Conspiracy theories and Conspiracy theorists

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, BaalChatzaf said:

Why is his murder now being declared an  "assassination"?

Bob,

If there had been a correct police investigation and not all that bullying to shut up everytime his name came up, I believe most people would have not given it a second thought. But when the police hastily called it a robbery and nothing was stolen, when they did not look at the neighborhood cameras, when they did not try to even identify persons of interest, much less suspects, when a major Democratic public image fixer suddenly started speaking in the name of the family without really speaking to the family, etc. etc., etc., it stinks.

Now Media Matters funded by George Soros is attacking Sean Hannity's advertisers because he would not let go of this story.

This, to me, will break wide open as the pressure mounts. Then the hiders won't be able to hide anymore.

If I end up being wrong, I hope it will be because the police actually do a decent investigation and not because this murder goes into media limbo again. As it stands, though, a lot of law enforcement-type people are now investigating. So we'll know for sure before too long.

In case you are not aware of it, Seth Rich was in charge of the very material that got leaked to Wikileaks that led to the dismissal of Debbie Wasserman Schultz as DNC leader, blew Donna Brazile off CNN, and pissed off Bernie folks to no end. It's the material that proved the DNC was rigged in favor of Hillary Clinton. Two weeks after Rich's murder, Wikileaks made this material public. That's about the time it would have taken them to vet the material if they had gotten it from Rich (which they probably did).

Too much fits too well together to just shut up and sit down. This stinks to high Heaven and is entertaining like a cover-up out of a spy novel.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

5 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said:

Let me ask this.  Is is just possible  that Rich was murdered by a mugger as he walked home in the dark in the wee hours of the morning.  Evil acts like this happen all the time.   Why is his murder now being declared an  "assassination"?   Is their any evidence that he was "assassinated"?    The fact of his most unfortunate killing followed acts of Rich's that had political consequences.   Post hoc ergo propter hoc?   After this therefore -because of this-?  

The fact that this could have been a politically motivated assassination does not mean it -was- a politically motivated assassination. 

By calling it an "assassination" one is encouraging a proper law enforcement investigation. Without that there is little prospect of ever putting a correct, more particular label on this murder. Your request for a proper label merely is a request to freeze everything respecting that. Not you--your words. The rectitude you demand is not available from the body politic and never has been. That is why the United States was walked into WWII. (Economic and political war against Japan. Concentration of the fleet at Pearl Harbor. Provocations in the Pacific. Sneak attack on Pearl Harbor. Declaration of war with only one dissenting (end-of-career) vote in Congress.)

If it wasn't a politically motivated murder it doesn't matter how much the water gets churned about it here or anywhere. So--churn, baby, churn.

--Brant

[Wolf DeVoon]

20 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

By calling it an "assassination" one is encouraging a proper law enforcement investigation.

Shot twice in the back, nothing stolen, not even the large wad of cash in his pocket. What do you think it was?

[Brant Gaede]

1 minute ago, Wolf DeVoon said:

Shot twice in the back, nothing stolen, not even the large wad of cash in his pocket. What do you think it was?

Assassination--until demonstrated to the contrary.

--Brant

but by whom for what?--not going down that slippery slope without that missing investigation

[BaalChatzaf]

1 hour ago, Brant Gaede said:

By calling it an "assassination" one is encouraging a proper law enforcement investigation. Without that there is little prospect of ever putting a correct, more particular label on this murder. Your request for a proper label merely is a request to freeze everything respecting that. Not you--your words. The rectitude you demand is not available from the body politic and never has been. That is why the United States was walked into WWII. (Economic and political war against Japan. Concentration of the fleet at Pearl Harbor. Provocations in the Pacific. Sneak attack on Pearl Harbor. Declaration of war with only one dissenting (end-of-career) vote in Congress.)

If it wasn't a politically motivated murder it doesn't matter how much the water gets churned about it here or anywhere. So--churn, baby, churn.

--Brant

My insistence on a proper name for the crime is predicated on the hypothesis  which is most likely based on the evidence currently in hand.  It is Bayesian estimation  which is the proper logic of empirical induction.   When new evidence comes to light then we might revise our hypothesis concerning the homicide., It was homicide (based on the known facts)  not assassination.  I am not requesting anything.  Did you read the word "request" or "should" in any of my posts on this matter? 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I got a complaint offline that my statement that Rich was "in charge of the very material that got leaked to Wikileaks" is not true.

