do Germany and France live under socialism today?

[BaalChatzaf]

10 hours ago, Wolf DeVoon said:

For the record, I just looked at a pile of data, 2/3 of all government offices and structures are military, about 2 billion sq ft around the world.

It's the other way around with expenditures, 3/4 of all Federal, state, and local ($7 trillion this year) on social welfare and entitlements. So, Greg has half a point about government spending, although he won't want to admit that every dime of his lifelong income was derived from government, one way or another.

 

Some of his income must have been derived from goods he produced (and sold)  or services he has rendered (and for which he was money compensated). In societies with less government or even no government people have traded  goods and services among their fellows by exchanging units of trade (aka money).

[moralist]

12 hours ago, Wolf DeVoon said:

For the record, I just looked at a pile of data, 2/3 of all government offices and structures are military, about 2 billion sq ft around the world.

It's the other way around with expenditures, 3/4 of all Federal, state, and local ($7 trillion this year) on social welfare and entitlements. So, Greg has half a point about government spending, although he won't want to admit that every dime of his lifelong income was derived from government, one way or another.

 

I have a whole point on government spending, Wolf.

The purpose of government has degenerated into transfering wealth from one person to another... all the while skimming hefty fees off the top to perpetuate and to grow the transfer bureaucracy. This third party bureaucracy is the reason why government education, and  government healthcare have become so expensive. A third party is sucking off of every transaction.  This is so only because so many people have degenerated into collectivist babies who need "mommie" to take care of them.

Entitlements are more addictive than cocaine. Once benefits junkies get hooked they feel rightfully entitled to them, and will scream like little babies if they are taken away from them. This is why, when once given, entltlements are very rarely taken away.

Government benefits are an inexorably clicking ratchet which only turns one way. They're even called entitlements because most people feel entitled to them.

What you're actually saying is that every dime of your own income was derived from government, one way or another. It's perfectly normal for you to believe that everyone else is just like you are. Except the reality is that I live by different standards than you do, so my actions are different from yours, and they set into motion different results in my life than yours do in your life.

This difference explains while I was working to build my own Galt's Gulch, you were getting swindled by your own liberal utopian fantasies of feeling entitled to others building Galt's Gulch for you. So quite naturally, the results of my actions are completely different from the results of your own. I have tangible results to show for mine, while you have nothing to show for yours. 

By the objective reality of moral law, the results are perfectly just for both of us. I deserve the results of living by my values by virtue of exactly the same operating principles that you deserve the results of your living by your values..

I know you don't realize this, but you are the reason why all utopias fail. By your own moral failure you got taken by swindlers who live by exactly the same secular libertine standard of values you live by. It's poetic justice.

"The men of intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered: that no man may be smaller than his money."

Greg

[anthony]

19 minutes ago, moralist said:

 

..an inexorably clicking ratchet...

Greg

Great metaphor!

There is a strong case, especially with welfarism and bloated State employment here in SA, for saying that every cent one earns has at some point gone through Government hands.

[moralist]

5 hours ago, anthony said:

Great metaphor!

There is strong case, especially with welfarism here in SA, for saying that every cent one earns has at some point gone through Government hands.

...and from the wealth which passes through government's hands, a fee is extracted to perpetuate and grow the bureaucracy. In this way, the cost of government is built into every product purchased and every service rendered...

...but the government did NOT create that wealth. It can only parasitically FEED on that wealth...

...because parasites have "fundamentally transformed" government into their own image.

Greg

[Peter]

Greg wrote: ...and from the wealth which passes through government's hands, a fee is extracted to perpetuate the government. In this way, the cost of government is built into every product purchased and every service rendered... end quote

As I have mentioned I started getting a magazine called, “Remind” and in every issue they show the average income for a certain year, what basic necessities cost, and what a car cost. Inflation and government spending have robbed us blind, and depleted our life styles. Watch a nostalgia program on meTV, Cozi, INSPIRATION, Antenna TV, Bounce, Escape, LAFF, TV Land, or Heroes and Icons, which are the “old” channels I get on Mediacom cable, and you will see prosperity. They lived well in the good old days, and in many instances the middle class wife does not work, unless she wants to.

