atlashead Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 How to be a prime mover: The self Tighten your abs, sit up straight, clench your anus, clench your kegal muscles, straighten your arms, straighten your fingers, pull your shoulders back, smile, keep your head level. Control your thoughts, control your breathing. Exercise.Don't fidget. Others Never ask for help. Never take what isn’t yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 A prime mover is something that moves without being caused to moved by anything else. Humans are not prime movers. Out motions are caused by muscular contractions produced by chemical processes involving the food we eat. We move because we have an energy source external to our muscles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 Geez, a post written by chemical processes. What a breakthrough for science. Can I order a framed copy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jts Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 3 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said: A prime mover is something that moves without being caused to moved by anything else. Humans are not prime movers. Out motions are caused by muscular contractions produced by chemical processes involving the food we eat. We move because we have an energy source external to our muscles. The mere fact that we have an energy source external to our muscles is not sufficient to make us move. We must decide to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 7 hours ago, jts said: The mere fact that we have an energy source external to our muscles is not sufficient to make us move. We must decide to move. Think again. Have you ever tripped and fallen without willing your mishap? Of course you have. Every kid with a skinned knee is testimony to unwilled motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 Where there's a will there's a way... Speaking of life, the prime mover is the will to achieve a goal. Presumably the whole purpose of participating on a philosophical website is to strengthen the will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Mikee said: Where there's a will there's a way... Speaking of life, the prime mover is the will to achieve a goal. Presumably the whole purpose of participating on a philosophical website is to strengthen the will. Are you saying that the later Christopher Reeves (of Superman fame) could not move his limbs for lack of will power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 My god Bob. You are obsessed with the world of lifeless physical phenomenon which obey the laws of motion only and ignore the world of the living. Perhaps because you are too close to a lifeless state yourself? Christopher Reeves, so long as he was alive, retained the will to live and had the means to direct others to move his limbs on a daily basis in physical therapy, hoping for an eventual cure for his paralysis. He probably got more exercise in a day than most people do. Did it ever occur to you to wonder what purpose the original poster of this thread had in starting it? Do you imagine it was so he could get a lesson in Physics 101 and the impotence of philosophy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 Bob is impotent with philosophy, commonly understood. He uses bits and pieces while the great part of the knowable but to him unknown lays on all about him. --Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 5 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said: Think again. Have you ever tripped and fallen without willing your mishap? Of course you have. Every kid with a skinned knee is testimony to unwilled motion. Nutz, Bob. You decided to move in the first place. Walking and running is a series of interrupted falling downs. --Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 17 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said: A prime mover is something that moves without being caused to moved by anything else. Humans are not prime movers. Out motions are caused by muscular contractions produced by chemical processes involving the food we eat. We move because we have an energy source external to our muscles. We "move" because there is nothing in existence that does not "move." If that's your frame of reference there are no prime movers, not anything or anyone. Now, we "move" in the sense we are talking about because we choose to "move." Since you seem to be using "prime mover" as a negative but disclaim prime movership, then you are talking about nothing but an idea. Now, if one stops eating and is reduced to near-death fatigue where is the energy needed to move? If you commit suicide? To live or not to live, to think about one particular something and not another, these are all expressions of prime movership or choice, aka free will. You can't have your free will and eat it too. --Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 2 hours ago, Brant Gaede said: Nutz, Bob. You decided to move in the first place. Walking and running is a series of interrupted falling downs. --Brant To be in a place, but not to fall. The fall is unwilled motion. One can be in a place and not fall. One can be in the same place and fall. It all depends on happenings unwilled and unchosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 3 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said: To be in a place, but not to fall. The fall is unwilled motion. One can be in a place and not fall. One can be in the same place and fall. It all depends on happenings unwilled and unchosen. What you are really doing is freezing everything and chopping out a piece claiming that slice of static reality is reality then--a miracle!--sudden movement!--the subject falls down! --Brant how could such a person be a "prime mover"--he didn't move until he fell over!--now, again, why did he fall over?--look, push a statue of a man over; the statue isn't a prime mover--nope, but you are saying it is, you are saying a man is a statue but another man, who decided (chose) to push it over, is also a statue? if a man walks up to a bus stop, stops, has a heart attack and falls down because he's dead on his feet, we have the schematic sequence of prime mover to no more prime mover (that's my claim)--a corpse: you are saying a corpse is not a prime mover because it's a corpse that fell down?