It's a minor gotcha so let me restate it: Seth Rich "had full unimpeded autonomous self-determining free absolute unaided access to the very material that got leaked to Wikileaks." He could mess with it to his heart's content if he so wished.

So there.

All fixed now.

I have a feeling in the mind of the gotcha person, this small correction will be grounds to claim that Rich wasn't even murdered, much less for political reasons, or that I'm lying and didn't understand that Rich had no idea what a computer was.

   

Oh... I forgot, there's the grieving family and their wishes for all this to go away. Yeah... I forgot. So there has to be the murder. Without the murder, there can't be the weeping victims paraded 24/7 in the press for a good tearjerking victimization story to muddy the facts. I mean, how cruel and heartless can I be to even mention this? What's wrong with me? Can't I see that the family's tears trumps any and all facts? Especially where Hillary Clinton is concerned? 

But, with me, it's even worse. I have a feeling that the family members probably despise President Trump and the right wing in general and don't want their son's murder to benefit their son's political enemies. So they probably want the political part of the investigation stopped to keep one of the values of their murdered son alive. One never sees that thought mentioned in the press or in offline complaints. But, man, does it make sense to me. It even explains the Democratic handler and image fixer. In fact, this is exactly how I would feel in their shoes.

Just look at this picture of Rich:

This is not the picture of casual politician or party hack. He looks like a passionate believer in his cause and in love with America. And his family would know it. I think they would want to honor it as his legacy.

(As an aside, this would make for a very good novel. It's one hell of a moral dilemma to develop a knuckle-biting, page-turning, heart-wrenching story around. In other words, what would happen if solving your son's murder advanced and benefited the causes and people he and you despised and destroyed the causes and people he and you loved and believed in?)

The complainant also said that I have it wrong that the Wikileaks DNC server material lead to the dismissal of "Debbie Wasserman Schultz as DNC leader, blew Donna Brazile off CNN, and pissed off Bernie folks to no end," and that I have it wrong that the nomination of Hillary Clinton was rigged by the DNC against Bernie. But anyone with eyes can see this part of the complaint is pure bullshit.

Ah... to be agenda driven to distraction and blank-outs...

My youth, my youth, where hast thou escaped to? Why doth now I walk jaded in the garden of social certainties?

 

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

12 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

... and not all that bullying to shut up everytime his name came up...

More Seth Rich news.

This kind of crap is what I am talking about.

If political motivation for Rich's murder is just a tin foil hat conspiracy theory and crackpot idea, things like DDOS attacks are not necessary when new facts are to be disclosed on a site. If this is really on the level of Lizard People, the "dark forces" should allow the information to surface, then ridicule it. But instead, they use every dirty trick in the book to keep the information from even getting online.

It's coming, though. This particular little boy in the shadows has too many fingers in a dam that is cracking wide open. He's running out of fingers as more and more cracks appear.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

7 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said:

My insistence on a proper name for the crime is predicated on the hypothesis  which is most likely based on the evidence currently in hand.  It is Bayesian estimation  which is the proper logic of empirical induction.   When new evidence comes to light then we might revise our hypothesis concerning the homicide., It was homicide (based on the known facts)  not assassination.  I am not requesting anything.  Did you read the word "request" or "should" in any of my posts on this matter? 

Assassination is a sub-category to murder which in turn is a sub-category to homicide. Two out of these three categories have been determined, not whether it was an assassination.

--Brant

[Wolf DeVoon]

1 hour ago, Brant Gaede said:

Assassination is a sub-category to murder which in turn is a sub-category to homicide. Two out of these three categories have been determined, not whether it was an assassination.

--Brant

Fair enough. It could have been a crime of passion. Was he straight or gay? involved with who exactly?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

On 5/28/2017 at 4:57 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

If political motivation for Rich's murder is just a tin foil hat conspiracy theory and crackpot idea, things like DDOS attacks are not necessary when new facts are to be disclosed on a site.

Here's the report that got blasted by DDOS, then removed from the site after the attack was over.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Judicial Watch is on the gig, Obama spying, Seth Rich, Adam Schiff ethics problems, etc.

Lots of good stuff coming down the pike. All validated with FOIA requests and other legal documents.

