Ellen Stuttle

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Posts posted by Ellen Stuttle

  1. 22 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:


    Would it change if he destroyed the vax cabal?

    Or would you prefer today's words and apology-seeking to tomorrow's reality without the problem?

    It's a serious question.


    Have you been consulting books on Delphic oracularism?


  2. 19 hours ago, Mark said:

    Trump’s December 2nd phone interview makes a total of six pro-vax speeches found so far. 

    These speeches persuaded some of his admirers to get vaxxed – and get their children vaxxed – who would not have done so otherwise.

    A transcript of his remarks about the vax, starting at 2:08, follows.  Trump is not too coherent in places; the transcript is verbatim:

    “[Interviewer asks about the covid deaths while Biden is president versus covid deaths when he was.  He doesn’t say deaths “with covid” or “of covid.”  And he seems to take for granted that unlike the Church, Medicine and State should be joined.]

    “Well, he’s done a terrible job, just like he did with the, uh, uh, H1N1, he’s done just a absolutely terrible job, uh, getting it out.  And getting people to take it.  I mean people just don’t want to take it.  And the vaccines have been— you know I have to be very proud of the vaccines.  We did it in less than nine months.  People said it was gonna take five years to 12 years and probably wouldn’t work. They working incredibly well.

    [I must interrupt.  The H1N1 was gotten out all right, and so many people died that it was quickly withdrawn.  And here is the point, the deaths were far fewer, as a rate, than under the covid vax yet the covid vax is not being withdrawn.  Apparently Trump, clueless and deluded, doesn’t know this.]

    “Some people don’t want to take ’em, that’s their freedom and that’s what we have to do.  But people don’t want to take ’em because they don’t trust Biden, they don’t trust the administration.  We had none of that.  Everybody was fighting to take  ’em and we were doing great, we were doing really great on distribution.

    “We also bought billions of dollars worth before we knew it was gonna be successful, which saved us one year.  So many things we did right, and what [speaking of the Biden administration] they’re doing is very sad when you look at what’s happening.  But [contra Biden] more people died during this year than last year by a very substantial margin.  And sadly this year is not up.

    [One interviewer asks why people wouldn’t trust the vax when it was made under Trump’s administration.]

    “Well, a couple of things.  Number one, they did a pause on Johnson & Johnson which really sent shocks through, over six people – that didn’t die by the way – but six people and for that, millions and millions of shots given and they did the pause with Johnson & Johnson, that was very bad, uh, and they just haven’t been able to sell it, people are not, they are not trusting this administration.

    “And if you remember when, during the debate I think she said and he said [mocking voice], Oh if it’s Trump I won’t take the vaccine, I won’t take the vaccine.  And then as soon as he got elected he tried to claim that he didn’t but he forgot that he got a shot, during my administration he got a shot.

    “But there was just a great distrust of what they were saying and what they were doing.  And I think that’s the problem and that’s why they’re trying to set up mandates and really hurting things with the economy, with the mandates, in addition to other things.”

    Trump did not answer the interviewer’s question, though his brief and inarticulate mention of the Johnson & Johnson affair hints at the safety issue.  It was six women with overt systemic blood clots, including in each case cerebral.  He is wrong that none of them died.  One died and one was hospitalized in critical condition.  The last may have been injured permanently, how about the others?  Trump pretends that all problems with the vax get recorded and pretends no one is ever really injured, when both pretenses are grossly false given the actual numbers.


    Gaack.  Trump would have to do some heavy apologizing to restore my opinion of his honesty after those remarks.  I think that there's no way he could still be so ignorant.  I've started to agree with you in viewing Trump as a second-choice candidate, better than a Democrat but not the person I'd want if I could have my preference.


  3. On 12/1/2021 at 5:53 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

    The FDA approvers didn't really know "the stuff wasn’t safe and shouldn’t be okayed even for emergency use." They knew they had not done all the normal testing.



    I suspect that there are folks at the FDA who are good enough at cellular biology not to have needed clinical trials in order to anticipate trouble.  I could anticipate trouble just from reading about the mechanism, and the FDA safety assessors are supposed to be experts.  Presumably, some of them really are experts.

    Regarding Trump and his role in getting the mRNA pseudo-vaccines on the market, my point is that I think that long term it's going to be harmful to his reputation for him to be claiming credit for whatever impetus he provided.  The stuff is a medical-practice-induced disaster.  This will become more and more obvious as time goes on.  I think that at least from prudence Trump would be wise to start bailing out.  Maybe he judges the timing differently and that's why he's holding back.  My impression, though, is that he still hasn’t caught up to reality on the issue.


