Impeachment thread corral


william.scherk

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No one knows at the moment how the impeachment process will end up, though OL members will generally have in memory the Nixon and Clinton impeachment efforts for use in comparing and contrasting.  At the present moment, nose-counting wonks have counted noses,  providing spreadsheets of current House members who have indicated they support an impeachment inquiry. There is enough to agree articles of impeachment at last count -- if the process gets that far (see also the Politico breakdown of impeachment-supporters).

I'll add in links to extant discussion in varied front-page threads and beef up a rough timeline [over the next couple of days]. 

The so-called  whistleblower's "whistleblow" has been allowed to emerge in slightly redacted form -- Dated August 12, 2019: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6430376-Whistleblower-Complaint.html

-- this is what is being examined in the House right now. 

Previously ...

I'll ask that folks who may join in commentary here keep the personal insults to a minimum, if possible. Refer to the OL Posting Guidelines, please.

Keys to understanding what may come down the pike is ... what has come down the pike already. In other words, a list of names of interest from roughly 2014 until now.  Ukraine is at the nexus of the foreign-policy muddle between the United States and Russia.

Names and entities to keep track and/or place on a timeline range from (presidents) Yanukovych, Poroschenko, Zelenskyy to prosecutors-general Yarema, Shokin, Sevruk, Lutsenko. 

For a reminder of what Ukrainian corruption looks like, the palatial estate of former president Yanukovych, who fled the country during the showdown known as "Euromaidan."  

yanukovychPalace.jpg

At the risk of alienating a few readers, I'll be referring to a few 'mistrusted' writers and outlets who have cobbled together various timelines and constellations of events. interpretations and spin.

Any timeline will be necessarily limited, but the simpler ones can be double-checked for factual, 'on the record' events.  There are a lot of factors to be accounted for, suggestions entertained and claims tested. 

The most expansive timelines will come after the first spate of tell-all books whose "pitches" will be landing on editors' desks this week.

An objectivist hierarchy of conceptual knowledge is more like a database than a list or timeline, maybe. This is kind of a first wrong stab at how various states could be tied to a index/timeline.

Open question:  how do you best organize 'what you know' or 'what is claimed' about the last five years of Ukrainian-USA-Russia-EU events?

          Foreign policy and corruption   Russian interests, actions, explanations
        Associated timeline of events      
Date Ukraine President Ukraine Prosecutor Person of interest Cases adjudicated, abandoned, avoided (in US and Ukraine Trump -- campaign actors / Ukraine policy Trump administration Ukraine policy  
    Cases of international significance.
Meetings, contact, employment, associated suspicions
       
        2012-2017 Manafort-Ukraine Manafort FARA    
               
               

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1 hour ago, Peter said:
1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

Did y'all read Taylor's statement?

No. What did I say?

Nothing pertinent to the testimony yet. On the other hand, what he said ... bit.ly/WTaylorStatement

Quote

Bear in mind that White House press secretary Grisham has included Taylor as among the 'radical unelected bureaucrats waging war on the constitution.'

White House Press Secretary: Those ‘Against’ Trump Deserve to Be Called ‘Human Scum’

“The people who are against him, and who have been against him, and have been working against him since the day they took office are just that.”

OXCC6LGSKVDE7OX32Q5TDWKM4E.jpg

Edited by william.scherk
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55 minutes ago, william.scherk said:

See http://bit.ly/impeachmentResolution  that the House of Representatives just passed.

William,

That's not an impeachment. Just an inquiry. And a half-assed inquiry at that. Just look at the rules.

The only ones who voted for it were Dems (including Pelosi herself). Not one Republican voted for it (three didn't vote, though). A couple of Dems voted against it.

I have a theory about what is going on behind the scenes with Pelosi. And, if I'm right, it's not what it looks like.

Pelosi is a political animal who has been in charge for many moons and is very, very, very good at what she does. She is way to cunning to fall into the obvious trap of staging what looks like an impeachment that can go nowhere except nowhere. So why is she spearheading this with such gusto right now?

Here is what I think. She loves her power and has no intention of relinquishing it. Her main power comes from deep-pocketed donors, not The People. Her power has been challenged recently by AOC and The Squad, who forced the rest of the party to much further left than the normal establishment ruling class wants to be. They are also forcing this impeachment thing. (One of them even wants to "impeach that motherfucker." :) )

How are they doing this? By fear. Fear of The People. Other Dems are afraid of being slimed by them right now, seeing how these newbies unseated their ruling class colleagues and the press loves them some David and Goliath stories (OK, OK... Abigail and Goliath stories :) ). So, quivering in their boots, the House ruling class Dems are going along. It's no fun being primaried.

Pelosi herself has openly said impeachment would be a disaster for Democrats at this time. Then suddenly she changed. Why?

Because it will be a disaster.

I have no doubt Pelosi has already touched base with her main money/power peeps and gotten their blessing for a particular outcome.

