Sex addiction?

[Jesly]

Can anyone help me to understand if my husband is a sex addict?

I recently found that my partner is addicted to sex and porn very much. He was able to go a couple of weeks without looking at porn videos when we moved together and began our relationship. Recently the problem got worse that he looks so frustrated without watching it every day. Is he addicted to porn? I want to live a healthy and sustainable life both physically and mentally. One of my friends suggested me to get him addiction therapy from any clinic in Calgary. Can anyone just list the main symptoms of a sex addict?

If anyone experienced it, please help me to have some idea on it. Thank you in advance.

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Jesly,

Hi.

As a former addict and person who has loved addicts, I feel your pain. 

Porn addiction is real and it is a booming problem right now because of the easy access from the Internet. It's also muddled to death by warring religions, political agendas, treatment services (some of which are good and some of which are cons), etc.

To that point, a warning. Be careful with all the experts floating around. Everyone is an expert about this kind of stuff when you hear them talk (and man, can they talk), but, in my experience, nobody knows jack.  

But on to the problem. Basically, this is a behavior addiction as opposed to substance addiction, but that's a distinction without much of a difference. Don't be fooled by the word "behavior." Porn addiction causes real physical imbalances and malfunctions in the brain's reward centers. Dopamine, serotonin, cortisol, etc. exist, they have specific natures, and they are physical. Porn, just like other addictive things, acts on them.

I could give you a lot of technical stuff if you are interested, but there is one person who can do it 1,000 times better than me if you have the chops to go through it. The following Great Courses course by Dr. Thad Polk is one of the best explanations of what goes on in the brains of addicts I have come across. It is quite technical (boringly technical although Dr. Polk is not boring), but, man, does it dispel doubts and cut through the BS from all the different warring agendas you will encounter. Here's the link:

The Addictive Brain (for purchase). That will set you back $170 to $200 for the videos. I do not recommend the audio version of this course because the graphics really clarify a lot for lay-people.

You can get this a lot cheaper, though, by signing up to Great Courses Plus. For $20.00 a month, you can watch it online, then cancel the monthly plan (or keep it if you want to watch the other courses--which is what I do ). 

That will convince you that porn addiction is a real problem, not just BS your husband is saying to cover up his behavior. It will also convince him if he is in denial that this is a physical, not just a moral problem--or worse, something he can handle at will. (Addiction has several aspects, physical, emotional, moral, etc.)

I start here because I believe this is huge, probably the most important step in dealing with addiction. You must identify the problem correctly before dealing with it. An opinion is not a fact and you will find a plethora of opinions right now. In fact, it might seem like all you can find are opinions. So getting solid facts, like with Dr. Polk's lectures, is a great first step. Also, correct identification goes a long way in alleviating the shame that generally accompanies addiction. Your husband will be able to see what he does control and what is not his fault.

As to treatment, I don't know much about the specifics of porn addiction, especially as it relates to a relationship where sex is a part of it. I do know support groups are great (as a former addict in booze and drugs, I speak from experience--I would not be here without having gone through them) and other traditional means.

The most important thing to realize, though, is that you do not erase neural pathways and networks. Instead, you have to make new neural pathways and actively stick to those while the old ones atrophy (like all unused organic things do). In other words, you do not eliminate the cravings. You merely replace them with better healthier stuff. 

This could take the form of, say, dancing (if your husband likes to dance). Every time the porn craving comes, your husband could turn on music and dance a little. I suggest this because it's physical and mental, but chopping wood or lifting weights or wrestling grizzly bears would work, too.  After a while, the neurochemicals will dissipate and the craving will go away. Until the next time. Over time, the cravings get less and less. 

There are several replacements like that and they generally work if there is a real desire to escape from the addiction. In fact, every addiction I have gotten out of was replaced by better things, not defeated. 

On another point, if your feelings are hurt because you feel like this problem is a form of him rejecting you (and in your shoes, that is exactly what I would feel), I suggest talking to addiction support people, yourself. Believe me, if you love your husband and want to see him through this, it will help. It's a truism, but it's true. When one person of a couple is an addict, both have an addiction problem.

Of course, you can always walk away. I am not suggesting this, but be aware that it is an option--one that is right for some people. Ultimately, you own your life so you decide your values. Is he worth it to you? Then fight it through. This can be cured if he's willing. Is he not worth it? Well...

I hope this helps and gives you some hope.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

This doesn't seem kosher. There's no context for this first posting by Jesly--that is, she came in here without one.

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Brant,

I agree.

