Not saying it's true, William - but why could this not be a false flag op in Douma? Put it this way, if they could they would. I've never found any moral distinction between Assad, Iran and the "rebels", they are all cynically depraved - and Islamists have been known to put their citizens in the firing line.

17 hours ago, william.scherk said:

the Tomahawk has struck, perhaps. Syrian state media reports attacks from Lebanese airspace on a military airbase.  CNN: US denies Syrian state media reports of US missile attack on Homs air base

Israel is most likely the power that bombed the Syrian airbase. From a story in the Daily Beast:

Quote

It seems likely therefore that for the first time Israel chose not to pre-warn the Russian Ministry of Defense of its strike plans—sending a strong message about the increasing intensity of its concerns about the scale of Iran’s presence in Syria and Russia’s apparent failure to contain or limit it. Russian troops are stationed at T4 and its aircraft frequently conduct operations from its runways, making an unannounced Israeli strike even more of a bold move, and an escalatory development.

Two months ago, the world stood by and watched as Israel and Iran engaged in a brief series of intensifying tit-for-tat military engagements over the skies of Syria—in which the IRGC’s facility in T4 was again involved. In the space of several hours, an advanced Iranian drone and an Israeli F-16 fighter jet were shot down, and 12 Syrian and Iranian military facilities were damaged or destroyed.

Here is a bit from the State Department Twitter account, which features some statements from the President:

-- as is par for the course, commentary and claims from Syrian allies on the ground -- deny deny deny.  This RT story is particularly interesting, and gives grounds for the Red-Brown blob to dismiss the massacre as a complete hoax (which doesn't comport with the contravening "false flag" notion, but hey)

Quote

HomeWorld News

 

No trace of chemical weapons at alleged attack site in Douma – Russian military

Published time: 9 Apr, 2018 17:20Edited time: 9 Apr, 2018 17:57

Get short URL

A photo showing a child being washed after what the White Helmets and other anti-government groups in Syria claim was a chemical weapons attack in Douma, Eastern Ghouta, on April 7. The Russian military says the photos were staged. © Reuters

 

The Russian military has found no trace of chemical weapons use after searching parts of Syria’s Douma allegedly targeted by an “attack.” Photos of victims posted by the White Helmets are fake, Russia’s Defense Ministry said.

Experts in radiological, chemical and biological warfare, as well as medics, on Monday inspected the parts of the Eastern Ghouta city of Douma, where an alleged chemical attack supposedly took place on Saturday, the Russian Reconciliation Center for Syria said in a statement.

The specialists “found no traces of the use of chemical agents” after searching the sites, the statement said. The center’s medical specialists also visited a local hospital but found no patients that showed signs of chemical weapons poisoning. “All these facts show… that no chemical weapons were used in the town of Douma, as it was claimed by the White Helmets,” the statement said, referring to the controversial “civil defense” group that was among the first to report about the alleged attack.

“All the accusations brought by the White Helmets, as well as their photos… allegedly showing the victims of the chemical attack, are nothing more than a yet another piece of fake news and an attempt to disrupt the ceasefire,” the Reconciliation Center said.

READ MORE: Moscow calls ‘chemical attack’ in Douma ‘fake news,’ warns against Syrian intervention

DETAILS TO FOLLOW

5 hours ago, anthony said:

[W]hy could this not be a false flag op in Douma?

I'd have to enroll you in a lengthy seminar, Tony, to properly answer this.  To summarize or hang a couple of points  -- I believe Syria cheated in its declaration (of stock, mixing facilities, delivery systems -- which were subject to OPCW-supervised 'destruction' outside and in-country).  The OPCW-UN Joint Investigative Framework report on the 2017 Khan Sheikhoun massacre found the chemical 'fingerprints' of Syrian Sarin stocks/process in the attack. This means that the state retained either binary stocks of or the industrial capacity to produce Sarin, or both.