  4. 4 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

    Leaving a whopper out there and then saying you don't want to discuss it does not make the whopper go away. It's still a whopper and it's wrong. Cognitively wrong. It's a misidentification. Like pointing to green and saying it is red.


    Mark can correct me if I'm wrong in interpreting what he meant by "anti-semitism" - note the hyphen.

    I think that what he was talking about is what Jeff Riggenbach called "Professional Jewishness."  It's a victim-status ploy like "woke."


  5. 20 minutes ago, Mark said:

    I edited the post to place "Trump seems to be saying" before the statement.  It should be OK now.



    Trump seems to be saying:  The election results were dishonest and corrupt in November like the vaccines are safe and effective today.

    I'd reverse it.

    Trump seems to be saying:  The vaccines are safe and effective today like the election results were dishonest and corrupt in November.


  6. About Robert Malone's connection to the mRNA "vaccines," what he contributed, in 1987, was showing that mRNA encased in a lipid nanoparticle could slip into cells in animal tissue.  It was a long way from that demonstration to developed "vaccines."


  7. 2 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:


    I can assure you readers didn't.

    How could they?

    Unless they knew the history, all they had were the words they were reading.

    And the words were pretty clear.

    I mean, words meaning what they say are the standard you guys are using on Trump, right?

    Is double standard now the new thing?



    I don’t understand what you mean.  Of course Mark and I know each other in the sense of being on the same discussion list, just as everyone else here knows each other in that sense.

    What did you think he meant, that he’d never heard of me before?  You've seen list exchanges between us.


  8. 12 hours ago, Peter said:

    I would also add, "What [Rand's] doctor recommends." I get the impression about a half dozen people who share on this platform would not listen to their doctor because it does not jibe with their politics / alt reading / etc. 

    My doctor no longer recommends that people get the shots.  He listened to me and learned some things he didn’t know.  Politics had no part in the discussion.


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  9. 51 minutes ago, Mark said:

    The election results were dishonest and corrupt in November like the vaccines are safe and effective today.

    Speaking of copy editing, the election results were dishonest and corrupt, but the vaccines weren’t and aren’t safe and effective.


  10. On 12/1/2021 at 2:19 PM, Mark said:

    MSK has to put his comment over on this thread, where it has no relevance at all, so he can pretend "Gotcha."

    I am an anti-semite. 

    For the context see the full discussion in the ARI Watch thread.  I believe Ellen knows exactly what I mean when I say it.


    Yes, I do know.  And I know Jews who say the same, with the same meaning.

    I also think that this thread isn’t the place for trying to explain the subtlety, and I don’t want to go into it on the other thread either.


    Regarding our knowing each other, I took you to mean that we've never met or had any contact with each other outside of internet fora.  We've rarely even exchanged private messages.  A brief exchange years ago when there was flap about you on OL.  Possibly a few times when I sent off-list copy editing corrections to ARI articles.  (I don’t remember if I sent any of those off-list or mentioned all of them on-list.)  And, in March or April of this year, a brief couple notes about volition, with side reference to Vienna.  (This was when, briefly, Larry and I thought we'd be able to go to Vienna this last May.)


  11. 14 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

    From observing your posts for years, I have seen you imagine the masses will come to believe your conclusions without anyone bothering to convince them--just win an argument and they will automatically believe.

    What you think you've seen isn’t there.


    14 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

    We tangled about his antisemitism before. He doesn't talk about this openly anymore. But the subtext is definitely there once you have seen it

    Likewise about Mark.  I argued with you, and with Barbara, once upon a time over whether Mark is antisemitic.  He's anti America being run to suit Israel.  It isn’t the same thing,

    I don’t want to argue the issue again.  I think that Mark doesn’t want arguing about it either.  I debated even mentioning it.  But silence might have seemed to be acquiescence.


  12. 13 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

    I don't think you or Mark could ever get elected to dog catcher of Podunk. Have you tried? Have you pulled off an election among normal people?

    Actually, yes, a number of times, although not to political positions.


  13. 11 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:


    This is exactly what I mean by a gotcha.

    When people said Trump told the truth, they were not referring to misfires and campaign rhetoric. They were referring to the press telling us that race riots were peaceful, that rigged trade overseas was "free trade" and so on. Trump would say the real deal on those things. Also, Trump was not woke. He liked winning and he said so. Things like that were the context.

    (Even in negotiations, Trump starts out with a false position. And the people who say he tells the truth knew it, know that and will always know that.)

    Reality-wise, try to elect anyone with your kind of gotcha.

    It won't work--ever.

    I know why. I don't think you do.

    It will elect bad guys, though. Lots of 'em. Like it has always done.

    So enjoy the "political" in that reality.

    After all, you can point to a gotcha as the world burns...