However, this is an addiction section and even if she (if this person is a she) does not have a real problem, the problem she described does exist. I suspect there will be some lurkers who feel trapped by this problem and too ashamed to talk about it in public. So, believe me, they will get value out of my answer.

I have been helped by other people--strangers--who were there for me when I needed them. And man, did I bullshit my ass off back then  . But they knew it and it didn't matter. The important thing is it worked. Here I am, not dead, not in jail. With a wonderful family, wonderful friends, studying hard, working hard on an important project I love, in short, happy. I know for a fact that every person who helped me would be pleased beyond measure to know that even though it's not important to know it.

So I'm here paying it forward. I don't care if the OP is bogus or real. Someone is bound to stumble across this thread at just the right moment in their lives. If I can help them and send them off into the future of their existence just a little bit healthier and little bit saner and, maybe, with a little hope, that would please me beyond measure. If I never learn about it, that's cool, too.

This form is not very Objectivish, but then again, addiction isn't either. I'm this way and that's just the way it is.  

Michael

[BTDT1980]

Hi Jesly, For a rational approach to your husband’s addiction or if you are not sure he's addicted, try this book, “The Most Personal Addiction,” You can find the .pdf on the Internet. Good luck.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I just had an interesting thought.

Wouldn't it be something if Jesly and BTDT1980 were (or represented) the same person? As of right now, both have only one post on OL. One has a problem not discussed by others here. The other mentions the wide end of a sales funnel for the solution.

Or maybe I'm just imagining things...

Michael

[BTDT1980]

Look at your log files. Check the IP addresses.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, BTDT1980 said:

Look at your log files. Check the IP addresses.

BTDT1980,

OK, you asked for it.

You want to treat this serious problem like a pissing contest about black hat marketing, scamming and proxies?

Let's do it.

I've looked around the Internet and the author of the book you recommended, Joe Zychik, is treated like a crank. If that's you, and I'm almost sure it is, that must sting.

What do the sessions cost? $200 a pop? That's what I read at one place.

Look at this beauty from Reddit: Thoughts on "The Most Personal Addiction"?

From a response by a poster named filmdude:

Quote

I read his book when I was new to recovery about a year ago. I spent the past year relapsing periodically and gaining short term sobriety periodically. I never felt like I had control and desperately wanted to control this thing on my own using Joe's method. Here's the thing I realized after a year in recovery.

This book is an absolute scam.

Joe never even went to college and has very little understanding of how addiction works. His comments about 12 steps convinced me that this type of group work was toxic and would never help me. After 2 months in an SAA group I now realize that almost every single thing that Joe says about 12 steps is either misleading or a flat out lie.

Here are just a couple of examples:

"The twelve steps require public confession to overcome your addiction."

I have been to SAA meetings for over 2 months now and have never heard this a single time in a single meeting ever. It is in our literature that you are not required to talk in the meetings.

"Twelve Steppers do not refer to themselves as individuals. Read the Twelve Steps for yourself. The word "I" is not used."

The first thing anyone says before they speak at a meeting is their first name. We have check in at the beginning of most meetings where people identify themselves by name and list their addictive sexual behaviors and state their sobriety date. The group is a whole, but we fully recognize that the group is comprised of unique individuals.

"Because the Twelve Step approach is actually an alcohol program, it considers celibacy a success. You can attend Twelve Step meetings and hear Twelve Steppers brag about not having sex for years."

This is not simply not true. I have literally never heard anyone in a meeting brag about not having sex for years. Never. I have probably been to over 100 meetings and met hundreds of guys in the program and I have never heard this once. The 3 circles method of defining sobriety is used in every meeting i have ever attended.

"He also knew, as did I, that there are people who go to Twelve Step meetings to get a sexual high from listening to the confessions. Others go to find new sex partners."

This is applying something that Joe might have heard one time and applying it to every meeting. I have never felt like any member was there to get "high" off of the stories or to find sex partners. We even read aloud at each meeting that you need to leave if you are there to find a sexual partner. The rooms are full of older straight guys, usually in their 40s and 50s. If Joe has in his mind that the meetings are full of attractive females then he would be mistaken. I have only seen 2 girls in the hundreds of meetings I have attended.

If he had ever been to a meeting he would know that the stories are not something that you could ever get high off of. It sounds like he is talking about something he has never experienced.

There's plenty more out there like this. One after another.

Shall I quote some more?

Since I went through both AA and NA, I know for a fact that Zychik's descriptions of 12 step programs are seriously flawed.