The other summary point would be in the form of a question back to you, partly rhetorical:  "How is Sarin made?**"  In other words, can a non-state actor build a secret Sarin industrial capacity that matches that of the Syrian state (or any other non-state actor, such as Aum Shinrikyo)?

The entailments of this question are many.

5 hours ago, anthony said:

if they could they would. I've never found any moral distinction between Assad, Iran and the "rebels", they are all cynically depraved - and Islamists have been known to put their citizens in the firing line.

"If they could" ... makes sense.  However, I would guard against the fallacy of the excluded middle. One can be thoroughly opposed to the Islamist militants who until yesterday were in control of the last remnants of 'rebel'-held territory in the capital region. But there is a civilian population that should not be so easily grouped into one or other pole of evil -- the civilians are double-victims.

If they could ... make Sarin ... then they would use it.  Sure.  If they could use it ... why would they not use it against their enemies in the IRGC, SAA?  The other dog that did not bark in a sense is "where are the defectors?" Meaning, how was a purported 'false flag' operation able to operate without a whistleblower?  And of course -- if the Al-Qaeda-offshoot forces in then-controlled Khan Sheikhoun masterminded a false-flag in that Sarin massacre, then how did that Sarin come to have the fingerprint of state stocks ...?

** -- my go-to guy for reasonably-technical but not overwhelmingly technical chemical weaponry  explanations and analysis is my London beer-drinking friend Dan Kaszeta, a person with knowledge and expertise in CBRN. Here is a very brief Sarin story including his views: Why it's a bad idea to make sarin gas in your kitchen (it includes Dan in conversation with the PRI reporter). See also the accessible but more technically deep: Examining the Turkish Sarin “Recipe.”

If "they" (the Syrian military-industrial complex) could make it ... then they would use it. Right?  Nope, at least not according to the Red-Brown blob, which I address in some several tweets over the years:

"Dread, hopelessness and horror."  The day of the massacre in Douma was the day Jaish al-Islam (the militant Islamists) agreed to Russian -supervised plans to evacuate from Douma (also agreed to release prisoners/hostages).  And the civilians will be loaded onto buses and transported to Idlib.  Earlier last week the Syrian dictator issued a decree that requires 'evacuated' people to prove their ownership of their homes or have the homes and land seized by the state.  The law gives them a month.

[Added: link to Dan Kaszeta's articles at Bellingcat (hated by the red-brown blob) and link to Bellingcat articles by key-word "Sarin."]

On 4/8/2018 at 1:18 PM, william.scherk said:

What doesn't seem to enter the deliberations of allied minds is that the government side would itself use terror tactics ...

Be that as it may, you will find that large segments of the so-called alternative media has already rubbished the notion of an Assad nerve agent attack as implausible in the extreme. Expect the Jimmy Dore party & RT-American hirees to run with this.

01:28
and then it turns out general mattis
01:33
admits there was no evidence Assad used
01:35
poison gas on his people lost in the
01:41
hyper politicized halle-loo surrounding
01:43
the Nunez memorandum and the steel
01:45
dossier was the striking statement by
01:47
Secretary of Defense James Madison at
01:49
the US has quote no evidence that the

01:51
Syrian government used the banned nerve
01:53
agent sarin against its own people
01:57
so that gets Turkish swept under the rug
01:59
that's the last one the first one
02:01
happened in 2013 that also was debunked
02:04
and proved to be a false flag operation

00:30
reports that all Assad gas civilians now
00:32
like before several times before they
00:36
verified that Assad had deployed some
00:38
sort of agent on people they claimed
00:40
that it had happened and it turned out
00:42
that it was actually the FSA in one case
00:45
they had I guess accidentally shelled a
00:47
nerve gas supply of some sort then it
00:50
was an accidental release on several
00:52
occasions they deployed chlorine gas it
00:54
wasn't  Assad that deployed them though
00:56
the UN had to come out with their part
00:58
months later after the US Congress shied
01:00
away from the concept of striking Assad

Report Of The OPFC Fact-Finding Mission In Syria Regarding An Alleged Incident In Khan Shaykhun, Syrian Arab Republic (April 2017)

The OPCW-UN Joint Investigative Framework report on the 2017 Khan Sheikhoun massacre (October 2017)

 

On 4/9/2018 at 11:21 AM, william.scherk said:

Israel is most likely the power that bombed the Syrian airbase [Tiyas/T4 in Homs province 2 nights ago].

