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Their Eyes Were Watching God


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#1 Kori

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:36 PM

I just finished re-reading "Their Eyes Were Watching God" by Zora Neale Hurston tonight. Here is a quote that struck me that I thought some of you might appreciate.

"When God had made The Man, he made him out of stuff that sung all the time and glittered all over. Then after that some angels got jealous and chopped him into millions of pieces, but still he glittered and hummed. So they beat him down to nothing but sparks but each little spark had a shine and a song. So they covered each one over with mud. And the lonesomeness in the sparks made them hunt for one another, but the mud is deaf and dumb. Like all the other tumbling mud-balls, Janie had tried to show her shine."

And here's one I like...just for me, I guess.

"They seemed to be staring at the dark, but their eyes were watching God."
"But if you do that you'll be missin' the world, because it doesn't stop turnin' whatever you heard."

#2 Selene

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:46 PM

Beautiful.

Thank you Kori.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#3 Ted Keer

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:52 PM

It's a sentiment out of Sethian Gnosticism.



Confession is always weakness. The grave soul keeps its own secrets, and takes its own punishment in silence.

#4 BaalChatzaf

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 12:52 AM

I don't get it.

Ba'al Chatzaf
אויב מיין באָבע האט בייצים זי וואָלט זיין מיין זיידע

#5 Ted Keer

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 07:28 AM

I don't get it.

Ba'al Chatzaf


First Kipling, now this? How can we help you, Bob?



Confession is always weakness. The grave soul keeps its own secrets, and takes its own punishment in silence.

#6 Selene

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:06 AM

The Sethians were a group of ancient Gnostics who date their existence to before Christianity.[1] Their influence spread throughout the Mediterranean into the later systems of the Basilideans and the Valentinians[citation needed]. Their thinking, though it is predominantly Judaic in foundation, is arguably strongly influenced by Platonism. Sethians are so called for their veneration of the biblical Seth, third son of Adam and Eve, who is depicted in their myths of creation as a divine incarnation; consequently, the offspring or 'posterity' of Seth are held to comprise a superior elect within human society.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#7 BaalChatzaf

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 12:10 PM


I don't get it.

Ba'al Chatzaf


First Kipling, now this? How can we help you, Bob?




With a direct clear explanation.

Ba'al Chatzaf
אויב מיין באָבע האט בייצים זי וואָלט זיין מיין זיידע

#8 PDS

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 12:33 PM

I don't get it either.

#9 Jonathan

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 12:52 PM



I don't get it.

Ba'al Chatzaf


First Kipling, now this? How can we help you, Bob?




With a direct clear explanation.

Ba'al Chatzaf



I'll relay the type of brilliant advice I received on my Physics Question thread: "If you want to join the team then you have to learn to play."

So, what you should do, Bob, is stop your life as it exists right now, and dedicate yourself to becoming a world-class creator in the arts. Instead of asking others about an issue outside of your area of expertise and beyond your understanding, you should invest your entire being into becoming a great artist, and after you've accomplished that, come back to this thread, rephrase your questions in a manner which we connoisseurs of the arts would prefer that you ask them, and maybe then we'll give you answers.

Best,
J

#10 Jerry Biggers

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 01:29 PM

A quick check on wikipedia on "Zora Neal Hurston" and on her novel cited above, shows zero relevance :huh: to the, ah, "usual" topics of discussion on OL (you know, UFOs, Mars, Peikovians, etc.). ;)

Nor any reference to "sethian Gnosticism" re Hurston. :huh:

So,...it must be just a pleasant diversion, no? :rolleyes:

#11 Kori

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 02:52 PM

Ted,

Could you please, if you care to, explain why you think the above quotes (one or the other) are a sentiment out of sethian gnosticism? I don't know much about it myself. I googled it and read a bit about it, briefly, and I don't think I really get the connection that you see.

====

Bob,

Direct, clear explanations sometimes require direct, clear questions.

Edited by Kori, 19 October 2010 - 02:54 PM.

"But if you do that you'll be missin' the world, because it doesn't stop turnin' whatever you heard."

#12 George H. Smith

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 03:05 PM




I don't get it.