If I were you, I would take the free publicity you got here on OL and run. 

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

Google "Ben Deet" for a laugh.

--Brant

run, run, run

[BTDT1980]

Mr. Kelly

Silly me. I posted under a pseudonym to avoid getting into a conflict with you. I offered Jesly a free ebook as an alternative to your advice. I did not criticize your advice.

Your unchecked premise that I am trying to drum up business is wrong. Anyone who contacts me for counseling hears an announcement that I am not taking in new clients. That announcement has been there since November, 2014. It is also posted on my website. I assumed that Jesly was a real person who really wanted help. I still do. She wanted to know if her husband was addicted and what the symptoms of sex addiction are. Wives in her situation suffer. I gave her a free source to answer her questions. I wanted to help her as best as I could without actually counseling her.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Mr. Zychik,

The problem with cons is they don't know when to stop. I think it's a self-esteem thing.

All anyone has to do is make a simple Google search. There is case after case of a stranger showing up somewhere asking about sex addiction and, miraculously, another stranger popping up and recommending... who?... why you, of course.

Just like here.

Except this time it's different, huh?

This time it's real...

Riiiiight...

Please don't treat OL members as morons. They are not.

I hope you find some peace with your own addiction of fooling others. Have you lied so much you now believe your own lies? I know this has to keep you up at night and I don't want you to suffer the shame. 

I'm irritated at you, but I mean that sincerely.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

18 minutes ago, BTDT1980 said:

Mr. Kelly

Silly me. I posted under a pseudonym to avoid getting into a conflict with you. I offered Jesly a free ebook as an alternative to your advice. I did not criticize your advice.

Your unchecked premise that I am trying to drum up business is wrong. Anyone who contacts me for counseling hears an announcement that I am not taking in new clients. That announcement has been there since November, 2014. It is also posted on my website. I assumed that Jesly was a real person who really wanted help. I still do. She wanted to know if her husband was addicted and what the symptoms of sex addiction are. Wives in her situation suffer. I gave her a free source to answer her questions. I wanted to help her as best as I could without actually counseling her.

Oh, brother. You have no idea what a wrong place you are in here.

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, Brant Gaede said:

Oh, brother. You have no idea what a wrong place you are in here.

Brant,

I'm almost ready to bet that if you scratch this one, you will find Scientology at the root.

Maybe a friggin' squirrel or two...

Michael

[BTDT1980]

Mr. Kelly,

Jesly wrote, “Can anyone help me to understand if my husband is a sex addict?” I replied to help her. I did not attack you. I did not criticize your ideas. You interjected yourself with a vehement attack on me and accused me of trying to drum up new business.

I responded by pointing out that I have not taken in new clients since November 2014 and that I am not looking for new business. You did not dispute it. Now you are calling me a con man. Are you saying that as a statement of fact? If so be prepared to back it up in court. Disagreeing with the 12-step approach does not make anyone a con man.

You insinuated that I am a Scientologist. I am not and never have been.

You also wrote:

4 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

There is case after case of a stranger showing up somewhere asking about sex addiction and, miraculously, another stranger popping up and recommending... who?... why you, of course.

Please submit evidence that I or someone working in conjunction with me created this supposed grand deception. Until you do, you are making an unfounded accusation that you might have to prove in court. 

There is nothing mysterious about my post to Jesly. I have been a lurker here ever since Frank O’Connor’s niece posted. I responded to Jesly in good faith to help her as much as I could. I had no idea it would lead to this.

I have better and more important things to do than continue this conflict. I hope you do also. I propose that we stop it here and call this dispute a series of misunderstandings and leave it at that. It will be a better alternative than a lawsuit or an endless flame war.

 

Please accept my offer. Thank you.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Zychik,

Lawsuit?

LOL...

Bring it on. (You have no idea...)

I love it when a lie doesn't stick, but the person has a need to fake reality so much, they can't stand it when others don't believe their lies. Ayn Rand wrote a lot about people like that.

Sorry, dude.

You won't get fake validation here.

May I suggest a 12 step program? Liars Anonymous or Trolls Anonymous or something?

btw - Congratulations on making a holy mess out of helping addicts in this thread. If I were a person with porn addiction and observed your behavior here, I assure you that you would be the last person on earth I would seek advice from.

It's easy to see you're addicted to faking reality and have not "confessed in public" your addiction (to use your own bogus cure language) nor tried abstinence. Your addiction still rules you.

And you allowed people to see that in 4 posts. That's quite an achievement.

