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galtgulch
Here is a link to comments by Chuck Baldwin, the Constitution Party nominee for President on the current banking credit crisis:

http://www.ronpaul.com/2008-09-27/no-amnes...or-wall-street/

No Amnesty For Wall Street

By admin • September 27, 2008

by Chuck Baldwin

At the time of this writing, the U.S. House and Senate are poised to pass a $700 billion bailout to Wall Street. At the behest of President George W. Bush, the U.S. taxpayers are going to be on the hook for what can only be referred to as the biggest fraud in U.S. history.

Virtually our entire financial system is based on an illusion. We spend more than we earn, we consume more than we produce, we borrow more than we save, and we cling to the fantasy that this can go on forever. The glue that holds this crumbling scheme together is a fiat currency known as the Federal Reserve Note, which was created out of thin air by an international banking cartel called the Federal Reserve.

According to Congressman Ron Paul, in the last three years, the Federal Reserve has created over $4 trillion in new money. The result of all this “money-out-of-thin-air” fraud is never-ending inflation. And the more prices rise, the more the dollar collapses. Folks, this is not sustainable.

Already, Bear Stearns was awarded a $29 billion bailout, followed quickly by the bailout of Freddie and Fannie that will cost the taxpayers up to $200 billion. Then the Fed announced the bailout of AIG to the tune of $85 billion. Mind you, AIG is an enormous global entity with assets totaling more than $1.1 trillion. Moreover, the Feds agreed to pump $180 billion into global money markets. And the Treasury Department promised $50 billion to insure the holdings of money market mutual funds for a year. Now, taxpayers are being asked to provide $700 billion to Wall Street. (I hope readers are aware that, not only will American banks be bailed out, but foreign banks will also be bailed out. Then again, at least half of the Federal Reserve is comprised of foreign banks, anyway.) In other words, the Federal Reserve is preparing to spend upwards of $1 trillion or more. Remember again, this is fiat money, meaning it is money printed out of thin air.

All of this began when the U.S. Congress abrogated its responsibility to maintain sound money principles on behalf of the American people (as required by the Constitution) and created the Federal Reserve. This took place in 1913. The President was Woodrow Wilson. (I strongly encourage readers to buy G. Edward Griffin’s book, The Creature from Jekyll Island.) Since then, the U.S. economy has suffered through one Great Depression and several recessions–all of which have been orchestrated by this international banking cartel. Now, we are facing total economic collapse.

But don’t worry: the international bankers will lose nothing–not even their bonuses. They will maintain their mansions, yachts, private jets, and Swiss bank accounts. No matter how bad it gets on Main Street, the banksters on Wall Street will still have the best of it–President Bush and the Congress will make sure of that. This is one thing Republicans and Democrats can agree on.

America’s founders were rightfully skeptical of granting too much power to bankers. Thomas Jefferson said, “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

Jefferson also believed that “banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.”

Daniel Webster warned, “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring classes of mankind, none has been more effectual than that which deludes them with paper money.”

Webster also said, “We are in danger of being overwhelmed with irredeemable paper, mere paper, representing not gold nor silver; no, Sir, representing nothing but broken promises, bad faith, bankrupt corporations, cheated creditors, and a ruined people.”

Our first and greatest President George Washington said, “Paper money has had the effect in your State [Rhode Island] that it ever will have, to ruin commerce–oppress the honest, and open the door to every species of fraud and injustice.”

If George W. Bush, John McCain, or Barack Obama had any honesty and integrity, they would approach the current banking malady in much the same way that President Andrew Jackson did. In discussing the Bank Renewal bill with a delegation of bankers in 1832, Jackson said, “Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”

What President Andrew Jackson said to the bankers in 1832 is exactly what an American President should say to these criminal international bankers today. But what George Bush, John McCain, and Barack Obama want to do is provide amnesty for the international bankers, just as they want to provide amnesty for illegal aliens. I say, No amnesty for Wall Street, and no amnesty for illegal aliens, either. Instead of sending these banksters on extended vacations to the Bahamas with millions of taxpayer dollars in their pockets, we should be sending them straight to jail!