I looked to see what was playing on those channels right now. Roseanne, The Virginian, Bonanza, Little House on the Prairie, Mork and Mindy, the movie, Lean on Me, American Justice, House Arrest, and Xena: Warrior Princess. On Cozi at 8 and 9 pm they have two X-Files, various Star Treks on other channels, Rockford Files, and Johnny Carson. Tonight’s guests are Joey Bishop, the late comedian Freddie Prinze, actress Betty Garrett, and artist Ray Johnson. Since Saturday is a lousy day for primetime TV I may watch the X-Files and Johnny Carson.

Peter       

[moralist]

2 hours ago, Peter said:

 Inflation and government spending have robbed us blind, and depleted our life styles.

For me, the only way I found to be able to enjoy my lifestyle by protecting myself from the conundrum you just described... is to be an American Capitalist.  Creating wealth in my own business makes it possible to float above inflation by operating on the production side of the ledger instead of being trapped solely on the consumer side, where as an end user I'd be drowning in inflation without any recourse to balance my losses with gains.

Greg

[Peter]

My father in law owned a country store, bar, and gas station. Fairly typical was a call I got to help him at the store. There was a bad freeze in the north and a truck driver said he would bring potatoes down, if you will buy them at a discount. I helped him unload the truck which was back breaking (50 pound sacks) but we finally got it done, paid the agreed upon price in cash. Then the deep freeze reached us and the potatoes were in an unheated warehouse / garage so some were lost but a tidy profit was still made. He used to get old bread and sell it cheap.

On the same property throughout the years he had a drive in movie white and colored barber shops, (later with no racial designations( about a dozen cabins he rented (they were mostly abandoned trailers and foreclosed cabins from the beach areas,) etc. etc. You name it and he could make a buck off of it.

Sometimes people would come in wanting to pawn things and he had an uncanny ability to avoid stolen goods, but the state and county troopers would still come into his store and he would allow them to view what he had bought without any paperwork.

Peter

[moralist]

8 hours ago, Peter said:

You name it and he could make a buck off of it.

You have just succinctly summed up the wealth creating virtue of American Capitalism.

Greg

[Nerian]

Absolutely not. They are mixed economies and very much capitalist in essence. 

[Wolf DeVoon]

Germany: government spending 44% of GDP, electricity costs highest in Europe, state-owned enterprises distort the economy.

 France:   government spending 57% of GDP, labor market burdened with rigid regulations, state dominates major sectors of economy.

[anthony]

13 hours ago, Nerian said:

Absolutely not. They are mixed economies and very much capitalist in essence. 

No - consequentialist, utilitarian. "It works" to keep private enterprise alive and kicking, only enough to sustain Socialist policies.

[BaalChatzaf]

On 5/31/2017 at 1:03 AM, Wolf DeVoon said:

Just two or three. Vatican City, Mecca, West 57th Street.

what is located at West  57 th Street?

[Wolf DeVoon]

9 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said:

what is located at West  57 th Street?

CBS

[BaalChatzaf]

7 minutes ago, Wolf DeVoon said:

CBS

You are right.  Nuking West 57 th St would be a Black Day for Black Rock. 

[Brant Gaede]

12 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said:

what is located at West  57 th Street?

The Russian Tea Room?

The Hammer Gallery?

--Brant

jus' funnin'

[Brant Gaede]

2 hours ago, Wolf DeVoon said:

CBS

As if CBS mattered anymore.

--Brant

[Wolf DeVoon]

25 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

As if CBS mattered anymore.

--Brant

I'm such a dinosaur.

[BaalChatzaf]

8 hours ago, Wolf DeVoon said:

I'm such a dinosaur.

