Jonathan Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Nerian, just talk to your doctor, your normal doctor. Please, ignore the paranoid advice of zealots who want to believe that their philosophy can cure you, and not only that, but that it's the only true cure. Fuck all that. Talk to your doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jts Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Jonathan said: Nerian, just talk to your doctor, your normal doctor. Please, ignore the paranoid advice of zealots who want to believe that their philosophy can cure you, and not only that, but that it's the only true cure. Fuck all that. Talk to your doctor. Damn good advice! Do not even think about going to a doctor whose patients get well and stay well. Much more logical to go to a doctor whose patients don't get well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Tell us how you plan to research and compare doctors' success rates. What with client privacy, confidentiality, and all of that, how would anyone go about following your dumb advice? You're philosophizing, posing, and talking out of your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 There hasn't been any suggestion that a single approach is right. Nerian should seek medical advice, and should have already, is assumed. Depression can't be answered in the long term only by zealots of the body or only by zealots of philosophy. This is a brain-mind disorder, individual to each person. But the former bunch who look for the quick fix, outside the full context of a mind, are a likely cause of opioid dependency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jts Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 15 minutes ago, Jonathan said: Tell us how you plan to research and compare doctors' success rates. What with client privacy, confidentiality, and all of that, how would anyone go about following your dumb advice? You're philosophizing, posing, and talking out of your ass. You can ask the doctors. Dr. Guthrie here in Edmonton told me that all his patients get worse, they don't get better. I conclude from his own statement that he is a quack. One of the nurses told me Dr. Guthrie is one of the better doctors. If that is true, then I'm not impressed by the other doctors. My experience with doctors taught me that most doctors at least in Edmonton are usually not interested in helping patients get better but instead want to help people live with a disease. This is called 'disease management' not 'disease reversal'. There are doctors who try to help people reverse diseases and there are success stories. It is usually not difficult to quickly figure out whether a doctor is into health or disease management. The health doctors are interested in life style and diet; the disease management doctors are not. The health doctors are interested in root causes; the disease management doctors are not good at root causes and make little or no effort to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 1 hour ago, jts said: 2 hours ago, Jonathan said: Tell us how you plan to research and compare doctors' success rates. What with client privacy, confidentiality, and all of that, how would anyone go about following your dumb advice? You're philosophizing, posing, and talking out of your ass. You can ask the doctors. Dr. Guthrie here in Edmonton told me that all his patients get worse, they don't get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 2 hours ago, jts said: You can ask the doctors. Dr. Guthrie here in Edmonton told me that all his patients get worse, they don't get better. I conclude from his own statement that he is a quack. One of the nurses told me Dr. Guthrie is one of the better doctors. If that is true, then I'm not impressed by the other doctors. My experience with doctors taught me that most doctors at least in Edmonton are usually not interested in helping patients get better but instead want to help people live with a disease. This is called 'disease management' not 'disease reversal'. There are doctors who try to help people reverse diseases and there are success stories. It is usually not difficult to quickly figure out whether a doctor is into health or disease management. The health doctors are interested in life style and diet; the disease management doctors are not. The health doctors are interested in root causes; the disease management doctors are not good at root causes and make little or no effort to find out. Blabbering out of your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jts Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 13 minutes ago, Jonathan said: Blabbering out of your ass. You tried to insinuate that is is not possible to check out a doctor. I said you can ask the doctor questions and get answers. William showed that you can get information about a doctor by doing a search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 So, you think that online opinions is a good way to do research on a doctor's abilities? You say that a doctor told you that all of his patients get worse and none get better, yet his nurses say he's the best, and people online have said that they've gotten much better under his care. So, we're supposed to believe your claim that a doctor told you something which sounds very hard to believe, and not what others have said? How do we decide which of these differing views is true? Again, you're just blabbering out of your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jts Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 29 minutes ago, Jonathan said: So, you think that online opinions is a good way to do research on a doctor's abilities? You say that a doctor told you that all of his patients get worse and none get better, yet his nurses say he's the best, and people online have said that they've gotten much better under his care. So, we're supposed to believe your claim that a doctor told you something which sounds very hard to believe, and not what others have said? How do we decide which of these differing views is true? Again, you're just blabbering out of your ass. My main point was you can ask the doctor how his patients do. This was in response to your rhetorical question how we are