    This isn’t an issue of gotchas or of "misfires and campaign rhetoric."  It's an issue of people's lives and health, of children growing up damaged.  There are monsters behind all this who want the population weeded.  Every day those pseudo-vaccines are on the market and being jabbed into people is a day of more needless deaths and current damage and future damage set in motion.  This is not trivial brush-off stuff.  If Trump would come out and tell truth on this one, it would help so much toward ending the decimation.


  14. 13 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

    Yet you want to sabotage the election chances of someone who can fix this mess. I'm not worried because neither of you will be able to pull it off. But I argue because you are one who is worth arguing with. You earned it.

    I don’t agree with you that apologizing about his assistance in foisting UNsafe and ineffective in combating Covid new kind of poisons on the world would harm Trump's election chances.  Quite the contrary.  Many of his supporters aren’t happy with him on the vax issue.  He even (reportedly, I didn’t listen to it) got booed for his favorable comments at his own rally.  I know that I would feel better about voting for him if he'd say something indicating regret.  I know others who are basically pro-Trump who feel the same way.  I even think he'd garner support from Dems who think that the pseudo-vaccines are a terrible medical blunder.


    13 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

    you think the disaster happened because we was a patsy.

    You aren’t understanding what I thought.

    As you present the push for vaccines - going from what Navarro says - the FDA was going to play its usual slow-motion, long-drawn-out-while-collecting-pay-off procedure.

    This is a different view of what happened than I had prior to reading your post.

    What I thought was that the wheels had been well greased, the paying-off already accomplished, in advance, and that the pseudo-vaccines didn’t need to be developed.  They were ready to go.  (I said that this was what I thought in an old post, I don’t remember just when.)

    However, the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA approvers knew that the stuff wasn’t safe and shouldn’t be okayed even for emergency use.

    Thus Trump's desire to have the process go swiftly provided the eager profiteers with a convenient and prominent fall-guy.  They could put the blame on him while, really, his "push" was against zero resistance.

    Thus he was "patsy and tool."

    Your account via Navarro changes that picture.  It makes Trump's push look like an effective push, actually instrumental in getting the things on the market rapidly.  In which case he was being the dupe of evil people whom he was mistakenly trusting.

    I ordered the Navarro book but won’t have much time for looking at it until next week.

    I’m quite curious to see what documentation is provided.


  15. 1 hour ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

    I wasn't talking about apologizing to the establishment left or the Deep State.

    You sure do work up a lather.



    Added thought:

    In 2016, one of the approving remarks about Trump which I heard over and over was, "He tells the truth."

    Now I'm being lectured, when saying that I think that he should tell the truth about the pseudo-vaccines, that doing so (at least now) wouldn’t be…political.


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  16. 13 minutes ago, Dglgmut said:

    Their argument is that the unvaxxed are responsible for more transmissions, and therefore simply with the quantity of transmissions there are more chances for it to mutate. However, you have to be pretty stupid to believe the vaccine significantly reduces transmissions when you see high vaxx countries like Norway and Denmark having their highest case counts to date.





    Not only do the vaccines not lower the incidence of this disease, they tend to correlate with its increase. As we have seen above, a number of countries have experienced record-breaking surges right after achieving high inoculation rates.

    The data is from official statistics, which in many, maybe most, countries have overstated both case and death figures because of counting anything which gave a positive PCR. (At the same time, as Tony has pointed out, there are probably lots of mild cases which weren’t reported to health authorities.)

    Statistics about infectious disease incidence always involve guesswork, and the problem is greatly compounded with Covid, which has provided a bonanza for government power seekers.

    Nonetheless, given patterns everywhere, the strong indication is that the vaxxed might as well not be from any standpoint of protection against Covid.  Their susceptibility and case severity if infected might even be enhanced.



  17. On 11/24/2021 at 4:33 PM, Mark said:

    There was no good reason to put Ellen’s “need” in derogatory quotes.  Trump should retract his words because (1) they do incalculable damage to many of those who follow them, (2) they alienate supporters not suffering from Trump Worship Syndrome – considering the booing that’s a lot of them – and thus harm his chance for re-election.

    A suggestion instead of "Trump Worship Syndrome."

    Trump Bedazzlement Syndrome.

    Then we have matching obverse bookends:

    TDS and TBS.


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  18. On 11/24/2021 at 6:12 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

    as to the decision itself, I think I said what you said and I think I was explicit about it. 

    At least that's how I interpret "one of the biggest whoppers of all time." 

    Here’s how the progression went.

    I said that Trump had been a patsy and a tool re his "Warp Speed" push.

    You said that that was an incorrect analysis, then proceeded to cite Navarro's book, which evidently (going by your description) documents that Trump was a dupe in ways I wouldn’t have thought he’d be - such as actually trusting Anthony Fauci.