Ba'al Chatzaf


First Kipling, now this? How can we help you, Bob?




With a direct clear explanation.

Ba'al Chatzaf



I'll relay the type of brilliant advice I received on my Physics Question thread: "If you want to join the team then you have to learn to play."

So, what you should do, Bob, is stop your life as it exists right now, and dedicate yourself to becoming a world-class creator in the arts. Instead of asking others about an issue outside of your area of expertise and beyond your understanding, you should invest your entire being into becoming a great artist, and after you've accomplished that, come back to this thread, rephrase your questions in a manner which we connoisseurs of the arts would prefer that you ask them, and maybe then we'll give you answers.

Best,
J


Revenge is indeed a dish best served cold.

Ghs

#13 Jonathan

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 03:16 PM

Revenge is indeed a dish best served cold.


Yes, it's surprisingly yummy served cold!

J

#14 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 03:31 PM

Kori,

That is a really beautiful sentiment.

I don't care where it came from.

I know it is in your heart, and that is all that matters.

Thank you very much for shining a bit through the mud...

Michael

Know thyself...


#15 Jerry Biggers

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 06:33 PM

Did I say "zero relevance" to topics OL readers might agree with....?

Oops! :blush: :blush:


Try this article :o on the close connection between Hurston and Rose Wilder Lane and Isabel Paterson!

http://www.independe..._04_4_beito.pdf

#16 Kori

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:51 PM

Michael and Selene,

Thank you for just enjoying the quote with me.
"But if you do that you'll be missin' the world, because it doesn't stop turnin' whatever you heard."

#17 Selene

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 09:12 PM

Michael and Selene,

Thank you for just enjoying the quote with me.


Kori:

You are very welcome. Sometimes we just fail to appreciate a beautiful thought sent with openness.

Adam
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#18 Ted Keer

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 09:21 PM

Ted,

Could you please, if you care to, explain why you think the above quotes (one or the other) are a sentiment out of sethian gnosticism? I don't know much about it myself. I googled it and read a bit about it, briefly, and I don't think I really get the connection that you see.

====

Bob,

Direct, clear explanations sometimes require direct, clear questions.


The Sethians held that man's true nature is light, and that Yahweh was a lesser flawed god who created matter and, clothing man in it, made him forget his higher nature. The lesser angels above would be the lower Aeons of the Sethians.

From http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Gnosticism

Such classical Gnostic movements as the Sethians conceived of the material world as being created by a lesser divinity than the true God that was the object of their devotion. The spiritual world is conceived of as being radically different from the material world, co-extensive with the true God, and the true home of certain enlightened members of humanity; thus, these systems were expressive of a feeling of acute alienation within the world, and their resultant aim was to allow the soul to escape the constraints presented by the physical realm.

Ćon
Main article: ĆonIn many Gnostic systems, the ćons are the various emanations of the superior God, who is also known by such names as the One, the Monad, Aion teleos (Greek: "The Complete Ćon"),[citation needed] Bythos(Greek: Βυθος, 'Depth' or 'profundity'), Proarkhe (Greek: προαρχη, "Before the Beginning'), E Arkhe (Greek: ἡ ἀρχή, 'The Beginning'), Ennoia (Greek: "Thought") of the Light[37] or Sige (Greek: Σιγη, "Silence").[38] From this first being, also an ćon, a series of different emanations occur, beginning in certain Gnostic texts with the hermaphroditic Barbelo,[13][39][40] from which successive pairs of aeons emanate, often in male-female pairings called syzygies;[41] the numbers of these pairings varied from text to text, though some identify their number as being thirty.[42] The aeons as a totality constitute thepleroma, the "region of light". The lowest regions of the pleroma are closest to the darkness; that is, the physical world.[citation needed]