-- there's some detail here that may be news to OLers:  Israel has whacked Syria a hundred times. Screenshot from an article at al-Araby, Good neighbours? Israel in Syria.

And to continue my line on nerve-agent attacks in Syria, an answer to the question why chemical  are more than usually horrifying weapons. Prohibited weapons ... 

From the International Committee of the Red Cross story, Effective Killer: Five things you need to know about chemical weapons.

Is the right word foreshadow or telegraph or portend? The US President seems to tip his hand with a tweet...  suggesting Russia should be aware of US resolve and superiority.  This blows away my expectations of no punitive aerial surgery on Syria. Missiles "will be coming, nice and new and 'smart.'"

Elsewhere, earlier ...

16 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

I don't think anyone really knows who did the chemical attack in Syria. [...]

Also, lots of people I respect are hollering their heads off about not going to another stupid war, potential false flag, etc. Obviously people closer to the fringe are doing this, people like Alex Jones, Jimmy Dore, etc. But mainstream people are also throwing their hat in the ring, people like Tucker Carlson, Sarah Palin, Laura Ingraham, Scott Adams, and so on.

Here is the US President announcing a military attack by US, French and British forces on the chemical warfare infrastructure of the Syrian state. This reality may take a while to settle in.  The early reports are of massive explosions in Damascus, including the base of Assad's 4th Division and the staging area for Iran's 'revolutionary guard.'  Where Israel had earlier bombed -- the suspected site of the 'research' and production centre will be craters and wreckage and smoke this time tomorrow. 

I don''t hold any mistaken opinions against Jon Letendre -- once you are captured cognitively by misinformation and suspicion, it can be difficult to shake it off and give full rational inquiry a second chance. We all can be wrong sometimes, even glaringly wrong. I did not expect a Western attack, and I feel a rising dread.  The dread may be partly explained by the unknown consequences of this wave of military action.

I think the President's plain words in his speech do put the lie to any belief that Trump is going after a hidden enemy or Cabal.  Your mileage may vary, though, depending on your views of Qanon ...

On 4/11/2018 at 12:56 PM, Jon Letendre said:

And Billyboy, your poster boy Schiff is going to kill himself right before being captured.

On 4/11/2018 at 1:29 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Don't worry about William. He still hasn't learned the difference between waging war and negotiating. 

Don't worry about Michael. He will figure it out ...

17 hours ago, william.scherk said:

I think the President's plain words in his speech do put the lie to any belief that Trump is going after a hidden enemy or Cabal.  Your mileage may vary, though, depending on your views of Qanon ...

I guess I got ahead of myself. Jan ''False Flagging" Brady will be pleased ... on Infowars, Alex and his stupidest cohost have laid down a new line.  This will require some digestion.

[EDIT:  the Periscope live broadcast is a long one. Here is the updated link to the broadcast, which also seems to have been uploaded at Youtube under the title "TRUMP LAUNCHES WAR ON SYRIA! POTENTIAL WW3! Russia Vows To Strike Back! ]

William,

If you are going to post an Alex Jones video, at least go for the money shot.

How about Alex Jones crying on camera about the US air strike in Syria?

See the short video (43 seconds) at the link below (The Hill):

Infowars' Alex Jones blasts Trump over airstrikes: 'He's crapping all over us'

Michael

We haven't wreaked enough havoc in the Middle East? - Iraq, Libya and now Syria?

What goes on in Syria is none of our business.  It's either Assad or Al Qaeda.

5 hours ago, Neil Parille said:

It's either Assad or Al Qaeda.

