Sign of the Times Middle East Style

Michael Stuart Kelly · March 10, 2011

Adam,

Thanks for the correction. It was Wright who went, not Obama.

Michael

Selene · March 10, 2011

Adam,
Thanks for the correction. It was Wright who went, not Obama.
Michael

Michael.

My pleasure. You have done the same for me and others.

Adam

william.scherk · March 10, 2011

Gaddafi has been a source. He has spread a lot of Libya's wealth around in the USA. I saw the other day he even has a group of Harvard professors on his dole.

Where did you see this? What kind of 'dole'? I would like to know more about this story.

Selene · March 10, 2011

Gaddafi has been a source. He has spread a lot of Libya's wealth around in the USA. I saw the other day he even has a group of Harvard professors on his dole.
Where did you see this? What kind of 'dole'? I would like to know more about this story.

Mother Earth made reference to the Harvard Professor

Michael Stuart Kelly · March 10, 2011

Now France is trying to take some leadership against Gaddafi.

I can just see other European countries weighing their options on getting France's slice of Libyan oil if it doesn't work out.

All I think Obama wants is chaos so he can push the carbon emission cap and trade scam.

Michael

caroljane · March 10, 2011

Gaddafi has been a source. He has spread a lot of Libya's wealth around in the USA. I saw the other day he even has a group of Harvard professors on his dole.
Where did you see this? What kind of 'dole'? I would like to know more about this story.
Mother Earth made reference to the Harvard Professor

Uh, Adam, it looks like a fine example of free-market value trading between the Monitor Group and Mo here. Hope Cheney enjoyed sunny Tripoli.

You really can't blame Obama for this one. (smiley face)

Selene · March 10, 2011

Gaddafi has been a source. He has spread a lot of Libya's wealth around in the USA. I saw the other day he even has a group of Harvard professors on his dole.
Where did you see this? What kind of 'dole'? I would like to know more about this story.
Mother Earth made reference to the Harvard Professor
Uh, Adam, it looks like a fine example of free-market value trading between the Monitor Group and Mo here. Hope Cheney enjoyed sunny Tripoli.
You really can't blame Obama for this one. (smiley face)

Um, Carol where did you get the impression I was blaming O'biwan?

I thought I was providing William with the link to the story about Harvard professors and a "dole."

I fail to see what Cheney has to do with what William was inquiring about.

Perhaps you can enlighten me.

Adam

Selene · March 10, 2011

FYI:

This is not good...

Saudi police open fire at protest

By SARAH EL DEEB The Associated Press

Thursday, March 10, 2011; 1:36 PM

CAIRO -- Saudi police have opened fire at a rally in the kingdom's east in an apparent escalation of efforts to stop planned protests.

Government officials have warned they will take strong action if activists take to the streets after increasing calls for large protests around the oil-rich kingdom to press for democratic reforms.

A witness in the eastern city of Qatif says gunfire and stun grenades were fired at several hundred protesters marching in the city streets Thursday. The witness, speaking on condition of anonymity because he feared government reprisal, said police in the area opened fire. The witness saw at least one protester injured.

william.scherk · March 11, 2011

Morocco may turn out to be an anomaly among the Magreb states facing demands for democratic reforms. The King of Morocco has put forth a plan destined to end with a constitutional referendum. It will be interesting to watch the big oil monarchy of Saudi Arabia grapple with the same underlying current of change.

Christian Science Monitor: Can Morocco's King Mohammed VI outpace Morocco's 'winds of change'?

In a rare speech, King Mohammed VI outlined reforms that include a more independent judiciary, a move to direct local elections, and greater human rights.

Reuters Africa: Morocco king announces constitutional reform plan

Morocco's King Mohamed announced a planned constitutional reform on Wednesday and appointed a committee to work with political parties, trade unions and civil society groups to draw up proposals by June.
The king, speaking in a televised address, said the reform would include plans for an independent judiciary, a stronger role for parliament and political parties and a regionalisation programme to devolve more powers to local officials.

Bloomberg: Morocco King Pledges to Alter Constitution, Respond to Calls for Democracy

Morocco’s King Mohammed VI, responding to calls for more democracy, pledged to create a committee to review the North African nation’s constitution by June and hold a referendum on the changes shortly after.
Speaking on television, King Mohammed promised to allow religious freedom and more transparent justice and said the prime minister would come from an elected party. The changes in Morocco come “in view of its progress in democracy,” he said.