The only way to fix this economic mess that the international bankers have created is to return America to sound money principles, as prescribed in the U.S. Constitution. This means dismantling the Federal Reserve and the Internal Revenue Service, overturning the 16th Amendment and the personal income tax, and returning the American monetary system to hard assets: gold and silver. Anything short of this will only delay and worsen the inevitable collapse that has already begun.

If you appreciate this column and want to help me distribute these editorial opinions to an ever-growing audience, donations may now be made by credit card, check, or Money Order. Use this link:

http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/donate.php

Disclaimer: I am currently a candidate for President of the United States on the Constitution Party ticket. My official campaign web site is located at: http://www.baldwin08.com/
BaalChatzaf
QUOTE(galtgulch @ Sep 28 2008, 06:05 AM) *
Here is a link to comments by Chuck Baldwin, the Constitution Party nominee for President on the current banking credit crisis:

http://www.ronpaul.com/2008-09-27/no-amnes...or-wall-street/

No Amnesty For Wall Street

By admin • September 27, 2008

by Chuck Baldwin

At the time of this writing, the U.S. House and Senate are poised to pass a $700 billion bailout to Wall Street. At the behest of President George W. Bush, the U.S. taxpayers are going to be on the hook for what can only be referred to as the biggest fraud in U.S. history.

Virtually our entire financial system is based on an illusion. We spend more than we earn, we consume more than we produce, we borrow more than we save, and we cling to the fantasy that this can go on forever. The glue that holds this crumbling scheme together is a fiat currency known as the Federal Reserve Note, which was created out of thin air by an international banking cartel called the Federal Reserve.

According to Congressman Ron Paul, in the last three years, the Federal Reserve has created over $4 trillion in new money. The result of all this “money-out-of-thin-air” fraud is never-ending inflation. And the more prices rise, the more the dollar collapses. Folks, this is not sustainable.

Already, Bear Stearns was awarded a $29 billion bailout, followed quickly by the bailout of Freddie and Fannie that will cost the taxpayers up to $200 billion. Then the Fed announced the bailout of AIG to the tune of $85 billion. Mind you, AIG is an enormous global entity with assets totaling more than $1.1 trillion. Moreover, the Feds agreed to pump $180 billion into global money markets. And the Treasury Department promised $50 billion to insure the holdings of money market mutual funds for a year. Now, taxpayers are being asked to provide $700 billion to Wall Street. (I hope readers are aware that, not only will American banks be bailed out, but foreign banks will also be bailed out. Then again, at least half of the Federal Reserve is comprised of foreign banks, anyway.) In other words, the Federal Reserve is preparing to spend upwards of $1 trillion or more. Remember again, this is fiat money, meaning it is money printed out of thin air.

All of this began when the U.S. Congress abrogated its responsibility to maintain sound money principles on behalf of the American people (as required by the Constitution) and created the Federal Reserve. This took place in 1913. The President was Woodrow Wilson. (I strongly encourage readers to buy G. Edward Griffin’s book, The Creature from Jekyll Island.) Since then, the U.S. economy has suffered through one Great Depression and several recessions–all of which have been orchestrated by this international banking cartel. Now, we are facing total economic collapse.

But don’t worry: the international bankers will lose nothing–not even their bonuses. They will maintain their mansions, yachts, private jets, and Swiss bank accounts. No matter how bad it gets on Main Street, the banksters on Wall Street will still have the best of it–President Bush and the Congress will make sure of that. This is one thing Republicans and Democrats can agree on.

America’s founders were rightfully skeptical of granting too much power to bankers. Thomas Jefferson said, “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

Jefferson also believed that “banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.”

Daniel Webster warned, “Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring classes of mankind, none has been more effectual than that which deludes them with paper money.”

