http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/1...skull_vote.html

Howard Stern sends out people to poll Obama voters in Harlem, attributing all of McCain's positions to Obama. Those questioned didn't seem to recognize that positions such as being pro life and finishing the war in Iraq were the exact opposite of Obama's actual positions. And they all still support Obama.

Barbara

It's also posted here:

http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/in...ic=6138&hl=

I'm thinking — as The American Thinker, infested with neoconartists, is not wont to actually do — that "numbskull" is very likely being used as a euphemism here. By sadly-fallen insipid media stunt player Howard Stern, by smear artist Glenn Reynolds (the credited "instapundit"), by writer Rosslyn Smith, by ... well, we'll just leave it at "others."

A euphemism for an adjective that begins with the same letter. Followed by a vowel, a consonant (twice), another vowel, and an "R."

Not very becoming usage.

Oh, and is anybody going to try the flip side of this stunt with, say, folks on the streets of Charleston, West Virginia? Mostly of ... lighter hues? No? That's very telling, innit?

All of this is missing the larger point — as with every such bit of neocon archness or trickery that Barbara patently likes to dig up.

The statisms of McCain and Obama are nearly alike on every issue that actually, materially matters. Abortion, in its genuine magnitude of effect on American lives, is not one of them. Whether "our" imperial troops are merely shifted, or not, from Iraq to Afghanistan/Pakistan is emphatically not one of them.

(Don't insult my intelligence by suggesting they have substantive differences. Not with how both bow to AIPAC. Not with the financial fascism that both voted for twelve days ago.)

It's long been clear to me that it's become difficult for many people to tell the two wings of the statist bird of prey apart. Or that these people have given up on trying to pointlessly invest their time and effort in telling them apart.

Which means, to me, that they're far more likely to have better things to do than to unravel these mass-media-woven, pompous-pundit-tied, government-schooling-reinforced Gordian knots. Small things such as, oh, earning a living, or attempting to do so.

To which I say not "You numbskulls," but "Hello, prudent and sane Americans of Harlem. Bravo e brava."

Don't somebody say you could not go broke under-estimating the intelligence of the American people.

I am going to say the obvious. Poor uneducated people in ghettos who substitute attitude and cool culture for facts are not representative of the majority of Americans.

But still, Stern's thing was pretty funny. I hope those dudes interviewed hear it and get embarrassed enough to start paying attention.

This reminds me a bit of the petition to ban hydrogen dioxide that spoofed nonthinking environmentalists.

Michael

H.L.Mencken, I believe.

Ba'al Chatzaf

It should be obvious that the vast majority of people supporting Obama do so due to blind party affiliation, not issues. (This election will hinge on Republican turn out for McCain, who seems to want to loose, and who looks like he will get what he wants.) If issues mattered, then so would everything Obama has done and stood for. But the fact that he is a "god damn America" racist is seen as something that it is unfair and racist of Ob ama's opponents to mention. Obama is portaying his connections to ACORN as a "distraction." People who will ignore such things don't care about issues, they care about Us vs Them affiliation. Obama is "Us" they think. This is just like the hysterical pro-Clinton support among gays before his '92 election. Even after "don't ask don't tell" which was a total Clinton sell-out betrayal his support among gays stayed ridicuolously high - it was Republicans, they said, who made him do it.

As for:

how very enlightened this must make you feel. You can imagine that there must be what, some white racists or idiots somewhere? Well of course. But taking joy in the fact that you can find racists among whites is in itself a rather petty and racist attitude. The real "flip side" would be to interview upper-class Democrats and see if their attitudes are just as ignorant as the lower class Democrats one most conveniently can find in Harlem, if one works at a radio station in midtown, not to attribute political ignorance to mere skin color as you have.

How much do you know about Charleston? Have you ever been there?

I am in Harlem right now.

I was suggesting a part of the country that wasn't too dissimilar to Harlem (I've visited both, by the way) in its economic distress, its deficiencies in education, its feelings of hopelessness amidst a spastic economy. And — yes — the predominance of one faction or another of the Statist Party, and one form or another of melanin in the epidermis.

They're both disasters created by massive statism. Neither has an excuse for being so backward, while being so close to natural resource advantages and human potential. (In both cases, for both of these.)

It's also a worthless stunt in both locations. It does nothing to advance intelligent discussion about what matters in our current, nay, eternal statist breakdown.

And the "racism"? That applies, as I obliquely said, to Stern, Reynolds, and on up and down the neocon transmission lines ... as far, and as close, as you may choose to this venue. I don't assume that anybody in Charleston or Harlem is necessarily a racist, of whatever color.

