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Peikoff on Alcoholics Anonymous


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#41 tmj

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 08:38 PM

Step 1 Stop
Step 2 Don't

Simple, not easy. However you manage it is up to you.

#42 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 10:08 PM

Step 1 Stop
Step 2 Don't

Simple, not easy. However you manage it is up to you.

 

Let's see if I got that right.

 

(Filtering through that SOB addict's brain inside me.)

 

Stop

 

Don't 

 

Hmmmm...

 

 

 

Stop

 

Hmmmm...

 

 

 

Don't 

 

Stop

 

Don't 

Stop

 

Hmmmm...

 

 

 

Don't stop

Don't stop

Don't stop

Don't stop

 

Hmmmm...

 

 

 

Don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop...

 

:)

 

Michael


Know thyself...


#43 tmj

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 08:08 AM

See now you messed up the order of the steps, big no no. And to be polite I left out the part about a life long self-deprivation of whatever pleasure one associates with intoxication. That's the real tricky part. :)



#44 Brant Gaede

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 10:08 AM

STOP!


Rational Individualist, Rational self-interest, Individual Rights--limited government libertarian heavily influenced by Objectivism


#45 tmj

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 10:39 AM

at the Tollhouse ?



#46 Selene

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 11:18 AM


"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#47 Brant Gaede

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 11:59 AM

$10 dollar!

 

--Brant

if you don't have Easy Pass


Rational Individualist, Rational self-interest, Individual Rights--limited government libertarian heavily influenced by Objectivism


#48 L W HALL

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Posted Today, 12:01 PM

Thanks for the explanations Michael, there are several pieces of useful information and a couple of analogies I can relate to in there -- ideas I've had on my mind but which needed confirmation from an external source.

 

Mirror neurons, higher and lower-brain conflict, 40:11,000,000 sensory inputs. To hear the science and research behind the topic is a lot more valuable than mysticism.

I don't mind AA, and even before I went in there I understood that group therapy, and not mysticism or procedure, was the effective element in such programs. My own group has a healthy subgroup of atheists who, while not Objectivists by any stretch, have an approach I can relate better to.

 

Anyway, once again, glad to see people here have similar experiences and that an effective program like AA is not dismissed outright -- that would have bothered me.

 

 

Moving from a mindset fermented in alcohol to one where we finally think of ourselves as non-users or even alcoholics who do not drink anymore is the paradigm shift necessary to stop and stay stopped in my opinion. I have heard many people claim to have experienced that shift within a very short time and perhaps to a degree that is true. However, I believe it takes a longer period of time for the real deep rooted changes to take place. Often these are accomplished in small increments that build one upon the other until major changes occur in our thinking and our reactions to the world around us. These changes are necessary because just removing the alcohol from the system is not enough to turn most alcoholics into sober people. If this were so we could get ourselves locked up a month or so and everything would be fine. The amount of relapses which occur with those trying to become sober or clean attest to the fact it is just not that easy for majority of people. 

 

The last thing I wish to do is to come off like I am bragging but I experienced the depths of alcohol abuse and the resultant destruction which it brought about in my life and have now experienced over 20 years without a drink. I was one of those who were able to recover by attending the rooms of AA and I do believe the program can work. I am not, however, a person who believes AA's way is the only way or maybe I would go so far to say it may not even be the best way. The trouble is while looking for the "best way" we can often wind up dead or with serious mental and physical ailments. Thus if you are in AA you have a decent chance of living a life free of addiction or at least the practice of that addiction. 

 

The way I look at AA is it is a program that can be molded to fit around most anyone. I do not prescribe to the Procrustean Method that often runs rampant in the rooms. In other words I don't think a person should be forced into a certain AA approach that someone else has found, which works for them, but rather I feel the steps should be used with the individual in mind. I often think the ego of some of AA's members override better judgment when working with other members. 

 

When I stopped smoking 10 years ago I was able to use the things I had learned while recovering from an alcoholic mind to put the cigarettes down and not pick them up again. 

 

I see no reason you cannot employ what you read here in these forums into your quest for sobriety. 

 

In borrowing from an old AA saying "Use what you can and leave the rest." You might find at a later time that you will revisit what you have left early on.

 

The very best of luck to you. 



#49 Brant Gaede

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Posted Today, 12:14 PM

I think addiction and getting beyond it in at least a practical way ultimately involves moral choices. One doesn't have to go to AA, but if it helps I say go right ahead. A drinking addiction can be handled by some atomistically, but that's usually the hardest way. I once knew a heroin addict who checked into a motel or hotel for a week and ended his use of heroin that way. And he stayed off it. I don't know the kind of withdrawal hell he went through or how he handled it. Various addictions seem to me to have various intensities. I smoked for maybe 5 years. Then I stopped. In those smoking years, however, not once did I wake up at night needing a drag. I know smokers who do.

 

--Brant


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