 

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

13 hours ago, BTDT1980 said:

Mr. Kelly,

Jesly wrote, “Can anyone help me to understand if my husband is a sex addict?” I replied to help her. I did not attack you. I did not criticize your ideas. You interjected yourself with a vehement attack on me and accused me of trying to drum up new business.

I responded by pointing out that I have not taken in new clients since November 2014 and that I am not looking for new business. You did not dispute it. Now you are calling me a con man. Are you saying that as a statement of fact? If so be prepared to back it up in court. Disagreeing with the 12-step approach does not make anyone a con man.

You insinuated that I am a Scientologist. I am not and never have been.

You also wrote:

Please submit evidence that I or someone working in conjunction with me created this supposed grand deception. Until you do, you are making an unfounded accusation that you might have to prove in court. 

There is nothing mysterious about my post to Jesly. I have been a lurker here ever since Frank O’Connor’s niece posted. I responded to Jesly in good faith to help her as much as I could. I had no idea it would lead to this.

I have better and more important things to do than continue this conflict. I hope you do also. I propose that we stop it here and call this dispute a series of misunderstandings and leave it at that. It will be a better alternative than a lawsuit or an endless flame war.

 

Please accept my offer. Thank you.

Anybody can sue anybody. Or threaten to. It's called "hot air."

That's America.

--Brant

BTW, you can't have an "endless flame war" with the list owner--he can pull the plug any time he gets bored

[BTDT1980]

I will forward this conversation to my attorney. If he says we have a case, I will sue.

 

 

[Wolf DeVoon]

5 minutes ago, BTDT1980 said:

I will forward this conversation to my attorney. If he says we have a case, I will sue.

Put me down as a party. I love lawsuits, eat em for breakfast. Will compose scurrilous and defamatory posts later.

[Brant Gaede]

32 minutes ago, BTDT1980 said:

I will forward this conversation to my attorney. If he says we have a case, I will sue.

I wonder if your attorney is a bigger fool than you are.

--Brant

where's Jesly?

[Wolf DeVoon]

Hmm. OL Rule Five seems pretty clear (emphasis mine).

Quote

5. The site owners, at their own discretion, may remove members ... who join in order to add a link to sites which are spamlike ... and have no interest in discussing or reading about Ayn Rand or Objectivism.

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, BTDT1980 said:

I will forward this conversation to my attorney. If he says we have a case, I will sue.

Zychik,

I don't like to do this, but you are now under moderation.

I despise predators who prey on people at their most vulnerable. This is one of the reasons I don't promote addiction counseling other than standard organizations or education. After looking through your material online, a sleazy predator is exactly what I believe you are.

By now, you have learned that OL is not a site of old guys sitting around jerking off to their computer monitors who would be willing to pay you money to help them stop.

Give my regards to your attorney and please add the following. I have moved this thread to the Garbage Pile where it belongs.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

8 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Zychik,

I don't like to do this, but you are now under moderation.

I despise predators who prey on people at their most vulnerable. This is one of the reasons I don't promote addiction counseling other than standard organizations or education. After looking through your material online, a sleazy predator is exactly what I believe you are.

By now, you have learned that OL is not a site of old guys sitting around jerking off to their computer monitors who would be willing to pay you money to help them stop.

Give my regards to your attorney and please add the following. I have moved this thread to the Garbage Pile where it belongs.

Michael

Stop?

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Just now, Brant Gaede said:

Stop?

Brant,

In a minute.

After all, if we can't have enlightenment here on a philosophy forum, we should at least get a little entertainment.

Stay tuned.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

A few gems from around the web:

From here (by Cathy, presented as a mental health professional):

Quote

First off, know that Mr. Zychik is anti psychiatry which is what most counselors and all licensed counselors practice to some extent. That means you need specifically look for someone who practices outside of the conventional realm or what you might call an alternative practitioner. I would think you can do this more easily in a major city than a small town.

. . .

A licensed and credentialed mental health counselor would not take very well to someone asking? Have you read Mr. Zychik's book? We would like you to follow his recommendations?

Be mindful that most of us have spent many years in education and training and we would not take kindly to taking instruction from a non professional who posits a program that is not based on empirical evidence.

In a Recovery Nation thread where there is obviously a sockpuppet or two, you can scroll down and find these observations from several people:

Quote

(From CoachJon):

... while I haven't heard of the guy, anyone who instructs people to disengage from all other therapists, therapy, etc.--and put all of your faith in him--is someone to be very, very careful with. I don't know if this is what his actual intent is...but if it is, be careful. You need to put your faith in yourselves...and use people like me, him, therapists, etc. as tools to help you. 