Webster also said, “We are in danger of being overwhelmed with irredeemable paper, mere paper, representing not gold nor silver; no, Sir, representing nothing but broken promises, bad faith, bankrupt corporations, cheated creditors, and a ruined people.”

Our first and greatest President George Washington said, “Paper money has had the effect in your State [Rhode Island] that it ever will have, to ruin commerce–oppress the honest, and open the door to every species of fraud and injustice.”

If George W. Bush, John McCain, or Barack Obama had any honesty and integrity, they would approach the current banking malady in much the same way that President Andrew Jackson did. In discussing the Bank Renewal bill with a delegation of bankers in 1832, Jackson said, “Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”

What President Andrew Jackson said to the bankers in 1832 is exactly what an American President should say to these criminal international bankers today. But what George Bush, John McCain, and Barack Obama want to do is provide amnesty for the international bankers, just as they want to provide amnesty for illegal aliens. I say, No amnesty for Wall Street, and no amnesty for illegal aliens, either. Instead of sending these banksters on extended vacations to the Bahamas with millions of taxpayer dollars in their pockets, we should be sending them straight to jail!

The only way to fix this economic mess that the international bankers have created is to return America to sound money principles, as prescribed in the U.S. Constitution. This means dismantling the Federal Reserve and the Internal Revenue Service, overturning the 16th Amendment and the personal income tax, and returning the American monetary system to hard assets: gold and silver. Anything short of this will only delay and worsen the inevitable collapse that has already begun.

If you appreciate this column and want to help me distribute these editorial opinions to an ever-growing audience, donations may now be made by credit card, check, or Money Order. Use this link:

http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/donate.php

Disclaimer: I am currently a candidate for President of the United States on the Constitution Party ticket. My official campaign web site is located at: http://www.baldwin08.com/


I we were living in a world in which our nation had no serious external enemies, I might go along with "biting the bullet" and suffering the necessary pain of transitioning from a debt based economy to one where we live within our means and our money was sound.

Unfortunately there are nations abroad that would attack and destroy us if they could. If we suddenly removed the debt-money structure that has been part of our economy since 1912 (nearly 100 years) it would partially collapse and our ability to maintain our very expensive armed force would depart. We would be attacked and dismembered.

So a different course must be plotted to get us out of the hole that we have dug (or permitted to be dug) for ourselves for a century (at least). I don't know what that course is, but your proposal under the current circumstances would lead to our swift destruction. Therefore I reject your proposal.

Ba'al Chatzaf


galtgulch


If we were living in a world in which our nation had no serious external enemies, I might go along with "biting the bullet" and suffering the necessary pain of transitioning from a debt based economy to one where we live within our means and our money was sound.

Unfortunately there are nations abroad that would attack and destroy us if they could. If we suddenly removed the debt-money structure that has been part of our economy since 1912 (nearly 100 years) it would partially collapse and our ability to maintain our very expensive armed force would depart. We would be attacked and dismembered.

So a different course must be plotted to get us out of the hole that we have dug (or permitted to be dug) for ourselves for a century (at least). I don't know what that course is, but your proposal under the current circumstances would lead to our swift destruction. Therefore I reject your proposal.

Ba'al Chatzaf
[/quote]

I sympathize with your profound concern for the safety of our country but I do not see an imminent attack from our "enemies." Russia is in no position to initiate an assault on our homeland. China is growing and benefits from trade with us although I don't know what percentage of its revenue comes from trade with the U.S. I don't see that China has any incentive to initiate an assault on the U.S. either. Iran could so easily be obliterated by a handful of bombs which would cost us no loss of life of Americans that for them to even contemplate an assault on the U.S. is nonsense.

The terrorists in sixty countries might try to pull off another 9/11 type attack. Independent cells could detonate a dirty bomb anywhere at any time. The ability of the U.S. F.B.I. to keep track of such given all the surveillance available to them under the Patriot Act would not be altered if banks went bankrupt and were taken over by other banks even in great numbers.