De Voonasauraus Rex

[Peter]

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 9:10 AM, anthony said:

No - consequentialist, utilitarian. "It works" to keep private enterprise alive and kicking, only enough to sustain Socialist policies.

I like Adam Reed’s term, “klepto-conservative” to describe the direction America has been going to mimic Singapore, Russian, and China. That course has been blunted but not reversed as of yet with Donald Trump as our President.

[Peter]

Not much traffic about opera or Broadway. Here is one of my favorites.

'Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again' - Sarah Brightman | The Phantom of The Opera. Songwriters: ANDREW LLOYD WEBBER, CHARLES HART, RICHARD STILGOE
 

[BaalChatzaf]

On 2/3/2017 at 12:39 AM, Arkadi said:

studiodekadent: "this really doesn't differ substantially from economic fascism"--so "Social Democracies/Mixed Economies/Regulated Market Economies"= "economic fascism," and this is, according to you, the current regime in Germany and France?

regardless of political and philosophical labeling the underlying reality is a mix of market economics,  welfare (i.e. redistribution), subsidies and regulation.  This is the prevailing model of all of the present industrial economies with perhaps the exception of North Korea and the family run and owned islamic  states.  If look at this situation with a Darwinian view, it would appear that the mixed economy is the model that survived.  Even the one time very collectivist Chinese system has modified its operation to conform with the mixed-economy model.  What works survives.  What does not work fades or perishes. 

[Peter]

Then tribal chiefs and later, dynasties and monarchies, must be the Darwinian model. 

[BaalChatzaf]

On 2/19/2018 at 3:39 PM, Peter said:

Then tribal chiefs and later, dynasties and monarchies, must be the Darwinian model. 

At an earlier stage of human development they had their moment. Unfortunately for the world the major religions  developed during the age of kings and tribal chiefs.  This view of authority is frozen into the Abrahamic  Religions.  God is conceived of as a king or war chief. Democracies and republics  flourished at a later time are the politics are somewhat in opposition to the religions.

 

[Peter]

In France, there is a knock off (Bernie Sanders, Cortez, Beto, Julian Castro, etc.,) movement that has had sometimes violent protests every day for well over a month. They want these platitudes: Economic justice. More equitable taxation. Lower fuel taxes. Reintroduction of the solidarity tax on wealth. A minimum wage increase. I have no doubt that they passionately want a STRONG leader who, if needed, will assume dictatorial powers on their behalf: For the sick. For he puppies. For the children. And to steal from the rich. Sob. Peter   

From Wikipedia: The yellow vests movement or yellow jackets movement (French: Mouvement des gilets jaunes, pronounced [muvmɑ̃ de ʒilɛ ʒon]) is a populist, grassroots political movement for economic justice that began in France in November 2018. After an online petition posted in May had attracted nearly a million signatures, mass demonstrations began on 17 November. The movement is motivated by rising fuel prices, high cost of living, and claims that a disproportionate burden of the government's tax reforms were falling on the working and middle classes, especially in rural and peri-urban areas. The protesters have called for lower fuel taxes, reintroduction of the solidarity tax on wealth, a minimum wage increase, the implementation of Citizens' initiative referendums and Emmanuel Macron's resignation as President of France and his government. The movement spans the political spectrum. According to one poll, few of those protesting had voted for Macron in the 2017 French presidential election, and many had either not voted, or had voted for far-right or far-left candidates.
Rising fuel prices initially sparked the demonstrations, and yellow high-visibility vests, which French law required all drivers to have in their vehicles and to wear during emergencies, were chosen as "a unifying thread and call to arms" because of their convenience, visibility, ubiquity, and association with working-class industries. The protests have involved demonstrations and the blocking of roads and fuel depots. Some of the protests developed into major riots, described as the most violent since those of May 1968 and the police response, resulting in multiple incidences of loss of limb has been criticised by international media.
Since the French yellow vests or Gilets jaunes movement has gained international attention, protesters—some with similar grievances and others entirely unrelated—have used the yellow vest sym…