What outcome will that be? Well... guess who will take the blame for the disaster? AOC and The Squad, of course. Pelosi will be able to go around to her deep-pocketed donors and power-brokers and say her hands were tied, so she just went along and got it over with. But we can't let those young wackos have this much influence anymore. :) 

I think Pelosi wants this disaster to happen as soon as possible, too, so she can have time to field establishment candidates for the House in 2020, and have them extremely well-funded. She's smart enough to know that, barring something extremely offbeat like a heart attack, the presidency is pretty much lost at this point. But by doing what she is doing, even if the House gets lost to the Republicans next year, of those who will be around, guess what their political leanings will be? Maybe the one who funded them? Hmmmm?... And guess who they will keep in power leading them?

Well, it won't be Schiff or Nadler. Unfortunately, in this game of chess, it will be sorrowful (sniff sniff), but when things go kaboom, those two will be have to be sacrificed. Schiff, especially, is the face of the impeachment project. Besides, those two have taken up too much of the spotlight. I mean, for a power-player like Pelosi, that gets awfully irritating. Sorry pals. It's been sweet, but times change and [fill in the blank with a lot of platitudes].

So who's left with the time-tested political ability and money contacts to lead the Dems back to the Promised Land, to the control of the government?

Why, Aunt Nancy, of course.

:)

And if the Dems keep the House, even better for her.

No matter what happens, Pelosi will probably get extra perks from the Dem rich and powerful for eliminating those pesky far-left progressives by giving them the rope to hang themselves with. Her peeps will call her a genius.

In this game as the table is currently set, all viable outcomes benefit Pelosi.

Michael

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1 hour ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

I have a theory about what is going on behind the scenes with Pelosi. And, if I'm right, it's not what it looks like.

Oh, and there's this.

If the current Dem primary candidates burn themselves badly mouthing off about a Dom Quixote charge at an impeachment windmill in the House, guess what? They become impossible-to-beat-Trump candidates should any of them win the primary. And the money people will never stand for that. They want to spend their money if there is a chance at winning, otherwise, they will not take a shot.

So I wonder how they could get out of that dilemma, I wonder...

Could it be that there is someone who could possibly run against Trump who has name recognition, who is a seasoned political animal, who is left-center and a war-monger to boot to satisfy the Military Industrial Complex, who is leftie-savvy on social issues... who... who... who...?...

Ah hell, I'll just say it.

Doesn't a bogus impeachment attempt clear the ground real clean for Hillary Clinton to just waltz in and try to save the day?

Hmmmmmm?...

:) 

Let's ask Bill:

Bill Clinton Fuels Rumors Of A Hillary 2020 Run

:) 

Michael

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After trying everything else, impeachment is the only tangible power they have left. The Horowitz and Durham reports are coming soon and their necks will be in nooses, so they have to do something and impeachment on random, meaningless grounds is something (the only thing) they can do.

So I now think impeachment will be the vehicle of disclosure. I think the House will impeach, which forces a trial in the Senate which all the people will watch with great focus and anticipation.

The trial in the Senate will not be Traitor-controlled like the House, but Patriot-controlled. The House will impeach on thin, flimsy bullshit so there will not be much to discuss at trial. Until the IG report arrives. And then Durham’s criminal investigations into the FBI.

The trial will proceed and, day after day, while it is supposed to be Trump’s removal trial, and enough teasers will be presented to keep everyone hopeful and watching,  it will consist mostly of Senators talking about the coup attempt the recent House, Senate, FBI, CIA, State, Justice, etc. arrestees are guilty of.

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Who can ID this potential "human scum"?

Quote

Congressional Republicans should be careful what they ask for. Their defense of the president has addressed process, not proof. The proof is largely undisputed, except by the president himself. It consists of admissions, testimony and documents, which show that Trump sought to induce the government of Ukraine to become involved in the 2020 presidential election.

Specifically, Trump held up $391 million in American military hardware and financial aid to Ukraine – which is at war with Russia after the Russian seizure and continual occupation of what was until 2014 a Ukrainian province – until Ukrainian prosecutors commenced a criminal investigation of former Vice President Joe Biden and his son, Hunter.

That is a mouthful of facts to swallow in one bite, but the legal implications are straightforward and profound. Whether one agrees with federal law or not, it is a crime to solicit assistance for a federal campaign from a foreign government. As well, the crime of bribery consists of a government official refraining from performing a legal duty until a thing of value is delivered to him.

Trump admits he held up the $391 million. He admits he asked for a favor from the Ukrainian president. And he admits that the favor was to dig up dirt on Joe Biden and his son. He even gilded the lily by publicly asking the Chinese government to investigate Biden.

 

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1 hour ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:
2 hours ago, william.scherk said:
On 10/27/2019 at 9:35 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

I wonder how that impeachment thing of the House Democrats is coming?

See http://bit.ly/impeachmentResolution  that the House of Representatives just passed.

That's not an impeachment.

I think the most important aspect of the resolution is that it sets out the procedures for the coming public hearings.

On the other hand, Bill Mitchell had a remarkable video out two days ago:

 

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1 hour ago, Jon Letendre said:

The Horowitz and Durham reports are coming soon...

