What About Bill Cosby?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

That doesn't even make any sense. Even if they're lying you don't know that they're lying, so the fact of your doubt is not evidence. Unless you know that they are lying for some other reason, in which case you wouldn't have to doubt because you would know.

Heh.

It doesn't make sense when I use this standard, but it makes perfect sense when you use it, especially because, I mean, let's get real.

Right...

Michael

[Gary Fisher]

It doesn't make sense when I use this standard, but it makes perfect sense when you use it, especially because, I mean, let's get real.

We're not using the same "standard". Not by a long shot. My reasoning makes sense. Yours doesn't.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

It doesn't make sense when I use this standard, but it makes perfect sense when you use it, especially because, I mean, let's get real.

We're not using the same "standard". Not by a long shot. My reasoning makes sense. Yours doesn't.

That's an opinion, I suppose.

You reasoning. A bunch of women accuse a man. That's your standard of proof. That makes sense to you.

My reasoning. Let me do it, too. A bunch of people say the women are lying. That's the same standard of proof: a bunch of people say. That doesn't make sense to you.

Whatever your values are they are not rational. And they are a double standard. You can do it but others can't.

I believe there are words for that.

Now let's get real for real.

"A bunch of people say" is not a standard of proof for "let's get real." Reality demands more than that. A mob is not a replacement for reason.

Ever.

Like I said, I think you are on a moral crusade to feel righteous from media-raping Cosby while the thing is hot.

So enjoy the media-rape. If raping is your thing, media-raping that is, this one promises to be a good show.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

Gary, you should watch the 1936 film Fury staring Spencer Tracy as a man who was attacked by a lynch mob. It was directed by Fritz Lang (and one of Ayn Rand's favorites).

--Brant

it's so obvious Crosby is being media-lynched I feel flummoxed having to point it out (he's dead but left hanging--by that I mean he'll never recover from this but they won't stop until they get tired of throwing stuff at him)

if he's innocent he should settle no lawsuits and use his wealth to vigorously defend himself in court--a settlement would be a confession of guilt in such a case and would be taken as such--just because they lynch you doesn't mean you didn't do the crime

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Brant,

Once the dust dies down on this, regardless of the outcome, I might analyze it through the lens of core story.

I think a masterpiece of propaganda manipulation is taking place right before our eyes. Either that, or 'throw enough mud on the wall and some of it will stick and start anchoring more mud, so keep throwing' is the publicity principle.

But this feels studied and orchestrated to me.

All you have to do with a core story is find the right point in it, the issue everybody accepts as true even though they know it's nothing but faith--then shove it where you want it to go. The mob will do the rest. (It's a little more complicated than that, but that's the broad outline of how it works.)

For example, Europe had a core story about Jews leading up to WWII. Guess who knew how to tap into that one--and shove hard--based on "a bunch of people say"?

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

Michael, WWII pretty much destroyed the pre-war American public anti-Semitism such as my own father's, and pre-war and war anti-Japanese bigotry--we beat them so bad we had to make up for it with friendship. (My uncle had a Japanese girl-friend when he was navigating a B-29 over Korea--seemingly real South Pacific stuff: he left her crying on the dock.) That left one real big biggie--racism against the blacks. (There was also anti-American Indian racism most reflected in the movies. When that went most westerns died for loss of acceptable villains [if only they had been Jew-murdering Nazis], although they are still blessed by the curse of Federal paternalism which has always been the chief continuous method of their subjugation now being done to almost all Americans generally. This particular racism was well mixed with admiration of them as worthy foes requiring a cavalry charge by the US army with them as half-naked Adonises although frequently played by deeply browned-up white men.)

--Brant

[Gary Fisher]

You reasoning. A bunch of women accuse a man. That's your standard of proof. That makes sense to you. My reasoning. Let me do it, too. A bunch of people say the women are lying. That's the same standard of proof: a bunch of people say. That doesn't make sense to you.