Al-Jazeera: Moroccan monarch pledges reform

"We have decided to undertake a comprehensive constitutional reform," King Mohammed said in a televised address on Wednesday, underlining his "firm commitment to giving a strong impetus to the dynamic and deep reforms... taking place".
The live broadcast was the first time the king has delivered an address to the nation since thousands of people demonstrated in several cities on February 20 demanding political reform and limits on his powers.
Six people were killed in unrest that erupted after the demonstrations, including five found burned to death in a bank set ablaze by people whom officials labelled vandals.
Another 128, including 115 members of the security forces, were wounded in the violence and 120 people were arrested, the interior ministry said.

Asharq Alawsat: Morocco king vows sweeping reforms

Opposition Islamist Justice and Development Party (PJD) leader Abdelilah Benkirane welcomed the speech saying that Mohammed had "reacted positively to the demands made by the parties and young people".
"We are almost surprised," he said in a first reaction, welcoming the monarch's "powerful" response.
"The PJD is satisfied. This development looks more like a revolution and the concerned parties are asked to work seriously to make the contents of the speech become reality."
"This is a break with a discredited past," said political scientist Mohamed Darif. "He has met the demands of many Moroccans who never stopped to ask for institutional and political reforms."
"This speech breaks with the monarchy as an executive power. It does not create a parliamentary monarchy but provides for a balanced monarchy where power is divided between the king and a government based on parliament."

Edited March 11, 2011 by william.scherk

william.scherk · March 13, 2011

A round-up of Egyptian news. Constitution not a done deal -- almost six in ten oppose; Muslim Dunderhoods urge acceptance. Arab League head Amr Moussa leads the Egyptian Presidential pack alongside ElBaradei, rejects constitutional amendments, meets Libyan rebel reps, announces Arab League vote for no-fly zone. Egypt and Tunisia market 'revolution' tourism. Egyptian moviemakers plunge into post-revolution productions (file under cultural renaissance and the return of Cairo media power). And the army starts to rebuild the torched church, easing sectarian tensions seen as orchestrated by state security and Mubarak remnants in the 'counter-revolution.'

With the Arab League call that the Security Council sanction a no-fly zone, looks like the ponderous machinery of just war clanks on towards Gaddafi's doom. Russia, China, Turkey, Germany the last hold-outs on international action. Will NATO airpower wait for a UN nod?

Daily Star (Beirut): The right intervention mix for Libya

Al-Ahram (Cairo): Muslim Brotherhood supports Egypt constitutional amendments

Al-Masry Al-Youm (Cairo): Majority of Egyptians against constitutional amendments, says poll

[iDSC Poll (The Egyptian Cabinet's Information and Decision Support Center): Would you agree to the suggested modifications of the Egyptian constitution?]

American Thinker: There Is No Democracy Movement In Egypt

BBC: Arab League 'backs Libya no-fly zone

Other headlines from Al-Masry Al-Youm:

-- via Google Translate, a brief report that the Egyptian Army sets to rebuild the burned church in in the village of Sole, starting tomorrow. I note that the Islamofreakout sites fail to report continuing developments, stopping at the church-burning and the deaths in October 6th city.

And finally a sign that the Egyptian judicial machine still grinds, with much press and TV reporting of the arrest, investigation and prosecution of the those behind the 'camel attack' on Feb 2.

Edited March 13, 2011 by william.scherk

BaalChatzaf · March 13, 2011

FYI:
This is not good...
Saudi police open fire at protest
By SARAH EL DEEB The Associated Press
Thursday, March 10, 2011; 1:36 PM
CAIRO -- Saudi police have opened fire at a rally in the kingdom's east in an apparent escalation of efforts to stop planned protests.
Government officials have warned they will take strong action if activists take to the streets after increasing calls for large protests around the oil-rich kingdom to press for democratic reforms.
A witness in the eastern city of Qatif says gunfire and stun grenades were fired at several hundred protesters marching in the city streets Thursday. The witness, speaking on condition of anonymity because he feared government reprisal, said police in the area opened fire. The witness saw at least one protester injured.