This could be posing a false dilemma, a false choice, a kind of fallacy of the excluded middle.  

15 hours ago, william.scherk said:

[EDIT:  the Periscope live broadcast is a long one. Here is the updated link to the broadcast, which also seems to have been uploaded at Youtube under the title "TRUMP LAUNCHES WAR ON SYRIA! POTENTIAL WW3! Russia Vows To Strike Back! ]

Alex Jones on Trump launching strikes in Syria... pic.twitter.com/FkPt3xnok4

— Andrew Peng (@TheAPJournalist) April 14, 2018

Alex Jones (continued): “Whelp, Trump’s now a fraud. Done” pic.twitter.com/OXkSoiarg6

— Andrew Peng (@TheAPJournalist) April 14, 2018

This only gets more bizarre, and I’m going to stop watching.

Alex Jones on Trump’s decision to approve strikes against Syria (continued): “He said Hillary’s the founder of Al-Qaeda. Well, you’re the butt boy of Al-Qaeda, Trump” pic.twitter.com/Dy08J1rwxF

— Andrew Peng (@TheAPJournalist) April 14, 2018

Video extracts via Andrew Peng of Byline.

Elsewhere I included an iframe of Pat Tilsman's 20 Douma Scenarios.

The file has been updated:

"Assad is Laughing - Mission Accomplished? #QAnon: "Trust POTOS""

Another wholesale capture of cognition. Nathan Stolpman's video on the Syria strikes, cued up to his most glib claims and unwarranted speculations ...

Nathan doesn't believe that Syria has chemical weapons ...

On 4/10/2018 at 2:23 PM, william.scherk said:

On 4/9/2018 at 11:21 AM, william.scherk said:

Israel is most likely the power that bombed the Syrian airbase [Tiyas/T4 in Homs province 2 nights ago].

-- there's some detail here that may be news to OLers:  Israel has whacked Syria a hundred times. Screenshot from an article at al-Araby, Good neighbours? Israel in Syria.

Preliminary reports from Syria suggest that the IDF has again struck hard, at Shayrat military base (from which the Khan Sheikhoun Sarin attack was launched), at Dumayr military base in the Damascus countryside -- and a possible hit on the T4 base which Israel has hit twice before.

As with all breaking news -- and especially Israel action in the skies over Syria -- initial reports may not be accurate. Israel almost-never comments publically on its air-raids. 

-- meanwhile,  the Russians and Syrians are preventing the OPCW team of investigators from visiting Douma.  Surprise, surprise!

Pat Tilsman continues to update his list of mutually-contradicting and/or stupid "theories" explaining the events which led to the UK/France/USA airborne surgery ... I've collected his tweets in an HTML file which I embed below.

Since Robert Fisk's awful reporting is accepted at face value by the Jan Bradys of OL, here's numbers 26, 27 and 28 ...

Douma Theory #26: Even though Russia previously claimed its military had found no evidence of an attack in Douma it now has proof of a "pre-planned false-flag attack by the UK security services, which could have also been aided by their allies in DC.” https://t.co/2GzvzprPIw pic.twitter.com/wnnRylNgsK

— (((Pat Hilsman))) (@PatrickHilsman) April 17, 2018

Douma Theory #27: Robert Fisk visited Douma w regime + a doctor who didn't witness attack said everyone "knows" it wasn't real. Curiously Swedish TV, the AP + CBS easily found chlorine witnesses on the same or similar trips. Good thread by @_RichardHall https://t.co/eeR7WHMDwa pic.twitter.com/vLCSIQnuQu

— (((Pat Hilsman))) (@PatrickHilsman) April 17, 2018

Douma Theory #28: Russian forces found a chemical lab in Douma(or another part of Ghouta depending who u ask) that was presumably used to poison people in an attack in which the Russians claim no people were poisoned.

https://t.co/gvtj0vxnMEhttps://t.co/Wo1pJlpu1S pic.twitter.com/Pp2qrsEWf0

— (((Pat Hilsman))) (@PatrickHilsman) April 17, 2018

Pat Tilsman's round-up of mutually-contradictory "theories" continues ...