But where I disagree with you even more is your assumption that we would be better off in the long run if the current system of Federal Reserve control of our currency were perpetuated. I should think that the sooner we return to sound money without the Federal Reserve, which all agree has decreased the value of the very dollar it was presumably created to keep stable, the better off we will be in terms of stability of our monetary system.

If there is a "bailout" tomorrow, which is touted as protecting the taxpayer, which is a fraud, the country will be weaker in the future and more vulnerable to the invasions you fear. Although the taxpayer is not being taxed immediately to fund the 700Billion, who do you think is going to be called upon to pay back the loans and the interest on those loans, from the sale of new Treasury Bonds used to raise the 700 B? I expect that some of the debt will be monetized thus some of the interest the taxpayer will be forced to pay will go to the foreigners who buy those auctioned Treasury Bonds and some will go to the Federal Reserve bankers who print up a few tens or hundreds of billions of Federal Reserve Notes!

The sooner the maladjustments of investment are allowed to be liquidated the sooner and easier it will be to return to a semblance of stability and strength. The Bailout will postpone the readjustments and things will only get worse in the years to come.

Where am I wrong in my understanding?

Now I will take a few minutes to email all my representatives and Senators in Washington to vote against the Bailout.

Wm
BaalChatzaf
QUOTE(galtgulch @ Sep 28 2008, 06:05 AM) *
Here is a link to comments by Chuck Baldwin, the Constitution Party nominee for President on the current banking credit crisis:



If George W. Bush, John McCain, or Barack Obama had any honesty and integrity, they would approach the current banking malady in much the same way that President Andrew Jackson did. In discussing the Bank Renewal bill with a delegation of bankers in 1832, Jackson said, “Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”


While Jackson was at it, he should have marched the bankers off to the Oklahoma territory like he did to the Cherokee. Better still, he should have kept the Cherokee at home and marched the bankers off.

Ba'al Chatzaf
Chris Baker
QUOTE(BaalChatzaf @ Sep 28 2008, 07:42 AM) *
Unfortunately there are nations abroad that would attack and destroy us if they could. If we suddenly removed the debt-money structure that has been part of our economy since 1912 (nearly 100 years) it would partially collapse and our ability to maintain our very expensive armed force would depart. We would be attacked and dismembered.


What does holding this belief give you?

And what evidence do you have to support this belief?
BaalChatzaf
QUOTE(Chris Baker @ Sep 30 2008, 09:52 AM) *
QUOTE(BaalChatzaf @ Sep 28 2008, 07:42 AM) *
Unfortunately there are nations abroad that would attack and destroy us if they could. If we suddenly removed the debt-money structure that has been part of our economy since 1912 (nearly 100 years) it would partially collapse and our ability to maintain our very expensive armed force would depart. We would be attacked and dismembered.


What does holding this belief give you?

And what evidence do you have to support this belief?


Evidence: Our military system has been bought and paid for by debt based money since 1940. Every plane and a-bomb has been bought and paid for by our great-grandchildren.

The arms and armies of WW2 were financed by War Bonds which were repaid later in debased currency and checkbook money. I remember, as a kid, filling up a book with coin slots filled with silver dimes to buy a war bond. It was considered the patriotic thing to do at the time. War Bonds were later replaced by Savings Bonds.

Ba'al Chatzaf
Ted Keer
QUOTE(galtgulch @ Sep 28 2008, 12:15 PM) *
Russia is in no position to initiate an assault on our homeland.


??!!!??!!!!??

Ever heard of 9/11? If Af-friggin-ghanistan can host an attack on the US, surely the kgb can.

I know no Catholic with more faith than thee.

You need to switch your meds.
BaalChatzaf
QUOTE(Ted Keer @ Sep 30 2008, 02:49 PM) *
QUOTE(galtgulch @ Sep 28 2008, 12:15 PM) *
Russia is in no position to initiate an assault on our homeland.