You are surprised? Saudi Arabia (going by its name alone) is a family owned nation. Blood is thicker than liberty.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Richard Wiig · March 14, 2011

I note that the Islamofreakout sites fail to report continuing developments, stopping at the church-burning and the deaths in October 6th city.

It's not what you could call a substantial development. They can rebuild the church, but the same problems remain.

Here's a good thing in Lebanon - thousands protesting against Hezbollah - but it's still ineffectual in solving the problem. The problem will only begin to be solved when people start calling the problem by name.

http://www.france24.com/en/20110313-lebanese-opposition-rallies-against-hizbollah-hariri-beirut-mikati

anthony · March 14, 2011

I note that the Islamofreakout sites fail to report continuing developments, stopping at the church-burning and the deaths in October 6th city.
It's not what you could call a substantial development. They can rebuild the church, but the same problems remain.
Here's a good thing in Lebanon - thousands protesting against Hezbollah - but it's still ineffectual in solving the problem. The problem will only begin to be solved when people start calling the problem by name.
http://www.france24.com/en/20110313-lebanese-opposition-rallies-against-hizbollah-hariri-beirut-mikati

That name being 'Islamofascism', I take it?

That regime of Hezbollah in Lebanon with Syrian backing, is truly one of the most vicious.

But you must have noticed that the majority of people there, as in Egypt, Libya,etc., are the victims, not the supporters, of relatively fewer Fascist tyrants?

Are you never going to recognise the difference between Muslims, and Muslim Fascists?

Tony

william.scherk · March 14, 2011

I note that the Islamofreakout sites fail to report continuing developments, stopping at the church-burning and the deaths in October 6th city.
It's not what you could call a substantial development. They can rebuild the church, but the same problems remain.
Are you never going to recognise the difference between Muslims, and Muslim Fascists?

Richard is partially-right, regarding the Coptic/Muslim/state terror equation. I think it is incorrect to think that the Army rebuilding the torched church is not a substantial development.

The story in itself is remarkable -- Richard may know the details of this particular brief, and he may not. When has the Army ever taken the responsibility and expense to repair a church? What does the action suggest about state policy towards Coptic demands? What will the action augur in the short and medium turn, given the other movements and actions on the sectarian front? Should we not become familiar with the details before brushing the rebuilding aside?

A few things to consider: until this action, the rules governing church reconstruction and building/repair have been mired in procedural murk and opposition coming from the ruling NDP. In addition, the NDP is now seen itself as an encourager -- if not planner -- of sectarian attacks, as with the Alexandria church bombing. Beyond that, there are a number of agents from civil society, religious bodies, state organs and so on that have reacted to the most recent strife in ways that are distinct from the past -- starting with the sit-in at state TV, the words of Qaradawi, the Mufti, the Botherhood, the PM (who met with protesting Copts and pledged a number of actions). Is it an intriguing development, for example, that the Botherhood has donated a whack of money for the reconstruction? Is that unsubstantial? Is it worth remarking that Muslims in the village had already pledged to rebuild? How significant is the news that the Salafist mucky-mucks have spoken out against attacks (the Salafists are hardcore Islamic-purists who generally disdain the Copts and their struggles) -- urging justice for Copts and reading out an eight point 'reconciliation statement'? Is it noteworthy that Amr Khaled led prayers at the village mosque? Each of these developments are front-page news in Egyptian media, though the details remain generally unremarked in the West.

Where Richard is right is that problems remain. I would suggest that he and we keep up on the changes in Egypt, that we may better understand when something is unsubstantial, revelatory, encouraging, or direly predictive of doom. I hope I am wrong, but I think only doom-laden news twangs the heartstrings of the IslamoFreakout contingent. How many Freakout Folk bother to watch Khaled and his effect on the folks of Soul and beyond?

Richard Wiig · March 14, 2011

That name being Islam, Tony. That name being Islam. Islam teaches this behaviour. Not Islamofascism, or Islamism, or Nazism. That's the fact, no matter how much you all wriggle to evade it.

Richard Wiig · March 14, 2011

Call me cynical, but all the things that William lists can be explained in just a few words... because they all want something. William is being played, willingly.

caroljane · March 14, 2011

Call me cynical, but all the things that William lists can be explained in just a few words... because they all want something. William is being played, willingly.

And you're not?

Richard Wiig · March 14, 2011

That video is supposed to be somehow encouraging? What exactly is encouraging in it?