Douma Theory #29: A medic who totally wasn't threatened by the government the way multiple other medic-witnesses have been, told Robert Fisk that 6 years in, garbage and dust finally teamed up to cause a mass casualty event https://t.co/gro5cG5ynjhttps://t.co/kkE1Iit8bM pic.twitter.com/gN00q04Jt7

— (((Pat Hilsman))) (@PatrickHilsman) April 17, 2018

Douma Theory #30: Local witnesses were forced by Jaysh al Islam to stage an attack 4 JAI benefit, even though people who reported on the attacks have denounced JAI as extremist + maintain Assad gassed peoplehttps://t.co/Bb7hYDIAe3https://t.co/4fFd2pwJRRhttps://t.co/qLjLWocmvm pic.twitter.com/Z0FGvYr7TX

— (((Pat Hilsman))) (@PatrickHilsman) April 17, 2018

Douma Theory #31: A "Cardiologist" claims #falseflag because the ECG in footage of medical staff in Douma is not properly attached, except that it is and he admits it, also he's "on vacation," also he thinks #metoo is overblown https://t.co/ByLTteH7k3https://t.co/JJT8XGfIVc pic.twitter.com/EMmILoWE4x

— (((Pat Hilsman))) (@PatrickHilsman) April 18, 2018

Most important to consider ... 

Putin has a message for the West: Don't corner Russia! 

From Syria: Did E. Ghouta Gas Reports cause Rebels to surrender en masse in Homs, Hama?

On 4/8/2018 at 1:18 PM, william.scherk said:

Many OLers -- lurkers, guests and members -- may have learned of a fresh massacre in Syria, a massacre using chemical weapons. By some accounts by people on the ground (in the Eastern Damascus city of Douma) the attack came from the sky, in two parts, the first being chlorine and the second being a nerve-agent such as Sarin.

The so-called Red-Brown alliance** of socialists and fascists has of course leapt in to rubbish any notion that the attack was carried out by the Syrian military. The key term is "false flag."  The alliance of apologists for the Baath regime has decided this was a provocation carried out by the armed Islamic group currently in control of Douma.  The key hinge of this kind of argument is, "If Assad is winning the fight against the last remnants of 'terrorists' in Douma, having won control of the other hold-outs from his rule, then why oh why would he commit war-crimes now?"

What doesn't seem to enter the deliberations of allied minds is that the government side would itself use terror tactics ...

Further to these thoughts, a pithy reminder from Juan Cole of what 'dark forces' were at work in this war of wars ... 

-- the article is brief and focused on the negotiated transfers of fighters and populations. (As usual, clicking the image takes you to the source).

For an explainer on how Syria's President decreed a new law dealing with the 'reorganization' of destroyed property: New Syrian land law raises red flags for rights groups, lawyers.

The OPCW team has apparently left Douma ... from Chemical Weapons Inspectors Finish Their Trip To Syria's Douma

Quote

[...]

As investigators waited in Damascus, people from Douma were brought to the capital to be interviewed.

Some 100 environmental samples were eventually collected, OPCW Director-General Ahmet Uzumcu told The Financial Times. He also hoped the OPCW could exhume the bodies of people who died so that experts could collect biomedical samples. It would be the first time that the organization exhumed remains, he said.

Now that much of the evidence has been collected, the OPCW would not say when it would release a report. "At this time, it is not possible to give a timeframe for when the Douma report will be issued to States Parties to the Chemical Weapons Convention," the organization said.

The inspectors will determine what substances were used in the suspected attack, but not who used them. That task falls outside of their mandate.
 

For alternatives, portents, questions from the unpersuaded:

On 4/16/2018 at 4:58 PM, william.scherk said:

As with all breaking news -- and especially Israel action in the skies over Syria -- initial reports may not be accurate. Israel almost-never comments publically on its air-raids. 

