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  1. Today
  2. Brant Gaede

    Credit Where Due

    Carol, I was a Special Forces Aidman, a combat veteran of the Vietnam War. I've seen hundreds of dead bodies. Do you think a jejune moral/philosophical discussion about torture has much effect on me? There are good guys and bad guys in war. The baddest good guys eat the bad guys for lunch and go get second helpings so back home the ladies can vote Churchill out of office so they can get free medicine. I neither condone nor condemn torture per se. The context creates the morality. If one is capable of it it can be immoral not to do it. Guns per se are neither moral nor immoral. How they are used creates the morality. Automobiles are neither . . . --Brant
  3. Michael Stuart Kelly

    Prison Reform, Finally

    Dennis, That is my point. Except in Obama's case, the deal was for him to commute one while turning a blind eye when his elitist insiders incarcerated another 1,000 to make up for it. And don't forget the gravy--let them take the stuff of the newly incarcerated through civil forfeiture while they were at it. It's a good job if you can get it and become an insider... God, I don't know how these people sleep at night. These insiders are the modern version of slave-holders from centuries past. Same mentality and soul. Michael
  4. Brant Gaede

    Credit Where Due

    It is not a proper role--as opposed to example --for the United States government to morally inflict itself on the world. But Woodrow Wilson did just that turning the Great War into WWI. The proper role of a government is to protect the lives and property--tbe rights--of its citizens. The idea that socialized medicine is benign because it dispenses medicine and such is purblindedness to the bigger picture of what could and ought to have been from the context of freedom. Everything government is and does is an expression of force. Retaliatory force is its only justification. Socialism is the initiation of force--the violation of rights. --Brant
  5. Michael Stuart Kelly

    Credit Where Due

    Carol, It's when you care about the death of murderers/torturers and blank out their innocent victims--all in the service of a political agenda. I don't think you give two craps about the women, gays, etc., who are oppressed by Islamic states. You might give lip-service when called on it, but on your own, all those folks are a non-issue. My suggestion, if you want to get President Trump so badly, is to try to use an issue that does not make your own indifference to torture and murder so clear. Michael
  6. Michael Stuart Kelly

    Prison Reform, Finally

    Dennis, That made it worse. Political contributions, "tough on crime candidates" etc., have nothing to do with my point. The entire private prison system is an elitist scam irrespective of anything, including elections. That's my point. With a corollary that this elitist scam has decimated and made inner city black communities more vulnerable and more excessively violent than they already were, all at the same time. The elitist scam treats blacks like livestock. The elitist scam has managed to exist irrespective of who got elected. They sold it as capitalism and free market. so, to that extent, they needed free market people in power at the time. Tough on crime had nothing to do with it. But since then the politicians have not mattered for the scam to continue. The profits don't go to elect politicians. They ultimately go into the pockets of the elitist insiders after laundering. That's what the scam exists for (like all scams ). There's another point I did not cover, but I believe. Punishment and rehabilitation are not either-or. You can--and should--have both. But that's a different issue for another time--except for one aspect. Making them either-or and getting people riled up and polarized over this false assumption provides an excellent smokescreen to perpetuate the elitist scam. You're very intelligent and didn't get this from my words, so I must have been horrible at written expression in this post. I'll try to get better. Michael
  7. caroljane

    Credit Where Due

    Michael! What system of logic leads to the conclusion that disapproval of torture and murder in general and specifically , to whomever it happens, means approval of the torture of others ???? Not Ayn Rand's, surely. Not mine for sure.
  8. caroljane

    Credit Where Due

    The hyperbole virus has got you too Brant. It is , maybe,debatable that simply by existing, a State is a torturer. And socialistic state practices do affect everyone, But being able to afford pain medicine, because others as well as I pay taxes, is not a torturous effect, for example. Quite the reverse, trust me. And since there are states, none of them should be patted on the back by other states for deliberately and flagrantly torturing . Just. Should. Not.
  9. Michael Stuart Kelly

    Credit Where Due

    Carol, Using this logic, you apparently approve of state-approved torture and murder of women, gays, political enemies, people of the wrong religion, etc. That's what your man Khashoggi worked to implement in the world. Others who work to implement the same results--ones he use to work for--killed him. They killed him before he killed them. That's the long and short of it. And you want everyone to care. I don't. It's a Saudi issue, not a USA issue. And you apparently don't give a damn about the truly innocent female, gay, religious, etc. victims the Saudis (including with the participation of Khashoggi) wasted. Out of sight, out of mind, huh? From this angle, the bad guy's the victim. The innocent victims for real are merely stats and gossip, huh? Especially when the all consuming hatred issue is: Michael
  10. Michael Stuart Kelly

