No Subconscious

[KorbenDallas]

31 minutes ago, regi said:

Of course not. Rand is the only authority on Rand, and I certainly don't mind quotes by her to illustrate what she wrote. I don't really object at all, I just do not agree something is true just because Rand said it. I don't question any of your quotes, I was only pointing out that she sometimes says something in one place that contradicts what she says in another place.

Randy

Yes, I think we can agree then, that quoting Rand directly to illustrate what she wrote can be beneficial.

6 hours ago, regi said:

In the appendix of ITOE Rand explains that words are the perceptual part of concepts, the means by which we are conscious of concepts. There is no such thing as "conceptual" consciousness.  I'll find it if you insist.

I looked this up, what you are referencing is in the ITOE Appendix under The Role of Words, Words and Concepts.  But why do you say "There is no such thing as "conceptual" consciousness"?  Rand definitely did not say that in that section.

[KorbenDallas]

59 minutes ago, regi said:

You quote Rand like a Christian quotes the Bible. If Rand says it, it must be true. [...]

If you accept Rand as an authority, that is fine with me.

By the way, I judge and think about what Rand says, so I don't accept her as authority, but I find she is right about a lot of things.

[regi]

16 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

Common nouns are all concepts and perception is consciousness without words. (This last may be garbage; I just made it up as I "typed" it.)

I don't know who your last comment was to, but this is better than you think. Common nouns are all concepts (at least symbols for them) and perception is conciousness, and words are not required for consciousness, but there would be no words if we were not conscious of them.

You underestimate yourself.

Randy

[regi]

9 minutes ago, KorbenDallas said:

By the way, I judge and think about what Rand says, so I don't accept her as authority, but I find she is right about a lot of things.

Me too. Especially in ethics and individualism.

[Brant Gaede]

6 minutes ago, regi said:

Me too. Especially in ethics and individualism.

The Fountainhead was where I thought she maxed out on individualism and Atlas Shrugged on ethics.

--Brant

there was no John Galt for Howard Roark

[regi]

14 minutes ago, KorbenDallas said:

I looked this up, what you are referencing is in the ITOE Appendix under The Role of Words, Words and Concepts.  But why do you say "There is no such thing as "conceptual" consciousness"?  Rand definitely did not say that in that section.

No, she did not. What she said was that words are the "perceptual" part of a concept, the means by which we perceive them, that is, the means by which we are conscious of them. If there were a way to be conscious of concepts without perceiveable words, why would the words be needed?

She definitely uses the phrase, in other places, "conceptual consciousness." If she means by that, "perception of concepts by means of words," I would accept that, but she never makes that explanation. If she really believed there was another kind of consciousness that is not perception (which I doubt) she never describes it, it's nature, or how it works.

I really appreciate your diligence in this discussion. I'm glad to answer your questions because they are obviously sincere, but I'm not trying to convince you. Only explaining why I have my view about what Rand meant.

Randy