Here's an excellent opinion piece in The Forward, by Elizabeth Tsurkov -- Israel’s Airstrikes In Syria Were A Message

It's almost understandable why Alex Jones has his freak on about the recent Israel attacks on Iranian & Hezbollah positions in Syria, since the attacks were relatively massive, and since they were actually acknowledged this time by the Israeli state.

Excerpts:

Quote

Israel’s bombing campaign against dozens of Iranian, Hezbollah and Syrian Army targets across Syria last night was the most extensive Israeli operation in Syria in over 40 years. Through these strikes, Israel is signaling to Tehran that it will not accept Iranian entrenchment in Syria and attempting to compel the Assad regime to rein in Iran’s activities in the country.

Israel’s disproportionate response to the 20-rocket barrage that caused no damage, with over 50 strikes across western Syria yesterday, are intended to signal to Tehran Israel’s willingness and intelligence capability to thwart its goals in Syria. At the same time, Israel wished to demonstrate to Syrian president Bashar al-Assad the reputational and military cost he would pay for continuing to allow Iran’s entrenchment in his country.

[...]

Israel’s statements and actions are intended to guide the regime to accept a reduction of Iranian influence in Syria in exchange for Assad remaining in power and possibly even regaining rebel-held areas along the border fence on the Golan.

Notably, Russia appears to share Israeli interests at this stage and is using Israel’s strikes to compel Assad to tow its line and distance himself from Iran. The strikes across Syria last night happened only hours after a meeting between Netanyahu and Putin, Israel informed Russia about the details of the strikes in Syria ahead of time, and Russian air defense batteries stationed in Syria did not fire at the Israeli aircrafts. Israeli officials are reporting that Russia has adopted an “apathetic” stance regarding last night’s escalation.

 

This is an uncomfortable position for Assad: if he reduces Iranian influence in the country, and thus becomes more dependent on Russia, Moscow would find it easier to compel him to step down. On the other hand, continuing to allow Iran to entrench itself in Syria would lead him to a confrontation with Israel, which could destabilize his rule and possibly result in his overthrow and even death. Decreasing Iran’s clout in Syria would serve Russia’s long-term interests of stabilizing the Syrian state and increasing its influence in the ongoing process of shaping Syria’s post-war future.

Thus far, Assad has adroitly exploited the financial, military and diplomatic support of Tehran and Moscow to defeat Syria’s opposition in the battlefield, keep providing at least some services to the population under its control and most importantly, public sector salaries, and shield himself from any sanctions levied through the UN Security Council. Russia is displeased with some of Assad’s decisions, but it has not been willing to disengage from Syria and lose its influence over shaping Syria’s future. Assad called Russia’s bluff multiple times when Moscow threatened to end its military intervention in Syria and withdraw its air force from the country, apparently to compel Assad to act more in line with Russia’s wishes.

Since the start of Russia’s military intervention in Syria in September 2015, Israeli officials, including the Prime Minister, visited Moscow on multiple occasions in an effort to protect Israel’s interests in Syria, namely, preventing a permanent Iranian presence in Syria and in particular in southern Syria. Despite these intensive negotiations, Iran continued to establish permanent military bases, recruit Syrian locals and bring more sophisticated weaponry into Syria for deterrence against Israel and possible future attacks.

4 hours ago, william.scherk said:

It's almost understandable why Alex Jones has his freak on about the recent Israel attacks on Iranian & Hezbollah positions in Syria, since the attacks were relatively massive, and since they were actually acknowledged this time by the Israeli state.

Even more than acknowledging (and warning Iran and Hezbollah), Israel is putting out details:

IDF releases satellite images of the #Iran|ian-tied facilities targeted during latest strikes in #Syria pic.twitter.com/b4U70WY8Hz

— Michael A. Horowitz (@michaelh992) May 11, 2018

Back to Russia, Russia, Russia, guess what Jan?  The spokespeople for the Russian government deny yet again that there was anything Russian about the downing of the Air Malaysia flight over a conflict zone in eastern Ukraine ...