Richard Wiig · March 14, 2011

Call me cynical, but all the things that William lists can be explained in just a few words... because they all want something. William is being played, willingly.
And you're not?

I don't try to kid myself that Islam isn't Islam.

william.scherk · March 14, 2011

That video is supposed to be somehow encouraging? What exactly is encouraging in it?

Let's see . . . Amr Khaled, the most popular Islamic preacher in Egypt, makes a special trip to Soul. There to preach reconciliation, to rally Muslims and Copts together. He asks for a show of hands from the congregation -- who would vow no to sedition and differences?

What did they do, the crowd inside and outside the mosque? What did they vow?

Outside, he says, 'We stand here, Muslims, Copts, Army, Police and people' . . . and the crowd raises its hands against sectarianism, pledging peace.

Moreover, as an anti-Jihaditarian, Richard is no doubt at least partially aware of the collusion between the Mubarak regime and the Salafists -- no doubt partially aware of the Salafi influence over anti-Copt forces. So, what is encouraging about Salafis denouncing sectarian attacks and putting forward an eight-point declaration aimed at defusing tensions and reducing discrimination against Copts?

That video is supposed to be somehow encouraging?

Call me cynical, but all the things that William lists can be explained in just a few words...

Yeah. "All the things that William lists," what are they, actually? I invite Richard to go over the two previous round-ups of news I posted, giving it his full attention, that then come back and give us what he promises but does not deliver -- an explanation in just a few words.

because they all want something.

I can't tell who "they" are. Are they the folks quoted, reported on in the twenty-odd media reports I cited? I would like to see what Richard thinks about the race between ElBaradei and Moussa, what he thinks about a possible rejection of the constitutional amendments. Just a few words for the prosecutions, the front pages of Egyptian dailies, the warp and weft of events a-tumble.

I get the feeling that these few words will turn out to be Portents of Doom.

William is being played, willingly.

This is sloganeering, not discussion. Go get informed, Richard, come back, and then rant at length, in detail. Please put up a full telling of your Egypt Is Doomed story, at your leisure.

Edited March 14, 2011 by william.scherk

Richard Wiig · March 15, 2011

That video is supposed to be somehow encouraging? What exactly is encouraging in it?
Let's see . . . Amr Khaled, the most popular Islamic preacher in Egypt, makes a special trip to Soul. There to preach reconciliation, to rally Muslims and Copts together. He asks for a show of hands from the congregation -- who would vow no to sedition and differences?
What did they do, the crowd inside and outside the mosque? What did they vow?
Outside, he says, 'We stand here, Muslims, Copts, Army, Police and people' . . . and the crowd raises its hands against sectarianism, pledging peace.

Yep,that they did, but they did it on a huge amount of pious religiosity and commitment to their prophet, the very thing that's causing the problems in the first place. Amr Khaled is obviously a persuasive orator, but he's preaching to a highly religious audience who is open to the message of the "true Islam". They appear to me to be part of the pool from which supporters of the "true Islam" are recruited. One of the core messages of Islam is that Allah knows best while ye know not. You might think that pious religiosity is a strong foundation for peace between the Muslims and Copts, and for the rest of the non-muslim world for that matter, but I do not. I consider it to be very shaky ground.

Yeah. "All the things that William lists," what are they, actually?

I was refering solely to this incident.

I can't tell who "they" are.

The players chiming in over the Church attack.

Are they the folks quoted, reported on in the twenty-odd media reports I cited? I would like to see what Richard thinks about the race between ElBaradei and Moussa, what he thinks about a possible rejection of the constitutional amendments. Just a few words for the prosecutions, the front pages of Egyptian dailies, the warp and weft of events a-tumble.
I get the feeling that these few words will turn out to be Portents of Doom.

I don't think that Egypt is necessarily doomed, or that the global Jihad will succeed, or that the forces of good will not prevail. I certainly think doom is more likely though if people aren't crystal clear about what the threat is.

This is sloganeering, not discussion. Go get informed, Richard, come back, and then rant at length, in detail. Please put up a full telling of your Egypt Is Doomed story, at your leisure.

It's my opinion based on what I know about Islam, just as you seeing something encouraging in that video is your opinion.

william.scherk · March 15, 2011

Another small sign of the times.