??!!!??!!!!??

Ever heard of 9/11? If Af-friggin-ghanistan can host an attack on the US, surely the kgb can.

I know no Catholic with more faith than thee.

You need to switch your meds.


Never rely on a libertarian to assess our military needs correctly. Libertarians have only One Enemy -- The Government. Putin does not even have to get into the fight. He just slips some nukes to the terrorists and they do the fighting and dying. Someone should give Putin a message on the back channel -- if so much as one nuke of Soviet manufacture explodes on our turf, Moscow becomes a solid glass parking lot that glows blue at night.

Ba'al Chatzaf
Chris Baker
QUOTE(BaalChatzaf @ Sep 30 2008, 10:57 AM) *
Evidence: Our military system has been bought and paid for by debt based money since 1940. Every plane and a-bomb has been bought and paid for by our great-grandchildren.

The arms and armies of WW2 were financed by War Bonds which were repaid later in debased currency and checkbook money. I remember, as a kid, filling up a book with coin slots filled with silver dimes to buy a war bond. It was considered the patriotic thing to do at the time. War Bonds were later replaced by Savings Bonds.


Those aren't the beliefs I am talking about.
Chris Baker
QUOTE(Ted Keer @ Sep 30 2008, 01:49 PM) *
Ever heard of 9/11? If Af-friggin-ghanistan can host an attack on the US, surely the kgb can.


Reportedly, all it took was 20 people and about $100,000 to do it. Lots of people have the ability to do it. Most of them, however, do not have the desire nor the will to do it.

Timothy McVeigh killed over 100 people with even less money. And Cho's massacre at Virginia Tech required even less time and less effort. Of course, just like airline passengers, Cho's victims had already been disarmed by their supposed protectors.

Most people most of the time already accept the non-aggression principle. People like McVeigh and Cho are the exception and make up a minority of about that's probably less than 1/1000.

I will never understand the constant terror you feel about the world and the people in it, Ted. While I spend a lot of time worrying about things I can't control, I still do walk around with cash in my pocket. I just don't think about muggers, even though I don't really have any means of self-defense.

I am becoming more and more convinced that the war mongers do not fear that a small minority of people might be out to get them. I am considering the possibility that war mongers really fear that a world of peace and harmony is entirely possible and within their grasp. As long as the war hawks complain about some "evil" people out there, they can feel superior to somebody. They can blame the world's problems on someone else. They don't have to be responsible for what happens.

The mentality of the war hawk is much like that of the person who commits domestic violence. If the abuser hits the spouse or lover, the abuser always cries: "It wasn't my fault. He [she] made me do it." We've heard the exact same cries from someone like George Bush. The abuser fears success and a truly successful relationship.

Chris Baker
QUOTE
Never rely on a libertarian to assess our military needs correctly. Libertarians have only One Enemy -- The Government. Putin does not even have to get into the fight. He just slips some nukes to the terrorists and they do the fighting and dying. Someone should give Putin a message on the back channel -- if so much as one nuke of Soviet manufacture explodes on our turf, Moscow becomes a solid glass parking lot that glows blue at night.

Ba'al Chatzaf


Do you know what I have heard? I have heard a rumor that he is going to send a gang after YOU--JUST YOU. Go into hiding right now. Have plastic surgery, get a new face and a new look. Have your vocal cords surgically altered so you have a new voice. Get a new identity. Go someplace far away like New Zealand or Chile.

The only problem is that Putin may still be able to sick the dogs on you. Perhaps, you could talk to a doctor about changing your smell. If you are a non-smoker, you could change your smell by smoking. And vice versa.

It will be tough to start over. However, I can sense your fear and terror just when you read and hear that name Putin. Once you start your new life, you will be able to sleep calmly and quietly. I wish you the best. I am confident that you can pull it off.
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