It's not at all the same thing and I just explained why. My "standard" is not "a bunch of people say". If Cosby did rape several women, then it is very likely that they would all accuse him of such. If he didn't rape any of them, then it is very unlikely that ANY of them would have accused him of anything.Let's look at the other side of this. If the women are lying, then people who don't know the truth will doubt their story. On the other hand, if they're telling the truth, then people will still doubt them because they still don't know. So the fact that there are people who are doubting their story tells us absolutely nothing about whether or not they are lying. All that we know from that is that there are a whole bunch of people who either don't know what really happened or refuse to see what's right in front of them.Michael, you still don't have an answer to my objection that if the women are lying, then they are opening themselves up to suits for libel and slander, and if it did come down to a court case they would either have to back down or perjure themselves.If he's innocent, all Cosby has to do to clear his name is to file a lawsuit against any one of his accusers. The rest would get the message. This brings me to:@Brant

if he's innocent he should settle no lawsuits and use his wealth to vigorously defend himself in court--a settlement would be a confession of guilt in such a case and would be taken as such--just because they lynch you doesn't mean you didn't do the crime

There was a case a few years ago where Cosby was accused of rape and there was to be a trial in which the prosecution had thirteen witnesses against him. Thirteen. Guess what? He chose to settle out of court, because he knows he's guilty.

[Brant Gaede]

There was a case a few years ago where Cosby was accused of rape and there was to be a trial in which the prosecution had thirteen witnesses against him. Thirteen. Guess what? He chose to settle out of court, because he knows he's guilty.

Nope. It might have been because the trial would have constituted a lynching in itself. Now that we've had the lynching the trial wouldn't matter. Crosby is already all but a completely destroyed person. You talk of rape and I talk of lynching. That's the argument, but that actually makes it a non-argument. We're arguing about whether we're having an argument.

If I had been Crosby back then and innocent I'd have settled too. My career was as a public figure. Note he preserved his public stature. I am not saying he was innocent, however! For the guilty man would have done the same or been a fool. (Did it ever even go to a Grand Jury?)

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

Michael, you still don't have an answer to my objection that if the women are lying, then they are opening themselves up to suits for libel and slander, and if it did come down to a court case they would either have to back down or perjure themselves.

If he's innocent, all Cosby has to do to clear his name is to file a lawsuit against any one of his accusers. The rest would get the message.

Okay, I'll do it. Multi-millionaire sues his alleged rape victim who comparatively has no money and wins, shovelling more shit into the situation. Millionaire goes to collect. His "victim" declares bankruptcy. Bottom line, Crosby loses. She won't even have to appear in court, making it a little less bad for him, but the alleged rapist is now also a bully in another way.

Go find a lawyer who'll take it on a contingency on behalf of Crosby. No such animal unless he wants the publicity for he's not getting any money. After a few trials the public gets bored and the women keep getting sued and win or lose in court Crosby loses, they don't.

If you think winning a lawsuit will wipe the mud off Crosby you're delusional. It'd just be mo mud, mo mud and mo mud. Guilt or innocence is irrelevant.

--Brant

[Gary Fisher]

@Brant

You're looking at it the wrong way. The women, if Cosby is innocent, would know that they would lose the court case if Cosby decided to take them to court for libel and slander. That's why they wouldn't accuse him of anything if he isn't actually guilty.

[Jules Troy]

Afraid to have my kid hang out with BILL COSBY??!!

You're a special kind of stupid aren't ya...

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

If you think winning a lawsuit will wipe the mud off Crosby you're delusional.

Brant,

I contend he is not delusional.

I thought he was at first when he started saying A was not A.

For example, this gem right above: "My 'standard' is not 'a bunch of people say'. If Cosby did rape several women, then it is very likely that they would all accuse him of such. If he didn't rape any of them, then it is very unlikely that ANY of them would have accused him of anything."

In other words, his standard is not 'a bunch of people say.' Why? Because, when you boil it down, a bunch of people say.

It takes a special epistemology to make a blank-out and contradiction of that nature and actually believe it. But delusion is too simplistic. This is widespread in our modern culture.

Now I contend he blanks out arguments and contexts because he likes media-rape.

He likes being in the mob during a lynching.

Media-rape is fun and fits the core story (especially the part where the shining knight trounces the powerful in their victimization of the downtrodden).

Facts are not fun and they threaten the core story.

Reason be damned. Media-rape gives him a moral buzz. He knows he's not the shining knight, but he can help the shining knight. And man does that feel good.

Too bad the people who follow this story can't get there without a mob to do their dirty work.

And, of course, a black man hanging by the neck from a tree in their wake...

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

@Brant You're looking at it the wrong way. The women, if Cosby is innocent, would know that they would lose the court case if Cosby decided to take them to court for libel and slander. That's why they wouldn't accuse him of anything if he isn't actually guilty.