Michael

[Peter]

On MSN it was just reported Trump had found 3 White House leakers and was going to fire them, but no sources were named, nor were the bad guys named. Fake news?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

On 5/29/2017 at 7:38 PM, Peter said:

On MSN it was just reported Trump had found 3 White House leakers and was going to fire them, but no sources were named, nor were the bad guys named. Fake news?

Peter,

It might be. This news was all over the place.

And that leads me to think about this. President Trump likes to hand out identical "secrets" to different people with small, almost undetectable, variations in each copy so he can see which report gets leaked. He does it so the variations will appear in the news reports because the copy will be quoted. Imagine the delicious irony if the bogus secret is about the leakers themselves.   Don't think President Trump isn't smart enough to do this. I can see him laughing his ass off behind closed doors.

On another issue, the person below, Fiona Hill, will probably make the cut as a leaker. 

The interesting thing for me in this video, though, is not that she was identified by Roger Stone and his unnamed sources (so far). It's the rhythm between Roger and Alex Jones. It seems like they have rehearsed what to do when Alex explodes with one of his interruptions.

Roger no longer looks miffed but controlled when interrupted (like he's done up to now) and Alex stops very soon after he's exploded (which is different than the way he used to hog the time ranting). In this video, they go back and forth in perfect harmony like a well-rehearsed music duo.

I predict this is an act in the making that will be used over and over and over on Infowars. It works.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Hillary Clinton conspiracy theory -- Not only did the Russians do it, it was Alex Jones and Infowars as Putin puppets!

I love it...

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I have my own conspiracy theory about a news show. I have not seen this mentioned anywhere and I don't have time to elaborate with quotes or write about it in depth. But it makes a lot more sense to me than the reality presented to everyone on the surface.

It concerns Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski and their program Morning Joe.

Here are the details of that show that have stood out to me over time.

1. It was obvious as all hell to me, from the first time I saw the show, that they were involved in an affair, even though both were married to others. It was in the way they acted toward each other. Now that they are openly engaged, it's known fact. But the implication to me is that it's pretty clear they have no problem being deceptive to their audience. 

2. They used to be very friendly with candidate Trump. He was on their show all the time. Then he started winning one thing after another and they became a lot more unfriendly from one day to another. I remember the time as I used to watch them all the time just to get Trump's interviews. What happened was this. A few articles came out in the mainstream news blaming them for Trump's rising political popularity and what did they do? They turned on a dime. That's what. It was total fakery. One day they were friends with him. The next day they were bashing him. It was like flipping a switch and it was pretty comical, even at the time, because of the abruptness of the transformation. Now they are his bitterest enemy and one of the most over-the-top conspiracy folks out there about all things Trump.

3. Every time Mika got miffed with The Donald in the early days and even later, Joe sounded like they had inside information from establishment Republicans surrounding Paul Ryan. That posture of inside knowledge always popped out at me. Especially when he would make dire warnings to Trump (never to his face, by the way) and people in the news who supported Trump.

Then the following happened and I put two and two together.

Zbigniew Brzezinski died the other day and this was in the news everywhere. He was Mika's father and the National Security Advisor to President Carter.

Woah...

National Security Advisor?

Ding!!!

You mean like a spook? As in Deep State spook? As former National Security Advisor, he would certainly know where the spooks were hidden and dug in. Doesn't it seem reasonable that he would let his darling daughter in on a few inside tracks?

So here's my conspiracy theory. Joe and Mika were originally tasked by the Deep State (or establishment people connected with the Deep State) with keeping an eye on Donald Trump. This was not because the Deep State feared Trump in the early days. It was precisely the opposite. Keeping Trump near was a junior task without much consequence at the time. It was to give Mika the appearance she was an insider and doing something covert. But this was more as a favor to her old man. I bet the Deep Staters even smiled knowingly with ole Zbigi when they told him that was what they were going to do and he smiled knowingly back. I can almost see him saying, "Thanks for taking care of my little girl and keeping her out of harm's way with a dud candidate who will be good for her showbiz image."  

And it worked well for a while. Morning Joe's ratings soared, but, politically the press was massacring Trump day in and day out. And there were all those fake polls saying he didn't have a chance. It looked like a win-win for everyone. Trump--the buffoon--gets played by giving Morning Joe ratings and the appearance of being taken seriously as a candidate, and Mika and her hunk get a pat on the head--all while the real business of politics is being done backstage with Jeb & Co..

But then Trump started winning. And kept winning. And winning and winning and winning.