supposed to find out how his patients do. Broken bones will heal with any doctor. The nurse's evaluation of Dr. Guthrie probably was based on academic credentials. I don't go by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 So, you're expecting us to believe that you asked a doctor about his success rate, and he told you that his was zero, and it's not likely that you misunderstood and are misreporting what happened, and this method that you used was a good and reliable way of "researching" a doctor's merits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jts Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Imagine you have a disease, diabetes or whatever. Which do you prefer? A doctor who has a high success rate? Or a low success rate? Common sense. Why is this hard to understand? Then the question is how do you find out his success rate? Maybe he has a website. Maybe ask him. Whatever. If you ask him, maybe he will give you a straight answer, maybe not. Dr. John Mcdougall says t2 diabetes is 100% reversible. But Dr. Shelton rejected people who were on insulin more than 2 years because the ability to make insulin atrophies.. Fasting has a high success rate on high blood pressure. Loren says 100%. Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 7 hours ago, jts said: Imagine you have a disease, diabetes or whatever. Which do you prefer? A doctor who has a high success rate? Or a low success rate? Common sense. Why is this hard to understand? Then the question is how do you find out his success rate? Maybe he has a website. Maybe ask him. Whatever. If you ask him, maybe he will give you a straight answer, maybe not. Dr. John Mcdougall says t2 diabetes is 100% reversible. But Dr. Shelton rejected people who were on insulin more than 2 years because the ability to make insulin atrophies.. Fasting has a high success rate on high blood pressure. Loren says 100%. Etc. You may be right about type 2 diabetes. As for "success rate" and doctoring I doubt you know much outside your own experiences as a patient. The subject is much too complex for a mechanical reductioning. However, when it comes to a surgeon, that's the gold standard. --Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 On 1/30/2018 at 11:46 AM, jts said: Imagine you have a disease, diabetes or whatever. Which do you prefer? A doctor who has a high success rate? Or a low success rate? Common sense. Why is this hard to understand? Then the question is how do you find out his success rate? Maybe he has a website. Maybe ask him. Whatever. If you ask him, maybe he will give you a straight answer, maybe not. Yeah, so, in other words, not a very reliable or helpful method of "research." As I said, talking out of your ass. On 1/30/2018 at 11:46 AM, jts said: Dr. John Mcdougall says t2 diabetes is 100% reversible. But Dr. Shelton rejected people who were on insulin more than 2 years because the ability to make insulin atrophies.. Fasting has a high success rate on high blood pressure. Loren says 100%. Etc. Ah, now I see. You're the type of person who falls for quackery, aren't you? You can't tell the difference between legitimate health care and kookery, right? And let me guess, in a state of bug-eyed zealotry, you confronted Dr. Guthrie with a sermon/grilling, he recognized your kookburgery and gave a fittingly sarcastic reply, which you chose to take as proof of his incompetence and of the superiority of whatever quackery that you passionately believe in? Does that about sum it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jts Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 56 minutes ago, Jonathan said: Ah, now I see. You're the type of person who falls for quackery, aren't you? You can't tell the difference between legitimate health care and kookery, right? And let me guess, in a state of bug-eyed zealotry, you confronted Dr. Guthrie with a sermon/grilling, he recognized your kookburgery and gave a fittingly sarcastic reply, which you chose to take as proof of his incompetence and of the superiority of whatever quackery that you passionately believe in? Does that about sum it up? I did not ask him. He told me his patients all get worse and don't get better by way of telling me that their is no hope for me. Question: How do you tell the difference between legit health care and kookery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jts Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Jonathan said: Yeah, so, in other words, not a very reliable or helpful method of "research." As I said, talking out of your ass. It is usually not hard to get clues about what a doctor offers. Usually a doctor shows no interest in reversing a disease, only diagnosing it and managing it. That is a clue. If a doctor knows nothing about fasting and thinks fasting is starving, that is a clue. If a doctor disagrees with autolysis, that is a clue. If a doctor does not explain things, that is a clue. If a doctor does not expect me to be a participant in my recovery, that is a clue. If a doctor works in a hospital that is not about reversing disease, that is a clue. If a doctor says "we are not good at causes", that is a clue. If a doctor does not give a straight answer about success rate, that is a clue. If a doctor says "helping people get well is not my job" (as Dr. Guthrie said), that is a clue. If I refuse all their drugs and then they don't know what to do , that is a clue. They did so many blood tests on me that I figured for sure they would find something wrong with my blood. Then they told me I passed all their blood tests. I passed a bunch of other tests too. They did not have a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerian Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 Well they suggested to see a psychologist. I dunno how talking to someone is gonna make me enjoy life, but I guess they want me to do that before they drug me up. I'm pretty much ready to be a zombie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I used to be a crack cocaine zombie and I didn't need any doctor for that. Quipping aside, professional help is probably a good idea. So is common sense. And so is persisting in the quest for meaning. Depression's a bitch. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 13 hours ago, jts said: It is usually not hard to get clues about what a doctor offers. Usually a doctor shows no interest in reversing a disease, only diagnosing it and managing it. That is a clue. If a doctor knows nothing about fasting and thinks fasting is starving, that is a clue. If a doctor disagrees with autolysis, that is a clue. If a doctor does not explain things, that is a clue. If a doctor does not expect me to be a participant in my recovery, that is a clue. If a doctor works in a hospital that is not about reversing disease, that is a clue. If a doctor says "we are not good at causes", that is a clue. If a doctor does not give a straight answer about success rate, that is a clue. If a doctor says "helping people get well is not my job" (as Dr. Guthrie said), that is a clue. If I refuse all their drugs and then they don't know what to do , that is a clue. They did so many blood tests on me that I figured for sure they would find something wrong with my blood. Then they told me I passed all their blood tests. I passed a bunch of other tests too. They did not have a clue. Well, I wish you the best with your issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 On 1/31/2018 at 4:44 PM, Nerian said: Well they suggested to see a psychologist. I dunno how talking to someone is gonna make me enjoy life, but I guess they want me to do that before they drug me up. I'm pretty much ready to be a zombie. You might read Nathaniel Branden's The Six Pillars of Self Esteem and use his sentence completion technique on yourself as delineated therein. --Brant regardless, good luck and get some good premises, the most important being how special your own life is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerian Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 On 2/6/2018 at 1:18 PM, Brant Gaede said: You might read Nathaniel Branden's The Six Pillars of Self Esteem and use his sentence completion technique on yourself as delineated therein. --Brant regardless, good luck and get some good premises, the most important being how special your own life is Honestly, I don't think I have good bad premises. It doesn't matter how intellectually you agree that your life is your standard of value, it doesn't make the first hand experience of living it actually feel worth any value. Edit: I meant to write, "Honestly, I don't think I have bad premises." Sorry. That really changes the meaning lol. During writing it I edited the sentence and didn't fix the end. For future readers, I'll note that at time of editing, there were only two responses: the two responses were by Anthony and Wolf DeVoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 5 hours ago, Nerian said: Honestly, I don't think I have good premises. It doesn't matter how intellectually you agree that your life is your standard of value, it doesn't make the first hand experience of living it actually feel worth any value. Self-referencing, subjective (and an impossibly tall order) - One's life is *not* one's standard of value. AR: "Man's life is the standard of value..." Not the individual's life, you notice: "Man", the abstract. Free yourself from this extra load, of trying to be your/anyone's "standard" of value. Without 'man', nobody to value, create value or be of value; no life, no possible value. Rather, one's life is instead one's ~ultimate~ value. This is what you show is at stake, and more than enough to be concerned about. Finding value in oneself isn't automatic, it needs strong attention, thought, self-honesty and application. It's not work, as such, you could find it all a great pleasure. Taking life-value for granted, just going through the paces like you may believe many ~appear~ to do, feels the easier option - for a little while. But doing so will always catch up with one and expose one to one's buried fears, apathy and anxiety. I've been rereading parts of NB's Honoring the Self, and felt some is especially germane to what you have described. Maybe not so relevant, in the chapter Motivation by Fear, he writes about "defense values", the false forms of values which a lot of people (barely) live by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf DeVoon Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Hmm. I considered what Anthony said above, and I think rather that the human condition is to play the cards you were dealt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerian Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 2 hours ago, anthony said: Self-referencing, subjective (and an impossibly tall order) - One's life is *not* one's standard of value. AR: "Man's life is the standard of value..." Not the individual's life, you notice: "Man", the abstract. Free yourself from this extra load, of trying to be your/anyone's "standard" of value. Without 'man', nobody to value, create value or be of value; no life, no possible value. Rather, one's life is instead one's ~ultimate~ value. This is what you show is at stake, and more than enough to be concerned about. Finding value in oneself isn't automatic, it needs strong attention, thought, self-honesty and application. It's not work, as such, you could find it all a great pleasure. Taking life-value for granted, just going through the paces like you may believe many ~appear~ to do, feels the easier option - for a little while. But doing so will always catch up with one and expose one to one's buried fears, apathy and anxiety. I've been rereading parts of NB's Honoring the Self, and felt some is especially germane to what you have described. Maybe not so relevant, in the chapter Motivation by Fear, he writes about "defense values", the false forms of values which a lot of people (barely) live by. I'm not sure how any of this relates to my problem of not finding life at all worth living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Nerian said: I'm not sure how any of this relates to my problem of not finding life at all worth living. Think about it. If you haven't picked up on value (in yourself, in life) being central to "not finding life at all worth living", you need to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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