A key here is how long ago is the latest rape supposed to have taken place? Ideas about what is acceptable and not acceptable sexual behavior have tightened up. Howard Roark wasn't a rapist (1943) to "If it was rape it was rape by engraved invitation" (Rand) to today: it was rape.

The locus of my focus is a lynching and yours is raping. Qua rapist I could give a shit about Crosby. Qua lynching, I have a concern about lynchers. Who are they coming after next? Is this all a part of the feminist war on men--you should have seen them in the 1970s!--or the liberal elites' war on American (stupid) hoi polloi--or both--or WTF is going on just beneath the surface? These elites are American piranhas feeding on any obstructing target they can get their teeth into or any which benefits their cultural fascism. Keep your head down or it gets chopped off. It might be chopped off anyway so live in fear. A guy tried to kidnap and rape me in college out of a party. I cut him. Women need to pack more heat and be prepared to use it. (When you need help it's only 20 years away.)

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

If you think winning a lawsuit will wipe the mud off Crosby you're delusional.

Brant,

I contend he is not delusional.

I thought he was at first when he started saying A was not A.

For example, this gem right above: "My 'standard' is not 'a bunch of people say'. If Cosby did rape several women, then it is very likely that they would all accuse him of such. If he didn't rape any of them, then it is very unlikely that ANY of them would have accused him of anything."

In other words, his standard is not 'a bunch of people say.' Why? Because, when you boil it down, a bunch of people say.

It takes a special epistemology to make a blank-out and contradiction of that nature and actually believe it. But delusion is too simplistic. This is widespread in our modern culture.

Now I contend he blanks out arguments and contexts because he likes media-rape.

He likes being in the mob during a lynching.

Media-rape is fun and fits the core story (especially the part where the shining knight trounces the powerful in their victimization of the downtrodden).

Facts are not fun and they threaten the core story.

Reason be damned. Media-rape gives him a moral buzz. He knows he's not the shining knight, but he can help the shining knight. And man does that feel good.

Too bad the people who follow this story can't get there without a mob to do their dirty work.

And, of course, a black man hanging by the neck from a tree in their wake...

Michael

Michael, I don't tend to do the motivational thing too much here on OL, not that I'm all beyond it. I don't naturally think like a novelist, but I might write a novel. I'm not saying you should can it, but it tends to can posters out of here. I don't care about the size of the audience, but I like to do a lot of reactive postings. I stopped reacting to Greg; it only left me hungry; I threw in the towel.

--Brant

if I drive off OL posters it's not by your way--we may be giving them a one-two, however; I seem to cap off a lot of threads but haven't added up any numbers--it may be that that's only from my posting a lot, not my scintillating brilliance blotting out their suns

[Jules Troy]

And why are all these self righteous feminazis all so strangely silent when it comes to public outcry over that girl in Iran that was hung for DEFENDING herself against a rapist in the act of trying to rape her? She stabbed him in self defence. He got what he deserved. She did not..

[Brant Gaede]

Afraid to have my kid hang out with BILL COSBY??!!

You're a special kind of stupid aren't ya...

?

I never much liked Crosby, why would I let my kids hang with him regardless? I can't figure out what and who you're responding to Jules. Here are some of the celebrities I know and interact with I'd let my kids--I have no kids--"hang" with: Jack Wheeler and Durk Pearson (and his Sandy Shaw). If Michael Jackson were alive? Nope. No Michael Jackson.

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

This quote from All The King's Men by Robert Penn Warren keeps haunting me:

... they don't give a damn about that. Hell, make 'em cry, make 'em laugh, make 'em think you're their weak erring pal, or make 'em think you're God-Almighty. Or make 'em mad. Even mad at you. Just stir 'em up, it doesn't matter how or why, and they'll love you and come back for more. Pinch 'em in the soft place. They aren't alive, most of 'em, and haven't been alive in twenty years. Hell, their wives have lost their teeth and their shape, and likker won't set on their stomachs, and they don't believe in God, so it's up to you to give 'em something to stir 'em up and make 'em feel alive again. Just for half an hour. That's what they come for. Tell 'em anything. But for Sweet Jesus' sake don't try to improve their minds.

That sounds about right for the media-rape.