The Deep State was not amused.

So they sent out a warning shot in the press to Joe and Mika, both of whom fell into line immediately. Friend with Trump one day. Enemy another. But even after they turned, it got worse for them. Trump won the presidency.

Now, with every action taken by President Trump that damages the globalist agenda, the Deep State people keep blaming it on Joe and Mika. So, to save their asses, they have to keep being strident against their former "friend." I bet the times when they get way over-the-top strident, like when Mika went on the attack by banning Kellyanne Conway from ever appearing on her show again, or the several times she called President Trump mentally ill for real and tried to get validation from psychologists, etc., etc., etc., they were getting their asses chewed out one more time backstage. And I bet they never stop getting their asses chewed out backstage.

After all, they screwed up. They were supposed to keep an eye on Trump and manipulate him, not help him win.

Anyway, there is my contribution to Tin Foil Hattery.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

This is actually a pretty good rant for a conspiracy theorist.

btw - Megyn Kelly will be interviewing Alex soon.

It looks like she chose three people to interview to launch her reemergence: Vladimir Putin, Alex Jones and Donald Trump.

(How's that for covertly playing off the meme that the Russians did it? She interviews three of the main actors in the bogus narrative without saying that's what she's doing. My respect for Megyn just went up.)

Alex and Megyn are sure hamming it up. The title of the video of Alex discussing it is: "Alex Jones Will Go Toe To Toe with Globalist Operative Megyn Kelly." 

I might as well post that video, too.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Ah, hell.

I might as well put this one up, too.

 

The thumbnail is tacky and camp, but the artistry quality of this parody is way better than the normal of the Infowars folks.

I wonder if they're getting some Hollywood professionals to advise their video editors.

Somebody is doing something right over there. 

Michael

[Peter]

One of the science channels had a documentary tonight showing that a blast off South Africa was a nuclear device . . . powered by the brains of the smartest people on the planet . . . the Jews. Queue the X-Files and The Twilight Zone theme songs. In the past I read that Israel might possess 8 nuclear weapons. But this article says 200? Oy vey. Glad they are on our side.

Peter

From the Times of Israel. Report says Israel planned atomic detonation in Sinai if Six Day War went wrong. New York Times, quoting newly released interview, says the display of nuclear strength was a ‘doomsday’ scenario not needed after IDF victory By Times of Israel staff June 3, 2017, 11:31 pm. One the eve of the Six Day War, with the country surrounded by enemies and unsure of its future, Israel developed a “doomsday” plan to detonate an atomic bomb in Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula as a warning to the Arabs, The New York Times reported Saturday. The report was based on an interview conducted by leading Israeli nuclear scholar Avner Cohen with retired IDF brigadier general Itzhak Yaakov, who reportedly oversaw the plan. “It’s the last secret of the 1967 war,” Cohen told the paper.

The full interview is set to be published Monday, as the region marks the 50th anniversary of the war in which Israel defeated the combined Arab armies in just six days. According to Yaakov, who oversaw weapons development for the Israel military and gave details of the plan to Cohen in 1999 and 2000 interviews, Israel was deeply fearful ahead of the war. “Look, it was so natural,” Yaakov said, according to the Times, which quoted a transcription of a taped interview. “You’ve got an enemy, and he says he’s going to throw you to the sea. You believe him.” “How can you stop him?” Yaakov asked. “You scare him. If you’ve got something you can scare him with, you scare him.”

Yaakov, who died in 2013 at age 87, detailed in the interview with Cohen how Israel developed a plan code-named “Shimshon,” or Samson, to have helicopters and commandos fly an atomic device to a mountain top site about 12 miles from an Egyptian military complex at Abu Ageila. “The plan, if activated by order of the prime minister and military chief of staff, was to send a small paratrooper force to divert the Egyptian Army in the desert area so that a team could lay preparations for the atomic blast,” the report said. “Two large helicopters were to land, deliver the nuclear device and then create a command post in a mountain creek or canyon. If the order came to detonate, the blinding flash and mushroom cloud would have been seen throughout the Sinai and Negev deserts, and perhaps as far away as Cairo.”