Two of the most commonly paired ćons were Jesus and Sophia (Greek: "Wisdom"); the latter refers to Jesus as her 'consort' in A Valentinian Exposition.[43] Sophia, emanating without her partner, resulting in the production of the Demiurge (Greek: lit. "public builder"),[44] who is also referred to as Yaldabaoth and variations thereof in some Gnostic texts.[13] This creature is concealed outside the Pleroma;[13] in isolation, and thinking itself alone, it creates materiality and a host of co-actors, referred to as archons. The demiurge is responsible for the creation of mankind, by create he traps elements of the Pleroma stolen from Sophia in human bodies.[13][16] In response, the Godhead emanates two savior ćons, Christ and the Holy Spirit; Christ then embodies itself in the form of Jesus, in order to be able to teach man how to achievegnosis, by which they may return to the Pleroma.[8]





The phrase nowadays translated "forever and ever" comes from a Gnostic formula in the New Testament:


In saecula saeculorum
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThe Latin phrase in saecula saeculorum expresses the idea of eternity. It is biblical, taken from the Vulgate translation of the New Testament, rendering Greek εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων. The usual English translation is "for ever and ever", but in Ephesians 3:21, the KJV notably has "world without end". Neither translation is literal, as the time span invoked is not literally eternity but an aiōn in Greek, translated as saeculum in Latin, and elevated to "an aiōn of aiōna" or "a saeculum of saecula". The saeculum in Roman antiquity was the potential maximal human lifespan, or roughly a century. The original meaning ofaiōn was comparable, and it is so used in Homer and Hesiod. So, presumably a "century of centuries" or "an age of ages" would amount to "ten thousand years". Some alternative English translations aim at greater literality in their rendition of Ephesians 3:21: Young's Literal Translation and the Darby Translation have "of the age of the ages", Webster's Revision has "throughout all ages" while the New Living Translation has "through endless ages".

The phrase occurs twelve times in the Book of Revelation alone, and another seven times in epistles, but not in the gospels: Galatians 1:5, Ephesians 3:21, Philippians 4:20, 1 Timothy 1:17, 2 Timothy 4:18,Hebrews 13:21, 1 Peter 4:11, Revelation 1:18, 4:9, 10, 5:13, 7:12, 10:6, 11:15, 14:11, 15:7, 19:3, 20:10, 22:5.

It is taken up in medieval Christian liturgy, such as in the Tantum Ergo by Thomas Aquinas, in Veni Creator Spiritus, Gloria Patri and numerous other instances.

It does not occur in the Old Testament, which has other expressions for eternity, in Latin in aeternum et ultra "for eternity and beyond", rendering the Hebrew עד עולם, LXX εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα καὶ ἐπέκεινα, in English Bible translations usually also given as "for ever and ever".






Confession is always weakness. The grave soul keeps its own secrets, and takes its own punishment in silence.

#19 Kori

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 10:26 PM

Ted,

Thank you for the explanation. I don't know whether the author intended it, but it's an interesting connection to think about anyhow. I tend to take it in a more positive way, preferring not to think the author was implying anything negative about the material world. Actually, I tend to disregard the author's intentions and place my own meaning in the quotation.

Then again, I'm thinking about the changes Janie (the main character) goes through with each marriage. Her growth is sort of charted through her three marriages. Now I have to go back to where that quote is in the book (during which marriage? what events were going on at this time?) and sort of reevaluate.

Interesting!

Edit: I use the word 'tend' too much maybe? :rolleyes:

Edited by Kori, 19 October 2010 - 10:27 PM.

"But if you do that you'll be missin' the world, because it doesn't stop turnin' whatever you heard."

#20 Ted Keer

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 10:38 PM

Ted,

Thank you for the explanation. I don't know whether the author intended it, but it's an interesting connection to think about anyhow. I tend to take it in a more positive way, preferring not to think the author was implying anything negative about the material world. Actually, I tend to disregard the author's intentions and place my own meaning in the quotation.

Then again, I'm thinking about the changes Janie (the main character) goes through with each marriage. Her growth is sort of charted through her three marriages. Now I have to go back to where that quote is in the book (during which marriage? what events were going on at this time?) and sort of reevaluate.

Interesting!

Edit: I use the word 'tend' too much maybe? :rolleyes:


A work of art is judged on its sense of life and skill in execution, not literally. Rand's favorite painting was of Christ crucified. Gnostic ideas and symbolism permeate our culture.



Confession is always weakness. The grave soul keeps its own secrets, and takes its own punishment in silence.




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