Michael

[Gary Fisher]

I never much liked Crosby, why would I let my kids hang with him regardless? I can't figure out what and who you're responding to Jules. Here are some of the celebrities I know and interact with I'd let my kids--I have no kids--"hang" with: Jack Wheeler and Durk Pearson (and his Sandy Shaw). If Michael Jackson were alive? Nope. No Michael Jackson.

Oh come on, don't tell me you actually hopped on board with the media rape train against Michael Jackson? All the "evidence" against him was just a bunch of little kids saying he diddled them, but you can clearly tell they were paid off by the Reptilians who are trying to do NWO.

Michael Jackson was so saintly that God would let him give baby Jesus a bottle of Myrh and not have to ask what else was in it.

[Brant Gaede]

I never much liked Crosby, why would I let my kids hang with him regardless? I can't figure out what and who you're responding to Jules. Here are some of the celebrities I know and interact with I'd let my kids--I have no kids--"hang" with: Jack Wheeler and Durk Pearson (and his Sandy Shaw). If Michael Jackson were alive? Nope. No Michael Jackson.

Oh come on, don't tell me you actually hopped on board with the media rape train against Michael Jackson? All the "evidence" against him was just a bunch of little kids saying he diddled them, but you can clearly tell they were paid off by the Reptilians who are trying to do NWO.

Michael Jackson was so saintly that God would let him give baby Jesus a bottle of Myrh and not have to ask what else was in it.

Very clever. But I see your sleight of hand. No, I didn't jump onto "the media rape train against Michael Jackson." He very, very likely molested boys. He raped them too? So, one lynching deserves another? I certainly admit that in both cases it could be that what goes around comes around, that both Crosby and Jackson deserved what they got.

I'm interested in the lynching aspect and you in the raping, but you can't get there from where you are, even if you take the road through Jackson.

--Brant

must be galling

[Selene]

@Michael

You do realize that they would be slandering and libeling him and could face serious charges if they're just making it up? If I were Bill Cosby and if I were actually innocent, I would come down on these charges with everything I have. Lawsuits left and right.

You are quiite ignorant of both libel and slander concepts in law.

Yeah... it's a conspiracy by the Clintons... Right.... The far simpler explanation is that Bill Cosby is a rapist.

And there is no one as simple as you are.

A...

[Jules Troy]

Brant I was referring to Gary.

[Brant Gaede]

Brant I was referring to Gary.

I knew it really wasn't me* but I couldn't match your comment up.

--Brant

*after all, I'm sooo smart every time I look in the mirror my IQ goes up thirty points**

**I need to be reminded***

***the glory that was my brain****

****when Greg told me I wasn't my brain I was crushed*****

*****all I have left is nostalgia--that's what the mirror's for (it's hard to type my posts while looking in the mirror, but if I don't they look like this one)

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

To go to the other end of this, here are some things I am going to be on the lookout for over the next couple of weeks:

1. Legal action by Cosby against someone or some organization; and

2. Friends and family coming out and saying this is not the Cosby I know. Things like this: Kathie Lee Gifford on Bill Cosby Allegations: 'I Never Saw It Personally'

I do think he was a womanizer during some phases of his life because of the temptations of his fame. But there's a long distance between sleeping with a lot of different women (while married or not) and being a rapist.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Just for burps and giggles:

Ayn Rand Quotes Are More Despicable Than Bill Cosby Rape Memes?
by J.D. Tuccille
Nov. 24, 2014
Hit and Run blog
Reason

From the article:

Last year, Nick Gillespie clued us in to Forever 21's "Unstoppable Muscle Tee," which allowed purchasers to boast to the world with (a variant of) Ayn Rand's words: "The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me."

That shirt may have hit a chord, because it's sold out...

. . .

... "Ayn Rand, misquoted as a feminist, now featured on belly t-shirts for teenage girls" [is] more highbrow, but also more despicable, than "Bill Cosby rape-as-meme," referring to graphics passing through social media referencing the controversy-dogged funnyman who faces a laundry list of accusations of very bad behavior.

It sure is odd to see those two names and contexts paired.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I might be wrong, but the way I read the following article is payback and a warning, not from Cosby, but from folks who have a lot of power and are pissed about the media campaign against Cosby by others folks who have a lot of power.

Dem fundraiser charged with child sex abuse met Obama often, flew on Air Force One

I suspect there are a lot of cards in the deck, too.

If neither side blinks, I predict we are in for quite a media show.

Assuming I'm not wrong...

Michael