Israel has never acknowledged having nuclear weapons, maintaining a policy of so-called nuclear ambiguity, neither publicly confirming nor denying the existence of an atomic arsenal. However, several top US officials have seemed to confirm it, most recently former secretary of state Colin Powell who wrote in a leaked private email that he believed Israel has some 200 nuclear weapons. The Israeli Embassy in Washington declined to comment on the report or on Yaakov’s role, The New York Times said. If Israel had detonated a device, it would have been the first use of a nuclear weapon in a war situation since the US dropped the two bombs on Japan to end World War II.

On Monday, the Nuclear Proliferation International History Project of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington — where Cohen is a fellow — is releasing on a special website a series of documents related to the Israeli atomic plan. In the transcripts, Yaakov describes a helicopter flight he made to the site with Israel Dostrovsky, the first director-general of the Israel Atomic Energy Commission, that had to be aborted after the Egyptians scrambled fighter jets.

“We got very close,” Yaakov reportedly said. “We saw the mountain, and we saw that there is a place to hide there, in some canyon.” As it turned out, Israel’s victory was swift and decisive and there was no need for any doomsday plan, but Yaakov still believed Israel should have gone ahead with it and openly declared its nuclear prowess. “I still think to this day that we should have done it,” he told Cohen, who is the author of “Israel and the Bomb” and “The Worst-Kept Secret.”

In 2001, some 2 years after his conversations with Cohen, Yaakov was arrested in Israel and charged with passing secret information with intent to harm state security. The charges related to memoirs he wrote, the Haaretz daily reported in its obituary of Yaakov in 2013. Yaakov was acquitted of the main charge but found guilty of the unauthorized handing over of secret information, Haaretz said, noting that he received a two-year suspended sentence. The obituary hinted at the exploits in the Sinai Desert, saying that “Yaakov was one of Israel’s leading officers in the field of weapons development during the build-up to the Six Day War and afterwards. During the war he was appointed to command a complex and unprecedented operation in the Sinai Peninsula, where he was to command both IAF pilots and a special ops unit. The IDF’s rapid success in defeating the Egyptian army made the operation redundant and it was cancelled.” According to Cohen, he promised Yaakov he would find the right time to publish the information and now, on the 50th anniversary, he believed the time was ripe.

[BaalChatzaf]

9 hours ago, Peter said:

One of the science channels had a documentary tonight showing that a blast off South Africa was a nuclear device . . . powered by the brains of the smartest people on the planet . . . the Jews. Queue the X-Files and The Twilight Zone theme songs. In the past I read that Israel might possess 8 nuclear weapons. But this article says 200? Oy vey. Glad they are on our side.

Peter

From the Times of Israel. Report says Israel planned atomic detonation in Sinai if Six Day War went wrong. New York Times, quoting newly released interview, says the display of nuclear strength was a ‘doomsday’ scenario not needed after IDF victory By Times of Israel staff June 3, 2017, 11:31 pm. One the eve of the Six Day War, with the country surrounded by enemies and unsure of its future, Israel developed a “doomsday” plan to detonate an atomic bomb in Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula as a warning to the Arabs, The New York Times reported Saturday. The report was based on an interview conducted by leading Israeli nuclear scholar Avner Cohen with retired IDF brigadier general Itzhak Yaakov, who reportedly oversaw the plan. “It’s the last secret of the 1967 war,” Cohen told the paper.

The full interview is set to be published Monday, as the region marks the 50th anniversary of the war in which Israel defeated the combined Arab armies in just six days. According to Yaakov, who oversaw weapons development for the Israel military and gave details of the plan to Cohen in 1999 and 2000 interviews, Israel was deeply fearful ahead of the war. “Look, it was so natural,” Yaakov said, according to the Times, which quoted a transcription of a taped interview. “You’ve got an enemy, and he says he’s going to throw you to the sea. You believe him.” “How can you stop him?” Yaakov asked. “You scare him. If you’ve got something you can scare him with, you scare him.”

Yaakov, who died in 2013 at age 87, detailed in the interview with Cohen how Israel developed a plan code-named “Shimshon,” or Samson, to have helicopters and commandos fly an atomic device to a mountain top site about 12 miles from an Egyptian military complex at Abu Ageila. “The plan, if activated by order of the prime minister and military chief of staff, was to send a small paratrooper force to divert the Egyptian Army in the desert area so that a team could lay preparations for the atomic blast,” the report said. “Two large helicopters were to land, deliver the nuclear device and then create a command post in a mountain creek or canyon. If the order came to detonate, the blinding flash and mushroom cloud would have been seen throughout the Sinai and Negev deserts, and perhaps as far away as Cairo.”