People who are vulnerable are also susceptible to being taken advantage of. Keep your eyes wide open.

. . .

(From lily):

We had a totally BIZARRE experience with him. I would definitely NOT recommend him. Why not use a coach from here?

. . .

(From viola):

My ex was in contact with him, but did not feel good about him (and he IS ekspensive). I think RN is a much more serious place to use.

At another website called Reuniting (with what looks like a big honking sockpuppet on the thread for those who want to go there and see a "first-time poster" sing his praises to the skies ): 

Quote

(From Van):

I recently stumbled upon Joe Zychik's e-book "The Most Personal Addiction", and I finished the whole thing in a day. Everything he wrote about, I felt like I have experienced in trying to get myself off this addiction. It felt very good to have some validation in this area of my life.

Unfortunately, Joe doesn't provide what, exactly, an addict is supposed to do to to start taking positive steps towards recovery. He mentions the keywords ("honesty and motivation", etc), but I didn't find a method. To be honest, I felt pretty ripped off (even though it was a free read! :-). I felt like the answers to my questions were one chapter away, and then the book ended before it was about to begin!

. . .

(From Reloaded):

I ran across his website while i was doing research for the link between repression and addiction and he does have a lot to say about it but it does seem like he was setting up his site to just be kind of a lure to buy his book. I think what happened was something fell through and he just left everything out there anyway. It was a good read but like you said there arent any real answers. Also a lot of what he said was kind of contradictory.

At Porn Addiction Info by Tanya (a "Super Administrator" of the site):

Quote

Im didnt spend too much time reading this guys sales pitch so Im not going to totally denounce it..... but I was more than a little annoyed by this statement:

"The twelve step program develops motivation through group pressure. You are required to stand up in front of the group, confess your addictive past and then promise the group that you're going to stop."

Its just not true. In my experience, 12 step programs are not at all about group pressure - they are about group support. You are certainly NOT REQUIRED to stand up in front of a group and confess your sins- On the contrary, you can sit quietly and listen for months or years and no one will bug you or give it a second thought...... and you dont promise " The Group " or even yourself that "youre going to stop". You gradually, through reflection and very personal inner work with yourself "become willing to let go of your defects of character" ----- No promises - and no harsh reprimands if you slip- or realize you are not ready to let go of your defects...... A 12 step program is a VERY personal journey for each individual- you make (or dont make) your own progress in your own time- with nothing but quiet support from your peers. 

I am also really turned off by this guys Joe's denoucement of therapists. Since recovery begain in my marriage my H and I have been to about 6 or 7 different therapists (both group and individual) - and although a few of them "werent good fits" for us for whatever reason, None of them ever uttered the silly and very unhelpful phrases that Joe Z quotes as being common. 

My gut reaction is that, yes indeed , this guy is just out to make money. Anyone who really cared about helping others heal would just present their own plan and method for others to take or leave - and not attack or denounce other methods that could potentially work for them..... which brings me to your next question which is 'has anyone had success with a 12 step program?'. Ummm yes, many of our regular posters are having success in recovery working strong programs in SA, SAA or SLAA. I invite you to do a bit more reading here- you will find much evidence that, trite as it may sound: It does "Work if you Work it".

That's enough for now. And there's plenty more where that came from.

The only thing that bothers me is seeing some addiction people of goodwill on the websites saying they don't agree with this guy's stuff, but if it works, use it. That's what all recovered addicts say and it's good advice. But they are being sincere and I believe this guy is not. 

But hell, if a sleazy predator helps anyone stop an addiction, I'm OK with it. Even so, I sure as hell am not going to encourage people to seek out a sleazy predator of the vulnerable for help.

This was fun at first, but now I'm getting bored--tired of looking and messing with it. Enough of my precious time has been wasted on this loser.

The guy's obviously a crackpot and not well thought of in general, especially by mental health people--that is, unless a new poster nobody knows appears on a site somewhere and makes a first post praising him, there's a lot of that.  

Rum ta dum dum...

Tell me, sweetie, was it as good for you as it was for me?

 

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

btw - On this guy's website (which I will not link to and give him a backlink), he says the most popular recovery methods are twelve step programs, conventional licensed therapy, and religion. But those are the Brand X models. His new improved super-duper addiction recovery method is called "Volitional Honesty."

Jeez Luise, it sounds like this dude is part of O-Land.

(sigh)...

The crazies just keep coming...

Michael