Deny!

Click-and-go snapshot of a sober report in the Guardian:

-- and from the Independent:

Quote

The Russian government has dismissed an investigation showing that separatist rebels downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 with a missile system from Russia as “biased and politically motivated”.

Maria Zakharova, a spokesperson for the foreign ministry in Moscow, claimed Russian officials had been prevented from playing a full role in the Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team’s (JIT) work.

“To arbitrarily designate a guilty party and dream up the desired results has become the norm for our Western colleagues,” she said.

“The investigation to this day continues to ignore incontestable evidence from the Russian side despite the fact that Russia is practically the only one sending reliable information to them.”

Sober, sobering reaction from the State Department bureau of deepest, widest state, followed by deep-bottomed Presidential silence in three, two, one ....

I am going to check the Always-A-False-Flag bureau of whoopee, Moon of Alabama, for what a beacon of the RebblesDiddit set may be peddling re the latest from the JIT.  

Sarin, Sarin, whose Sarin?

On 4/10/2018 at 10:02 AM, william.scherk said:

The OPCW-UN Joint Investigative Framework report on the 2017 Khan Sheikhoun massacre (October 2017)


Not that anyone cares about Russian goals ... except for the Secretary of Defense of the United States of America.

Mattis slams Russia, says Putin 'attempts to undermine America's moral authority'

Quote

 

Washington (CNN) Secretary of Defense James Mattis slammed Russia on Friday, saying Russian President Vladimir Putin "attempts to undermine America's moral authority" and "seeks to shatter NATO."

"He aims to diminish the appeal of the western democratic model and attempts to undermine America's moral authority, his actions are designed not to challenge our arms at this point but to undercut and compromise our belief in our ideals," Mattis said at a graduation ceremony for the US Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island.

Mattis also alluded to Moscow's military actions in Crimea and eastern Ukraine, saying Russia has "proven willing to use conventional and irregular power in violation of international norms."

"For the first time since World War II, Russia has been the nation that has redrawn international borders by force in Georgia and Ukraine while pursuing veto authority over their neighbors' diplomatic, economic and security decisions," he added.

 

My expectations for a Putin-Trump summit in a neutral third-country are fewer theatrics than with Kim's summit, and a clear instance of Trump doing what he intimated he would do during the campaign: initiate a real 're-set' with Russia, where her sins against the concept The West are set aside in the interest of  Apple Pie, Order, Values, and unfettered Motherland. 

I'd expect a de-escalation or de-confliction on issues where the Ship of Deep is slightly offset from the Will of the Emperor. For example, what the fuck, NATO? Stop being so aggressive. Maybe even a Crimea-Schmimea moment.  At the very least a kind of turning away from Adversary Talk to Xi-style Buddy Talk.

Russia could use a respite from being the whipping-boy of every Deep person, yes?

Now the Deep Russian goals may or may be different from Putin's goals, as his relationship to the Deep Fake is rather opaque, shall we say. Is he a crony-capital mafia state reformer, a chauvinist, a loather of Western moral slippage? Is he an exemplar of more-or-less-okay Illiberal Democracy, reflecting mixed-economy foundational values from an Objectivish point of view, and thus no worse than any other regime in the so-called West, the industrialized democracies? 

The worst I might say about Putin is that power has corrupted him and so his state reflects that corruption of power, to further corruption of authority. And to speak in his defense, a strong executive as emerged in Russia post-Yeltsin was constitutional. 

I figure I can guess what Putin will ask for and perhaps receive during extended face-to-face no other fucking losers at the table.  I don't know which options to consider if I were to guess what Trump wants from Russia.

What does Trump want from Putin at the summit, for a Win-Win like in Seoul?

Does anyone willing to speak got speculation or opinion on what Trump wants for and from Russia?