    The Story Wars of Hot Political Issues

    "Yeahbut. My editor insists on..." not giving a fuck about the reader and this being an education thread on how story relates to propaganda as a technique. I want to try to score political points to show how Orange Man Bad. Waaaah... With "my editor," all roads on all issues lead to Orange Man Bad... How's my impersonation through your real subtext? Michael
  11. william.scherk

    Prison Reform, Finally

    Further to my ignorance of American justice ... The parts of the 4D picture that I don't get or fully comprehend is whether or not this is a function of court-type (federal versus state trials) or law (federal versus state crimes/lawbook) or length of incarceration (proportionate to sentenced time to be served -- 'city jail' versus 'county jail' versus state prison versus federal prison). Since our lawyers have departed for The Lake, I expect I'll have to educate myself. In Canada, reform of the justice system starts at the top, cabinet level. Justice Minister Trudeau started off the modern rounds back in 1967, with massive changes to the Criminal Code. Each wave of reform has a small or large backlash, which usually settles into boredom. Gay marriage, abortion, marijuana. Yawn. Up here we have city jails/cells/remand centres, which hold a population generally going somewhere else, either to court the next morning or to trial if not bailed, or to testimony if already sentenced to prison. You don't get sentenced to sixty days in county or city jail here, though you might count 'served time' under remand or protective custody of some sort. There are provincial and federal penitentiaries but the difference between their populations is that the provincial jails only hold folks sentenced to terms of less than two years. If two years and a day, you go to federal hoosegow. Young offenders are the responsibility of each province. The unifying thing in Canada is a fiction of the Crown. It serves the same function as The State (as in State Attorney/District Attorney/Justice Department). All prisoners are, in a sense, kept at the pleasure of/under the authority of the Crown (which in this case is the institution, Queen Elizabeth here having zero authority). In BC prisons are called 'correctional centres.' Some detention centres have unique names and seem like they are 'city jails,' but they ain't. So the Saint John's Lockup in Newfoundland is actually one of "Her Majesty's Penitentiaries." The Vancouver City Jail (a remand centre) is now 'social housing.' Or, "bridge housing," as the poverty-industry calls it. Yes, we have Sheriffs! But they don't do any US-style sheriffing at all. There are a variety of weird courts that are 'local' solutions to recidivism/'over-incarceration,' which may be involved in smaller charges. In Vancouver there is a Community Court, where 'sentences' are given in a social-services sense: "You are condemned to rehabilitation in a clean and secure home, with addiction treatment and assistance getting your shit together so you don't steal bikes for oxycodone anymore. First stops Detox, TB&HIV treatment. Next!"
  12. Brant Gaede

    Credit Where Due

    The State is torture and the torturer. One way is through socialistic economic policy policies that affect everyone. Torture is grossly immoral and evil. --Brant
  13. Yesterday
  14. caroljane

    Credit Where Due

    Got me there, J. I have hardly any grip to get. Never could open JARS. But have taken a break from outside world, and have now been inside for two hours. Still trying to figure out if you approve of state-approved torture and murder of citizens without trial, etc. For any state whatsoever,since it is about broad moral principles we occasionally debate here, or at least used to in the past.
  15. 9thdoctor

    Prison Reform, Finally

    I asked if you were concerned that companies operating for-profit prisons make campaign contributions to the more "tough-on-crime" candidate. This ties in to your first numbered point, specifically when you wrote "On the government side, this con need laws and aggressive cops on the take to put as many people away as possible. When no crimes are committed, they need laws that will make crimes out of thin air." Grok now, water brother? There might be data available on who these companies direct campaign contributions to, and in what kind of volume. I seriously doubt they're even remotely as influential as say, the NRA. Clarification: when I wrote that "we'd argued about this some years ago" I meant there'd been a discussion on OL. But there hadn't, I'd taken part in a discussion on OO, where it was me vs. everyone else. FWIW, I haven't boned up on the latest reform proposal, but if it's simply a matter of preventing miscarriages of justice like these: http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/30/obama-commutes-sentences-of-111-more-fed then I'm all in.
  16. Jonathan

    Aristotle's wheel paradox

    There's nothing tortuous about it for the rest of us. It's actually really simple. No, it doesn't necessitate putting in a track. The track is already there. It's been there all along, all the way back to Aristotle's day. Your response is nonsense, and reveals that you don't grasp any aspect of the alleged "paradox." Ignorance is bliss. Stupid is easy. J
  17. anthony