Egypt dissolves hated state security agency

Egypt's interior minister on Tuesday dissolved the country's widely hated state security agency, which was accused of torture and other human rights abuses in the suppression of dissent against ousted President Hosni Mubarak's nearly 30-year rule.
The new interior minister, Maj. Gen. Mansour el-Essawy, a former Cairo security chief, said in a statement that a new agency in charge of keeping national security and combatting terrorism will be formed.
Dismantling the State Security Investigations agency was a major demand of the protest movement that led an 18-day uprising to oust Mubarak. Since he stepped down on Feb. 11, Egyptians have stormed the agency's main headquarters and other offices, seizing documents to keep them from being destroyed to hide evidence of human rights abuses.
Many protest leaders have said that despite the fall of Mubarak and his government, the agency remained active in protecting the old regime and trying to sabotage the democratic transition.
Islam Lotfi, a leading youth activist, called it an "excellent move" but one that should be followed by other steps to restore the Egyptian people's sense of trust and security.
Lotfi said dissolving the agency was just one of the demands of the protest movement.
"We want to see public trials for all those accused of torturing or abusing Egyptians and the Interior Ministry should compensate all those who suffered at the hands of this agency," he said. He added the Interior Ministry should ensure all state security documents are preserved.
Lotfi, who is a member of Egypt's most organized opposition political movement, the Muslim Brotherhood, said the state security agency has "invaded the life of every Egyptian" and it will take a lot of work to remove traces of it from Egyptian public life.
Visiting U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, meanwhile, was pressing Egypt's transitional leaders Tuesday to follow through on pledges for democratic reform and, in particular, to ensure respect for human rights.
The security agency being dismantled had a free hand by emergency laws under Mubarak to suppress dissent and was one of the most powerful symbols of his regime. State Security was notorious among Egyptians for its arrests — and abuse of activists — and also was involved in closely monitoring media and tracking and disrupting almost any political activities not condoned by Mubarak's ruling party.
Tuesday's move was reminiscent of Russian President Boris Yeltsin's order to dismantle the much-feared KGB after the 1991 fall of the Soviet Union, hoping to show that the decades when the secret police penetrated every facet of life had ended. The monolithic agency was broken up into several agencies, led by its main successor, the Federal Security Service.

william.scherk · March 15, 2011

The Muslim Dunderhood appears to have chosen the wrong fork in the road, urging a yes vote on the Egyptian constitutional amendments, while everyone and his dog is calling for rejection, with some polls registering a 60% No.

Brotherhood denies religious pressure on Constitution vote

Political parties call Friday protest against constitution amendments

Several political powers and parties are calling on Egyptians to stage protests on Friday to reject the proposed constitutional amendments which will be put to referendum on Saturday, and to urge the formulation of a new constitution.
The current Egyptian Constitution has expired with the collapse of the regime, they say, encouraging Egyptians to vote against the amendments.
The National Association for Change, founded by Mohamed ElBaradei, has issued a statement urging citizens to reject the amendments and calling on its members to organize rallies on Friday to announce their rejection of the amendments.
Ehab al-Khouli, a leading member of the liberal Ghad Party, said his party does not support the amendments and called for protests on Friday to demand a new constitution.
Hussein Abdel Razeq, a leading member of the leftist Tagammu Party, said his party is coordinating with other opposition parties to push for their rejection of the proposed amendments.
Mustafa al-Taweel, a leading member of the liberal Wafd Party, said his party rejects a patchwork constitution, adding that the party has urged its members to vote "No" in the referendum.
The Democratic Front Party also called for a “No” vote. Ibrahim Nawwar, media spokesperson for the party, advised against the rush to put the amendments to referendum, adding that he rejects the amendments of only some of the articles of the Constitution since this, he said, means reverting to the 1971 Constitution once again.
Mohamed Abul Ela, vice president of the Nasserist Party, said the party has instructed its secretariats around Egypt to vote against the amendments.

Even the Egyptian Pope says no . . .

Selene · March 20, 2011

Buckle up ... here we go!

Egyptians Voters Approve Constitutional Changes

"The Muslim Brotherhood and remnant elements of the National Democratic Party, which dominated Egyptian politics for decades, were the main supporters of the referendum. They said their position was to insure the swift return to civilian rule."

Richard Wiig · March 20, 2011

Well, I think the Copts need to buckle up. Compared to them you're going to have it pretty smooth.

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