Jules Troy Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Tell that to Robin Williiams or the soldiers suffering PTSD that dilution of pain "wouldn't help".For that matter why does a Dr. Jack up a trauma victim on morphine after a car accident? Oh yea pain dilution to levels bearable to the victim so he doesn't fucking flatline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Tell that to Robin Williiams or the soldiers suffering PTSD that dilution of pain "wouldn't help".For that matter why does a Dr. Jack up a trauma victim on morphine after a car accident? Oh yea pain dilution to levels bearable to the victim so he doesn't fucking flatline.Good point.Drug induced ccma, ring some bells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 On another note these polls are unsettling.http://www.vox.com/2014/8/26/6067123/isis-poll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 For the reader who is wise (meaning most OL readers),We know that Sufi story was not about pain...But it did deal with darkness... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 9. Muslims save Bradford synagogue in the UKFor years, the Jews and Muslims of Bradford (UK) have lived near each other but without interacting much. While the city is nearly 20 percent Muslim, there is only one synagogue remaining in the city, and at 130 years old was in a state of disrepair, endangering the congregation of 45 families who could not afford repairs. Once the synagogues Muslim neighbors found out, however, several of them stepped up to donate the funds required. It was a challenge which didnt take us long to decide on, said Zulfi Karim, secretary of Bradford Council for Mosques. The goodwill sparked continued interaction between the communities, with members of each house of worship visiting each other for the first time in living memory and the communities co-sponsoring street fairs and philanthropic projects. When I met Rudi [Leavor, the 87-year-old chairman of the synagogue], I felt like he was my father, or grandfather, Karim says. If he were an elder in my community, I would be there for him in his time of need. So I felt well, its my obligation to help him as if he were a member of my own family. (This story mirrors a similar 2012 Good News story that took place in New York City.)- See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/altmuslim/2014/01/year-in-review-top-ten-good-muslim-news-stories-of-2013/#sthash.Os5oev0N.dpufFrom this article here:http://www.patheos.com/blogs/altmuslim/2014/01/year-in-review-top-ten-good-muslim-news-stories-of-2013/As an aside one of the stories I did not agree with. The one were the store lost against the right of the employee to wear her hijab at work.There is a REASON the state and religion is separate. It is my believe that religion should be a private matter. If your employer has a dress code you follow it. This is were shitty cultural traditions have no place. In the work place. Follow your mystical stupid traditions in the privacy of your own home, regardless of your religion. As an atheist it is offensive to me but but I don't go around with it stamped on my forehead. Not out of fear, but simple respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wiig Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I ran into that parable a good 20 or so years ago. It doesn't conform to life. It doesn't matter how broad your worldview is, some things can cause the most intense emotional pain. I don't see the value of trying to dilute it as opposed to dealing with it. And diluting it is not a way of "dealing with it?"It can be seen that way I guess, but that isn't the way I saw it. My point was that it doesn't matter how great a lake you are, emotional or psychological pain can be intense and hit at any time. In regards to Robin Williams and his depression, if its a chemical imbalance, then nothing can be done other than trying to achieve the right combination of chemicals. If the pain is the consequence of the loss of a great value, or the belief that a great value has been lost, or is unachievable, so life therefore feels hopeless, then it can only be properly dealt with by dealing with the problem that's causing the pain, and that requires the opposite of burying it in a great lake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 ...life therefore feels hopeless, then it can only be properly dealt with by dealing with the problem that's causing the pain, and that requires the opposite of burying it in a great lake.Geez, please look at what you just did...No one...let me repeat, no one said anything about "burying," "avoiding," or, "not dealing with something."Tell you can see that.A...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I ran into that parable a good 20 or so years ago. It doesn't conform to life. It doesn't matter how broad your worldview is, some things can cause the most intense emotional pain. I don't see the value of trying to dilute it as opposed to dealing with it.And diluting it is not a way of "dealing with it?"Hey. If one thing doesn't work, try another.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 He who stands on toilet."High on pot". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Jules,That is a cool story. If you allow yourself to see wisdom wherever it may be found and not become kneejerk poisoned by the word Islam (like some around here would have it), you might like the Sufi teaching stories. These charming little tales work to prompt thinking more than to act like moral propaganda. I happen to like them. I admit, I only read one once in a while, but they always make me promise myself to read more.Below is a cute little story I got from here: 10 Sufi Stories.The Sun and the CaveOne day the sun and a cave struck up a conversation. The sun had trouble understanding what “dark” and “dank” meant and the cave didn't quite get the hang of “light and clear” so they decided to change places. The cave went up to the sun and said, “Ah, I see, this is beyond wonderful. Now come down and see where I have been living.” The sun went down to the cave and said, “Gee, I don’t see any difference.”To me, certain people are caves who have yet to go up to where the sun is. All they know is dark and dank, but they do have the capacity to see.MichaelWhat I noticed in that beautiful story is that the there was no difference to the Sun because light is always right there inside it no matter where it is."No matter where you go... there you are. "--Confucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I ran into that parable a good 20 or so years ago. It doesn't conform to life. It doesn't matter how broad your worldview is, some things can cause the most intense emotional pain. I don't see the value of trying to dilute it as opposed to dealing with it.I think the idea is not to seek to dilute pain as an end in itself but to become larger than pain......either that or just go and inflict more pain on others! Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 This is the thing about this story I posted. It can be accepted by people of all beliefs. Imagine the effect this one story could for example effect upon behaviour by muslims! If after thier praying ended 5x a day this one story was told 5X a day after that prayer session. It could be a method of replacing violent urges to react to anger, darkness, fear and pain with a better way of reacting to " the bitter taste of salt in a small glass of water". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 This is the thing about this story I posted. It can be accepted by people of all beliefs. Imagine the effect this one story could for example effect upon behaviour by muslims! If after thier praying ended 5x a day this one story was told 5X a day after that prayer session. It could be a method of replacing violent urges to react to anger, darkness, fear and pain with a better way of reacting to " the bitter taste of salt in a small glass of water".I totally agree.Moral wisdom is universal. It transcendentally crosses the borders of all cultures. But it's completely useless to people who don't make the free choice within themselves to welcome it into their lives... because it never intrudes where it is not respected.Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wiig Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 ...life therefore feels hopeless, then it can only be properly dealt with by dealing with the problem that's causing the pain, and that requires the opposite of burying it in a great lake.Geez, please look at what you just did...No one...let me repeat, no one said anything about "burying," "avoiding," or, "not dealing with something."Tell you can see that.A......Maybe I just didn't get it. I find the whole thing wanting. Pain over what? Complaints about what? Making your feelings less potent for what?I think there's much more power in Monty Pythons "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Context is everything. This is like the story about how small we are in relation to the universe. A microbe on a speck of dust circling a star in a galaxy with 100 billion other stars which is only one of 100 billion galaxies. How small your petty little problems look. Peace be with you brother...unless you're about to be run over by a truck. Yeah, better pay attention to this petty little problem, space out later. A perspective that motivates you to act is good. Being motivated to not act is useful only if you're getting ready to go to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Context is everything. This is like the story about how small we are in relation to the universe. A microbe on a speck of dust circling a star in a galaxy with 100 billion other stars which is only one of 100 billion galaxies. How small your petty little problems look. Peace be with you brother...unless you're about to be run over by a truck. Yeah, better pay attention to this petty little problem, space out later. A perspective that motivates you to act is good. Being motivated to not act is useful only if you're getting ready to go to sleep."How small your petty little problems look" contains the question, "Looks to whom?" There's nothing in the universe that isn't small to the universe, but the universe is just a conglomeration of all those little things. How big you are is in your head. How small is in your body. Try the experience of a horrible grief--not recommended--what's small about that? (Never mind the zen master whispering in your ear over your shoulder about "small." Fuck him!)--Brant~master of the universe~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wiig Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 And they have not much more potency in living their own lives. A religion of "submission" is a religion of subjugation, of oneself and others. Praying five times a day pushes "God" in and you out. Progress too. A productive and creative mind needs time to itself--a lot of time.Brant,You have hit on what I believe is the core mind-control influence of Islam. Not that garbage of cherry-picking verses as if a verse has puppetmaster-like powers over large groups of people. You have the five prayers, among other things, and then you have the mainstream teachings to fill the susceptible mind. The Islamic State followers don't have their minds filled with cherry picked verses. They have their minds filled with core tenets of Islam. They take the teachings and example of their prophet far too seriously to cherry pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 And they have not much more potency in living their own lives. A religion of "submission" is a religion of subjugation, of oneself and others. Praying five times a day pushes "God" in and you out. Progress too. A productive and creative mind needs time to itself--a lot of time.Brant,You have hit on what I believe is the core mind-control influence of Islam. Not that garbage of cherry-picking verses as if a verse has puppetmaster-like powers over large groups of people.You have the five prayers, among other things, and then you have the mainstream teachings to fill the susceptible mind. The Islamic State followers don't have their minds filled with cherry picked verses. They have their minds filled with core tenets of Islam. They take the teachings and example of their prophet far too seriously to cherry pick.Beware of the non-expert experts, including me.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wiig Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Beware of the non-expert experts, including me.--BrantIf they have cherry picked, as some people claim, then it is easily shown, however, those who make the claim never show it. They merely claim it and from then on it is supposed to be a done deal. When you examine what Mohammedans use to justify their actions though, you find that they aren't taking anything out of context. They are referencing not you, or me, to justify their actions. They are looking to the great Scholars who have devoted their whole life and being, past and present, to the study of Islam, not primarily to justify their actions, but to direct their actions. The only verses I have ever been shown to be taken out of context are the verses that apologists for Islam constantly regurgitate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted September 6, 2014 Author Share Posted September 6, 2014 Beware of the non-expert experts, including me.Brant,I do, especially non-expert experts on Islamic culture, but I still give you a pass.God help me, I don't know why...Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Beware of the non-expert experts, including me.Brant,I do, especially non-expert experts on Islamic culture, but I still give you a pass.God help me, I don't know why... MichaelThere are various Muslim sects that are quite peaceful. Why aren't 1.2 billion Muslims coming at us? --Brantyou're just hedging in case I convert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Convert from AC to DC? Covert to solar? I'm confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Convert from AC to DC?Covert to solar?I'm confused...To the one true religion.--Brant(studying the virgins in heaven catalog) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Convert from AC to DC? Covert to solar? I'm confused... To the one true religion. --Brant (studying the virgins in heaven catalog) I heard the redhead # 44 is extra talented. She can even play the banjo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wiig Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Beware of the non-expert experts, including me.Brant,I do, especially non-expert experts on Islamic culture, but I still give you a pass.God help me, I don't know why... MichaelThere are various Muslim sects that are quite peaceful. Why aren't 1.2 billion Muslims coming at us?--Brantyou're just hedging in case I convertDoes Islamic law say that all Muslims should come at us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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