    Aristotle's wheel paradox

    No probs. For trying to make "any sense of this" and the paradox, I took the easy task - I simply described 2 of the wheel's attributes which, I think, together make the *apparent* contradiction null and void, when understood. The other route is tortuous. It means imagining the inner wheel transferring from point A to B - but with a *certain amount* of skid and a *certain amount* of roll. Also, this necessitates putting in a track which it can slip/roll upon. My response is that by trying this method to answer the paradox, one tries to defeat the theory/identity of the wheel , and as for real-world demonstrations, applications and whatever - few that I see, outside of experimentation. I got off much easier... (That was a general remark, I didn't single out Darrell in any manner)
  18. william.scherk

    Donald Trump

    From the long, slender, manly fingers of Individual-1: Okay, but how can you prevent Cohen surrendering himself to prison next March? In other words, have you read any of the documentation? Your personal opinions are one thing, hard cold reality may be another ... I'm sure you'd like to get out ahead of coming attractions, but.
  19. william.scherk

    Trump humor

    Aspect theory ... meets angle of view. You are not the only one. The Senate has also voted to deny funding assisting Saudi prosecution of the war in Yemen: Defying Trump, US Senate votes to stop US support for Yemen war "You will never win a story war if you insist on facts in a row, Missy."
  20. Jonathan

    Credit Where Due

    Your brain is not functioning well today, dear. Maybe take a break from the outside world. You're too worked up with your hatred of Trump. Step away from it for a while. Cool off. Take some time to get a grip. J
  21. william.scherk

    Prison Reform, Finally

    I haven't had a gander at the reform legislation said to be up for a vote in the US Congress. As I understand the 'private' prisons situation in the US, these can also be styled "for-profit prisons." Here's a video from RT that suggests the 'for profit' prison industry favours the passage of the reform bill/s: Description: "Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has announced that he will allow a vote on criminal justice reform legislation. The “First Step Act” lessens mandatory minimum sentencing and gives judges more discretion in non-violent drug cases, but it only applies to federal prisoners. RT America’s Rachel Blevins joins Scottie Nell Hughes to explain why for-profit prison corporations support the legislation and what they stand to gain from it." I'll come up to speed with the legislation contents and implications, but thought to include a couple of stories by Shane Bauer. He's the fellow that went "undercover" as a journalist after having been hired as a guard in a Louisiana private facility. The True History of America's Private Prison Industry My four months as a private prison guard Here's a relatively harsh-fair look at the First Step Act and its levels of support in various constituencies: The Criminal-Justice Reform Bill Is Both Historic and Disappointing
  22. caroljane

    Credit Where Due

    Since becoming president, Trump has accomplished the highest toll of gun deaths the United States has ever seen! Just an offshoot of the booming economy, you might say, but he is responsible for that too --with the bonus that most of those dead civilian losers asked for it, probably. Well done. I love unintended consequences , don't you? They are so-- original and challenging.
  23. william.scherk

    The Story Wars of Hot Political Issues

    What did Maria Butina do in the suggested candidates-for-stories? On the one hand ... Yeahbut. My editor insists on details of the "prosecutorial abuse" of (presumably) Butina. And she also demands an ID for "the propagandists" -- by name. Next thing you know she'll be telling us there needs to be a narrative, not a fairy tail. I am tempted to tell her off: "Fact check by 'feels.'" I hold out for her reading the actual plead. Like, "hey bitch, here is what Butina agreed to. Spin that!" Don't let the editor get wind of this. The "'feeling' for facts" is a good way to get out of a dark tunnel or cave. Especially if there is abuse in there somewhere. Putting names and faces and actions to all the darkness is going to be the hard part for me and the LSG.
  24. william.scherk

    "In the matter of Q"

    MOAR. Mother of all ridiculous?
  25. Michael Stuart Kelly

    Aristotle's wheel paradox

    Tony, You know I love you. But I just can't make any sense of this. And I have no idea where you think Darrell inverted identity... It's all good, though... Michael
  26. Michael Stuart Kelly

    Aristotle's wheel paradox

    Tony, No you don't. Michael
  27. Michael Stuart Kelly

    Trump humor

    Jonathan, I would have used other words, but you saved me the effort. I was going to comment on that sentence. It's evident that Carol knows nothing about this case and nothing about President Trump's attitudes and actions relative to this case. Her comments here are a very good case study of how core story (ideology) works to induce people to replace fact with an opposite opinion and believe they are stating fact, i.e., to let their brains run on autopilot while feeding it through osmosis. Wait until she learns what NPC stands for... Michael
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