  19. 3 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

    Never, ever, ever, ever, ever apologize to the establishment left or the Deep State.

    I wasn't talking about apologizing to the establishment left or the Deep State.

    You sure do work up a lather.



  20. On 11/24/2021 at 4:33 PM, Mark said:

    Re public health, Fauci and “warp speed” – and those are very derogatory quotes – with billions of government money gone to rotten crooks.

    Worse than that.  Just adding to your comment.  I'm sure you know what I'm about to point out.

    The poison injections have killed, paralyzed, produced permanent heart weakening, and strokes, and miscarriages, and female reproductive disorders that might result in infertility, and tinnituses so horrible some sufferers have committed suicide to escape the torment, and kidney problems, and liver problems, and other disorders, and I'm betting that they will produce cancers and that they’re going to cause dysfunctions in children's growth processes.  They are probably the biggest medical-practice-induced disaster we've had to date.

    I think that out of decency Trump should by now be expressing heartfelt remorse for any degree of actual effectiveness his "Warp Speed" push had in getting the mRNA injections onto the market.  They should never have been approved.  There was enough evidence (withheld) from such clinical trials as were done to know that they were far too dangerous to be given emergency approval.

    Politically, I think that Trump's favorableness toward the pseudo-vaccines is going to be a detriment eventually if not immediately to whatever plans Trump has.  Morally, I think he’s going to start looking like ego defense is more important to him than people's lives and health if he doesn’t start showing awareness of what a disaster the pseudo-vaccines are.


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  21. On 11/22/2021 at 6:08 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:


    That's not an accurate account of what happened.


    I wonder if you realize that you've offered in Trump's defense that he was an even bigger dupe than I would have thought he'd be.

    Trusting Anthony Fauci.  I've wondered from the start why he gave Fauci so much say.  Didn’t he investigate Fauci's past?

    Putting Mike Pence in charge of the vaccine project.

    Not realizing that the medical authorities would withhold therapeutics.

    Not being aware of the extent of corruption.

    I plan to read both books you recommended.  I expect they’ll be informative about details, but not eye-openers.


    PS:  I think that Trump really needs to withdraw his favorable remarks about getting "vaxxed."  I expect that the large majority of his supporters will continue to be pro-Trump, although disappointed on that issue, even if he doesn’t, but I think that he's setting himself up for a blamestorm from non-supporters if he doesn’t.



    A current piece by Larry Johnson on Gateway Pundit.

    Please see the end of my post even if you skip the details.



    Just got some sad news about my great niece. She was compelled to get the Covid jab in order to stay employed. She was pregnant. Within a week of getting the jab she miscarried. Not a coincidence. The New...

    In this article Johnson talks about:

    Miscarriage rates:

    The New England Journal of Medicine reported in June that if a woman is vaccinated before the fetus passes the 20 week mark of gestation, there is an 80% chance of a miscarriage:


    Athlete deaths and heart problems:

    It is not just pregnant women in their first trimester who are at risk, look at what is happening to world class athletes. Sergio “Kun” Aguero, an Argentine who plays soccer for Manchester United, suddenly developed a heart condition after getting the jab:

    Kun is not alone. Look at the list of ten other unfortunates:

    UK death rates of vaxxed and unvaxxed:

    [my emphasis]
    A really disturbing report courtesy of Alex Berenson. Here’s the headline from a study in the United Kingdom–Vaccinated people 60 and younger are twice as likely to die as Unvaccinated people under 60. Berenson writes:

    I have checked the underlying dataset myself and this graph is correct. Vaccinated people under 60 are twice as likely to die as unvaccinated people. And overall deaths in Britain are running well above normal.

    I don’t know how to explain this other than vaccine-caused mortality.

    The basic data is available here, download the Excel file and see table 4:



    Johnson concludes - my emphasis:

    One of these days the Democrats will wake up and realize the vaccine is a loser. At that point, they will pivot and blame Donald Trump for the failed vaccine. Just watch.


    Trump meanwhile is setting himself up for the pivot and blame by his continuing not to acknowledge that he was used as a patsy and tool with his "Project Warp Speed."





    It is not just pregnant women in their first trimester who are at risk, look at what is happening to world class athletes. Sergio “Kun” Aguero, an Argentine who plays soccer for Manchester United, suddenly developed a heart condition after getting the jab:

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  23. 17 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:



    I started reading your latest lengthy lecture AT me.  I've gotten about halfway through and I'm simply laughing.

    I suspect you're not going to get near explaining whatever it was you meant.

    And, honestly, "guns blazing" at you?  Bizarre.

    Ah, well.