Israel has never acknowledged having nuclear weapons, maintaining a policy of so-called nuclear ambiguity, neither publicly confirming nor denying the existence of an atomic arsenal. However, several top US officials have seemed to confirm it, most recently former secretary of state Colin Powell who wrote in a leaked private email that he believed Israel has some 200 nuclear weapons. The Israeli Embassy in Washington declined to comment on the report or on Yaakov’s role, The New York Times said. If Israel had detonated a device, it would have been the first use of a nuclear weapon in a war situation since the US dropped the two bombs on Japan to end World War II.

On Monday, the Nuclear Proliferation International History Project of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington — where Cohen is a fellow — is releasing on a special website a series of documents related to the Israeli atomic plan. In the transcripts, Yaakov describes a helicopter flight he made to the site with Israel Dostrovsky, the first director-general of the Israel Atomic Energy Commission, that had to be aborted after the Egyptians scrambled fighter jets.

“We got very close,” Yaakov reportedly said. “We saw the mountain, and we saw that there is a place to hide there, in some canyon.” As it turned out, Israel’s victory was swift and decisive and there was no need for any doomsday plan, but Yaakov still believed Israel should have gone ahead with it and openly declared its nuclear prowess. “I still think to this day that we should have done it,” he told Cohen, who is the author of “Israel and the Bomb” and “The Worst-Kept Secret.”

In 2001, some 2 years after his conversations with Cohen, Yaakov was arrested in Israel and charged with passing secret information with intent to harm state security. The charges related to memoirs he wrote, the Haaretz daily reported in its obituary of Yaakov in 2013. Yaakov was acquitted of the main charge but found guilty of the unauthorized handing over of secret information, Haaretz said, noting that he received a two-year suspended sentence. The obituary hinted at the exploits in the Sinai Desert, saying that “Yaakov was one of Israel’s leading officers in the field of weapons development during the build-up to the Six Day War and afterwards. During the war he was appointed to command a complex and unprecedented operation in the Sinai Peninsula, where he was to command both IAF pilots and a special ops unit. The IDF’s rapid success in defeating the Egyptian army made the operation redundant and it was cancelled.” According to Cohen, he promised Yaakov he would find the right time to publish the information and now, on the 50th anniversary, he believed the time was ripe.

Samson was the "secret weapon"  of the Israelites against the Phillistines. 

[Brant Gaede]

8 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said:

Samson was the "secret weapon"  of the Israelites against the Phillistines. 

Who speaks today for the Phillistines?

--Brant

[BaalChatzaf]

1 hour ago, Brant Gaede said:

Who speaks today for the Phillistines?

--Brant

The Palestinians are the latter day historical successors  of the Phillistines.  The Hebrew word for Phillistines  is  פלשתים (pronounced plishteem) and is also the Hebrew word for Palestinians. 

[Brant Gaede]

27 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said:

The Palestinians are the latter day historical successors  of the Phillistines.  The Hebrew word for Phillistines  is  פלשתים (pronounced plishteem) and is also the Hebrew word for Palestinians. 

I meant for those back then--that is, do we really know who they were?

--Brant

[Peter]

39 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said:

..

I think you can look at the "trend" of the art and fiction writing, and not just the news of that era, to know more about a group of people. Does the election of Donald tell something about us? I hope so. Jobs, The Stock Market, increased prosperity, more personal freedom appear to be the new norm so our choice says we are not stupid.

Peter

[BaalChatzaf]

5 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

I meant for those back then--that is, do we really know who they were?

--Brant

The original plishteem were often referred to as the Sea People.  So they might have been ship born settlers from one of the Islands of the Aegean.  From the artifacts  made by them  they were skilled craftsmen.  A civilized  lot although not terribly nice to the Israelites.  It took a long time for the Israelites to beat them back militarily. They also might have come from Cyprus or Crete. 

[Brant Gaede]

5 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said:

The original plishteem were often referred to as the Sea People.  So they might have been ship born settlers from one of the Islands of the Aegean.  From the artifacts  made by them  they were skilled craftsmen.  A civilized  lot although not terribly nice to the Israelites.  It took a long time for the Israelites to beat them back militarily. They also might have come from Cyprus or Crete. 

I thought the Sea People decimated Mediterranean civilizations.

--Brant