Jon,

How about the DOJ investigation into the impeachment shenanigans later?

:) 

I am halfway through The Plot Against the President: The True Story of How Congressman Devin Nunes Uncovered the Biggest Political Scandal in U.S. History by Lee Smith.

Of all these political books over the last 2 or 3 years, this one is the most in depth and the most damaging to the Deep State I have read (and I have read many of them). There are several revelations in it like Carter Page, back when everything started, offered in writing to sit down for interviews with the FBI to clear up the facts concerning a lot of wrong information in the press coming out about him, but Comey thought that was not interesting. So instead, he went about getting a FISA warrant to spy on him. :) 

Or Steele was mucking around with soccer mobs (especially at FIFA) before he jumped to the Trump stuff. 

Or Fusion GPS was smearing witnesses against powerful people in Latin American countries as it's bread and butter business before doing the Trump stuff.

And on and on and on.

I predict the same people who are currently putting out impeachment stuff are into some nasty shit and will get investigated once President Trump is reelected. And just for starters, I bet they will have to explain (as a hypothetical example) how they managed to accumulate $30 million in real estate and other assets on a salary of $100K or so yearly.

:)

And further, I predict President Trump will pull out all stops on nailing them under the law, especially after watching several go to jail from the Horowitz report and the Durham criminal investigation.

As they say, success breeds success. Add that to Trump does not shy away from taking kill shots when he gets attacked and this will get real entertaining. 

Michael

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47 minutes ago, william.scherk said:

On the other hand, Bill Mitchell had a remarkable video out two days ago:

William,

I'm too thick into this and suffered from the Curse of Knowledge. My remarks take as a starting point just about everything in that video. I should have mentioned the different points (like the subpoena verses letter stuff, etc.) to "set the table," so to speak, but Bill Mitchell did a very good job of it.

People like him, though, think Pelosi is doing this so she'll be able to use it as a talking point during the campaign. Almost everybody agrees she knows she is promoting a lost cause. And as Jon mentioned, she could be trying to distract from the upcoming law enforcement reports. 

My theory of Pelosi's power plays starts with all that already in place.

Michael

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1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

Who can ID this potential "human scum"?

William,

Who cares about anything Napolitano says? He's a sell-out.

I hope he got a lot of money because his reputation is going to shit.

Michael

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8 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

So I now think impeachment will be the vehicle of disclosure.

Jon,

Even better.

There's a great metaphor for the Dems re what we saw with today's House vote on impeachment procedure.

It's Al-Baghdadi running scared at the end of a dead-end tunnel with soldiers and dogs closing in, right before he blew himself up.

Today, the Dems showed everyone their suicide vest while taunting and posturing.

:)

Michael

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I don't like coming to your site. It is cumbersome and unneeded. I think many of us disagree with your views and do not wish to benefit those views. Post on the regular site, William. Peter

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

I don't like coming to your site.

While you are here ...

1 hour ago, Peter said:

I think many of us disagree with your views and do not wish to benefit those views. Post on the regular site, William.

Topic thread drift happens.  On the Veritas/Persuasion topic thread the boss asked why we were posting unrelated material.

Posting link-backs to the material helps your copy-pasted impeachment-related material reach readers who are interested in the subject material here at the blog. If you don't want to add materials here, no problem. 

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On 10/1/2019 at 3:36 PM, Jon Letendre said:

Filthy talk nonsense from traitor bag of shit Maxine.

EF0V1gAU0AAdg7R?format=jpg&name=small

 

Killery said that Bernie is a Russian asset.

Is Mad Max ine going to call her out for her filthy talk?

Bets?

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The zapping they added really helps make clear what Palpatine was doing today.

Unlimited Powerrrr!!

(Text TRUMP to 88022)

 

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On 10/31/2019 at 1:56 PM, Jon Letendre said:

After trying everything else, impeachment is the only tangible power they have left. The Horowitz and Durham reports are coming soon and their necks will be in nooses, so they have to do something and impeachment on random, meaningless grounds is something (the only thing) they can do.

So I now think impeachment will be the vehicle of disclosure. I think the House will impeach, which forces a trial in the Senate which all the people will watch with great focus and anticipation.

The trial in the Senate will not be Traitor-controlled like the House, but Patriot-controlled. The House will impeach on thin, flimsy bullshit so there will not be much to discuss at trial. Until the IG report arrives. And then Durham’s criminal investigations into the FBI.

The trial will proceed and, day after day, while it is supposed to be Trump’s removal trial, and enough teasers will be presented to keep everyone hopeful and watching,  it will consist mostly of Senators talking about the coup attempt the recent House, Senate, FBI, CIA, State, Justice, etc. arrestees are guilty of.

 

“Hypothetical” question.

This is going to get so fun ...

@SenTedCruz and @LindseyGrahamSC ask #PencilNeckSchiff if @BarackObama had evidence that @MittRomney’s son was paid $1 million a year by a corrupt Russian company would it be OK if he asked for him to be investigated.
 
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