--who could argue? why does your man "fall"?--in February I fell flat on my face when the tip of my shoe grabbed a lip of asphalt--fortunately my hands took the brunt of it, but I was walking very fast walking fast--what caused that?--energy?--you're still into denying not only the efficacy of consciousness but consciousness itself and you have no idea of it for you can't make sense of what you are doing so you can't be doing it--right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Where is everybody? C'mon, somebody, fight me! --Brant ~sob~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlashead Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 The reason these things help may b evolutionary, but r definitely practical to a person who has urges to take immoral action in your must undo these things to make a move. I'll answer the paralyzed ?, but this is the last & only one: perhaps it doesn't matter they can't b moved-just that they try! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 On 5/8/2016 at 8:40 AM, BaalChatzaf said: Are you saying that the later Christopher Reeves (of Superman fame) could not move his limbs for lack of will power? Christopher Reeves could not move his limbs as a consequence of his will power to choose ride a horse in a competition jumping event. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 On 5/8/2016 at 11:05 AM, Mikee said: My god Bob. You are obsessed with the world of lifeless physical phenomenon which obey the laws of motion only and ignore the world of the living. It's Bob's secular religion. In his religion, humans are not morally accountable for their actions... ...because human behavior is solely the result of choiceless chemical reactions. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 On 5/8/2016 at 0:24 AM, jts said: The mere fact that we have an energy source external to our muscles is not sufficient to make us move. We must decide to move. You do not will your body temperature which is the average kinetic energy of molecules in your body. The movement of individual molecules is not subject to conscious control. You can control direction of muscular movement and (within limits) extent of muscular movement. But your basic metabolic reactions (involving ATP) are not under conscious control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 6 hours ago, moralist said: It's Bob's secular religion. In his religion, humans are not morally accountable for their actions... ...because human behavior is solely the result of choiceless chemical reactions. Greg Not true. Laws and Punishments are imposed. That is a matter of observable fact. These laws are human artifacts and do not flow logically or necessarily from the physical nature of the cosmos. And the laws are enforced by people with guns and live ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 On 5/7/2016 at 3:49 PM, atlashead said: How to be a prime mover: The self Tighten your abs, sit up straight, clench your anus, clench your kegal muscles, straighten your arms, straighten your fingers, pull your shoulders back, smile, keep your head level. Control your thoughts, control your breathing. Exercise.Don't fidget. Others Never ask for help. Never take what isn’t yours. Mutual aid is the essence of human society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 On 7/5/2016 at 5:43 PM, atlashead said: The reason these things help may b evolutionary, but r definitely practical to a person who has urges to take immoral action in your must undo these things to make a move. I'll answer the paralyzed ?, but this is the last & only one: perhaps it doesn't matter they can't b moved-just that they try! Is this the way text is sent on a "smart phone"? I find it incoherent. --Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 8 hours ago, moralist said: Christopher Reeves could not move his limbs as a consequence of his will power to choose ride a horse in a competition jumping event. Greg His injury was unintended by him. Accidents do happen. According to Greg anything that happens to us is OUR FAULT. There is no such thing as a mishap. Every happening is the product of will and intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 1 hour ago, BaalChatzaf said: His injury was unintended by him. Accidents do happen. According to Greg anything that happens to us is OUR FAULT. Not always your fault... but always your responsibility, Bob. Reeves willingly assumed the physical risks of jumping horses. Only liberals talk about intentions. Intentions are completely meaningless. Only what you actually do matters. It's funny how you're all Mister Causal Chemical Reactions until it applies to you personally. Then you had nothing to do with it and are just a helpless innocent victim. That's how liberals think. Why take personal responsibility for your own life when you can blame others or random chance for how your life turned out. You're completely dumb to the realization of the precise timing of the confluence of events required for "accidents" to occur. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 13 minutes ago, moralist said: Not always your fault... but always your responsibility, Bob. Reeves willingly assumed the physical risks of jumping horses. Only liberals talk about intentions. Intentions are completely meaningless. Only what you actually do matters. It's funny how you're all Mister Causal Chemical Reactions until it applies to you personally. Then you had nothing to do with it and are just a helpless innocent victim. That's how liberals think. They blame others. Greg We are all part of and components of events in which we are involved. But that is not the same as Moral Onus. The best way not to be the blame for anything is not to exist at all. BTW I am not a liberal. I am a strict constructionist and I am very fussy about legal propriety. Laws and rules are one of the means by which humans can live together in society and not slaughter each other. There are few people as touchy as I am about property and privacy. One of the simple rules I live by is this: what is mine is Mine and what is yours is Yours. Liberals on the other hand have a principle: What is mine is Mine and what is yours is subject to my regulation. I do not agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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