The best way to find out what a candidate stands for is to read detailed journalism about his positions, not go by out of context snippets on an Oist board. My understanding of Giuliani's positions from having read journalism --NYT, CSM, National Review, WSJ, etc -- is quite different from that of the other posters on this board....and, no, I don't want to debate it on the level of chat list back and forth one liners ... and cherry-picked, out of context quotes.
Just go do some reading and quote actual journalism in your posts instead of this "chat list" one liners style.
When you do that, you may find that Giuliani is not a "fascist", any more than the other Republicans running, any more than were other law and order and strong national defense conservative Republicans from Goldwater to Reagan.
Does that mean that an Objectivist would agree with all of their positions or find some of them violate individual rights? Well, what do you think?
Just to be clear: "fascist" is a term with a very precise historical meaning which involves the advocacy of a *totalitarian government* in which the government controls every significant area of life. It is a very extreme, smear term and I wouldn't want to debate anyone who is so careless as to use it for a mainstream candidate, whether the smear is coming from purported leftists or purported right-wingbers emulating their intellectual sloppiness.
And, no, just because you are posting on an informal discussion list, that is no excuse for not bringing your most precise and careful thiking.
Do not emulate Lindsay Perigo or Diana H. in their casual, offhand use of the most horrendous, foul smear terms for everyone who angers you or with whom you strongly disagree. I would have thought that observing the websites of those people would teach a lesson in bending over backwards to avoid imitation.
As Francisco said,
"You ought to learn that words have an exact meaning."
[msn encarta - fascism = any movement, ideology, or attitude that favors dictatorial government, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism]
Excellent post sir. "You ought to learn that words have an exact meaning." is one of my favorite Francisco quotes. As an original Goldwater person, I was infuriated with the "cutsey" slogan, "In your heart, you know he's right." and working the trenches in NY City in 1963, we left ourselves open to a very logical counter-attack which was "Yea, but in your mind/brain you know he's wrong."
Having lived through the Giuliani administration, I will state that he was effective and efficient in changing my city into a reasonably safe, clean and functioning city. My very smart Grandmother used to explain to me that Mussilini was also effective, he did "make the trains run on time", but she explained that that was not a sufficient trade for freedom.
Using "fascist" to describe Rudy is patently false. His "plan" for America is certainly not fascist. He does raise legitimate concerns as to where he would consider subordinating certain "individual" constitutional rights, but it does not even begin to rise to the level that the "Manachurian Candidate"
Hilarie Rodham Clinton would reach with her communist assumptions.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."