But I'm ready to maintain, upon massive evidence, that neocons go trolling with such bait at the slightest provocation. They do when rationalizing "our" Empire's aggression, after all.

It's done by blithely defining the vast number of those in a Sadr City — who are trying, as desperately as in Harlem and Charleston, to keep their families together and live peacefully — as "Islamofascists" who simply deserve to be indiscriminately slaughtered.

Steve,

Heh.


Double heh.

Been there (Harlem). At night. In areas white dudes should not be in. Several times.

I won't be back.

There's a lot of good people in the ghettos, and it's OK to recognize that, but filth, gangs, violence, racism, drug and alcohol abuse, street prostitution, disease, etc., also run rampant.

I'll take Star the Hater's comments any day over what is found in Harlem. He tells people to get off their butts, study and get out of that mess.

Fortunately I have never been to Charleston. I have no wish to go, either.

Michael

Greybird: "I'm thinking — as The American Thinker, infested with neoconartists, is not wont to actually do — that "numbskull" is very likely being used as a euphemism here. By sadly-fallen insipid media stunt player Howard Stern, by smear artist Glenn Reynolds (the credited "instapundit"), by writer Rosslyn Smith, by ... well, we'll just leave it at 'others.'"

You go too far, Greybird. For a long time, I've put up with the insults -- instead of arguments -- that you hurl my way, assuming that the reality of who I am would one day prevail. Clearly, reality has little effect on you. That you dare to imply that I'm a racist because I disagree with you disgusts me beyond any atrocity you've so far committed. Your attitude is that of a bullying schoolboy who, when he cannot win an argument by rational means, resorts instead to name-calling. I expect your next thoughtful response will be the equivalent of "Sez you!" I would once have said that this sort of behavior was beneath you. I was mistaken.

Barbara

Barbara; I have discovered with certain people on OL that nothing is beneath them.

What the hell does this mean, Michael? This isn't even communication, let alone discussion.

I am asking that you translate. Am I, to you, insincere in what I said? Mendacious? Utterly inaccurate? Something else? Which is it?

And in the second quote, your ellipses only reinforce the fact that you have quoted me out of context.

My fairly straightforward point was the inarguable one that those in Harlem, and in Appalachia, and on the east side of Baghdad are — predominantly — people trying, above all, to live their lives and raise their children in peace. No matter what arch hate-mongering is done by statists, in either foreign or domestic matters, who attempt to rule them.

If you want to discuss this, then please do so forthrightly. Don't shear off nuance and condescend ("It's OK to recognize that") to the rest of us.

Steve,

You sound like an out-of-touch liberal. You're breaking my heart thinking about all those virtuous poor folks.

I, for one, got out of the poorness. I have some sympathy for those who stay in it, but not much. I have no sympathy at all for rosie-colored oversimplifications from middle-class know-it-alls, especially when they are presented in the manner of political agendas.

Just so I am clear, I mean precisely like you did.

Michael

How is that the case? I've not visited Harlem, but probably know more about Charleston than anyone on this board. I've been there plenty of times. I know people from there.

Here's one big difference I can think of. I bet I can go to Charleston right now and find a place where I pump my gas THEN pay for it. Do you think I can find a place like that in Harlem? It's a safe bet that Charleston easily beats any part of New York City in manners and civility.

Charleston is a state capital. Based on that alone, you are bound to find some people who are quite well informed about who is running for office.



I was last in Charleston in 2004. I saw a lovely downtown with quite a few nice restaurants. The downtown is actually nicer than that of Columbus, Ohio.



That's the entire country.



West Virginia actually has one of the highest rates of home ownership of all 50 states. I seriously doubt that this is the case with Harlem.

I will grant that it probably also has one of the lowest rates of cell phone usage. It's a safe bet that at least one third of the population is still living in dial-up hell (Internet access).

It is also the oldest state in the Union now, even older than Florida. The kids leave. My old high school has went from about 1,500 students 20 years ago to about 1,000 now. In some areas, it is much worse than that.

The old folks stick around because it is dirt cheap to live there and the crime rate is quite low. You can still find churches that are unlocked all the time. You can still see kids leaving their bicycles unchained outside of grocery stores.

I know very well that it is a tax hellhole. It's the only state I've lived in that puts a property tax on vehicles. It also has a sales tax on food. It was actually the first state to have a sales tax. Perhaps, most telling is the fact that in most of the 55 counties, the number #1 employer in the county is the county school system.

I think a lot of the problems would vanish if they could simply find a way to build decent roads there. Because of the terrain, a good road costs a fortune to build there.