somewhat surprised nobody else has taken note of this.

Is he using the quote function?

Alright, time for the big confession. It’s me! I created this Ninth Doctor character just to demonstrate how not to act. To throw everyone off the scent I’ve used the quote function and posted cartoons and videos while in this disguise. Had y’all fooled, ha ha!

Ahahaah, that's my favorite for the best of the week of OL satire!! You pulled a real Pynchon here, ND! Kudos! :D

I'm starting to get an Oedipa Maas-like feeling as I'm looking for 'mysterious clues' and stuff. ;)

As an award for trying to string us along in this cybertertulia here, allow me to give you the name "Phil Inverarity" ;) (you can see to what degree The Crying has rubbed off on me.)

But seriously, I do miss Phil because of the literature discussions.

Je suis A La Recherche Du Phil Perdu!! Où est-il, notre Phil?

Edited by Xray
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I wonder if jealousy is a real emotion or simply a denatured intellectualization of envy. Every adult knows what envy feels like, I do, but I've always been very good at IDing what it was and what was going on and killing it in the crib. But jealousy? Off the top of my head I think I see the awful truth. Jealousy is a cheap way of acknowledging envy in a more socially acceptable way--if you're jealous you're mad, angry mad, no need to own up to the envy just below the surface giving jealousy a foundation to stand on. Envy is ugly ugly, jealousy understandably ugly but excusable for a vibrant, dynamic, alive human being. No need to go deep.

--Brant

Both jealousy amd envy are feelings deeply rooted in humans and closely connected. Envy goes toward wanting something another individual has (possessions, looks, attributes like e. g. popularity etc.), and jealousy is the feeling of a person's frustration/anger/despair because he/she believes that another individual is being preferred by others to him/her.

For example: John is both envious of his brother's athletic ability and jealous of the brother because he sees him get lot of attention and praise from others for it.

At the root of envy lies the human need for security: to "have" something, to "possess" it gives us satisfaction because deep down it translates as "survival advantage".

We are not that different here from a wolf guarding its piece of prey against the attempts by the other pack members to snatch it.

At the root of jealousy lies the human need for appreciation. We can't survive without the group, hence being accepted and appreciated is essential for our survival.

That's why the feeling of being being rejected can be so devastating. A jealous person is a person fearing rejection.

I've thought of jealousy as resultant from envy as long as I remember thinking about it. (This is why I disagree with the "jealousy" diagnosis of AR's reaction to Patrecia, since I think that Rand wasn't envying Patrecia's characteristics. "Outrage," imo, is the accurate category.)

Ellen

If I recall correctly (see BB's book), AR said to NB: "How dare you reject me!"

Imo it was outrage because she felt rejected.

The feeling of rejection can be found at the root of every jealous reaction.

Edited by Xray
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J, just curious: Have you somehow formed the impression that I agree with JR's views about sports?

I don't.

Ellen

No, I don't know what you think of sports. I just thought that I'd point out that if you don't understand the strategic nuances of the football plays that were posted, then it would follow that, by JR's standards, you are very stupid -- his attempts to push people's buttons inadvertently apply more to you and to him than they do to his intended targets.

Are you still assuming that JR was "attempt[ing] to push people's buttons" and that he had "intended targets"? He explained how he got into this -- not by desire but because people queried him after his explaining why he hadn't read a book by Malamud.

To answer your original question -- "What does it amount to except a threat?" -- no, my comment wasn't a threat, but a statement of fact. Likewise, if JR were to assert that 2 + 2 = 5 in order to get a rise out of people, that would be one thing, but if it turned out that he really believed it, I'd have to reevaluate my view of his intelligence. Wouldn't you?

More of the same.

Here's your original statement:

On this thread, I'm still at the point of believing that JR is not foolish enough to believe the silly crap that he's saying. I'd say that I have more respect for him than that. I've been operating under the assumption that we're having some fun jousting, and that he's yanking chains and hoping to get a rise out of people. If it turns out that I've seriously misread him, I'll eventually drop it and lower my estimate of his intelligence and personality accordingly.

J

Only someone foolish could possibly believe what JR said, so unless you're provided with evidence that you've "seriously misread him," you'll lower your estimate of his "intelligence and personality." Is that not, in fewer words, what the statement says?

Ellen

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J, just curious: Have you somehow formed the impression that I agree with JR's views about sports?

I don't.

Ellen

No, I don't know what you think of sports. I just thought that I'd point out that if you don't understand the strategic nuances of the football plays that were posted, then it would follow that, by JR's standards, you are very stupid -- his attempts to push people's buttons inadvertently apply more to you and to him than they do to his intended targets.

Are you still assuming that JR was "attempt[ing] to push people's buttons" and that he had "intended targets"?

Yes. JR likes to try to upset people. That's not to say that he always has specific intended targets in mind. I think that sometimes he likes to cast a wide net hoping to catch what he can.

He explained how he got into this -- not by desire but because people queried him after his explaining why he hadn't read a book by Malamud.

I think he'll take almost any opportunity that arises to push people's buttons. One needn't initiate a discussion if one has the goals of wanting to upset people and of hoping to cultivate the reputation of being an intimidating intellectual bad ass.

Just to be clear, I believe that he detests sports. What I don't believe is that he's actually stupid enough to not recognize that the versions of sports that adults play are significantly more complex than those that children play.

To answer your original question -- "What does it amount to except a threat?" -- no, my comment wasn't a threat, but a statement of fact. Likewise, if JR were to assert that 2 + 2 = 5 in order to get a rise out of people, that would be one thing, but if it turned out that he really believed it, I'd have to reevaluate my view of his intelligence. Wouldn't you?

More of the same.

You didn't answer the question.

Here's your original statement:

On this thread, I'm still at the point of believing that JR is not foolish enough to believe the silly crap that he's saying. I'd say that I have more respect for him than that. I've been operating under the assumption that we're having some fun jousting, and that he's yanking chains and hoping to get a rise out of people. If it turns out that I've seriously misread him, I'll eventually drop it and lower my estimate of his intelligence and personality accordingly.

J

Only someone foolish could possibly believe what JR said, so unless you're provided with evidence that you've "seriously misread him," you'll lower your estimate of his "intelligence and personality." Is that not, in fewer words, what the statement says?

No. My position is that if -- not "unless" -- I become convinced that I've seriously misread JR, then I'll lower my estimate of his intelligence and personality. My view is that he's talking trash and trying to get a rise out of people. If he is not, and if he truly does not grasp how complex adult basketball and football can be, then he is foolish.

J

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No. My position is that if -- not "unless" -- I become convinced that I've seriously misread JR, then I'll lower my estimate of his intelligence and personality. My view is that he's talking trash and trying to get a rise out of people. If he is not, and if he truly does not grasp how complex adult basketball and football can be, then he is foolish.

Basketball is very simple: give the ball to Michael Jordan.

Little League Baseball isn't much less complex than major league.

Football is exceedingly stupid: six hundred pounds of armored human flesh colliding again and again.

Jeff: The Titanic is sinking. What idiots to drive an ocean liner into an iceberg! Jonathan: Unless Jeff tells me about the complexity of the design and construction, I'll lower my estimate of his intelligence (and personality?).

--Brant

this is fun

Edited by Brant Gaede
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