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Unfettered capitalism in the Middle East

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#1 william.scherk

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:16 PM

I think about my OL compatriots (and almost-compatriots, separated as we are by Homeland Security and old glories) even when trawling and reviewing my obsessions in the Middle East.

In a couple of posts I made reference to the business/capitalism/entrepreneur class that produced many of the Freedom and Justice Party candidates and honchos in Egypt, and wondered at the story I fished up about US-FJP discussions slopping over into "we are capitalists, too!" wonderlands.**

Still, as careful readers will have noted, libertarian ideas in one sector -- free economies (or a least a freeing of economic actors from state control and bureaucratic oversight) -- can come from the least-probable sector. Lots of the reform side of the FJP are of this stripe.

But, and most horrible but, the guy who will either be the next President of Egypt or a close contender is a 'free-market' capitalist of high achievement as well as the husband of an apparent ninja woman ...

If anyone can name him and picture his wife in the next ten minutes or so, I will donate several copies of Nietzsche translations for our Election Party.

Besides that rather startling news about crazed capitalist sharia-guy as Prez ... I came across a Syrian Randian. I kid you not. Only the brave will venture into this site as it is dense with opinion (like OL) and argument (like, um, not SOLO) and a single obsessive topic. But get a load of this quote from a man called Khalid on Walls حيطان as a tease for new readers:

“Crony capitalism” is an oxymoron. To advocate for a fettered market system is to advocate for a mixed economy and more of today’s problems. What we instead should be demanding is pure unfettered capitalism with the sole role of government being the protection of individual rights.


Posted Image

Link to full-size version of this photograph of Farjella, one the many sites in Syria's haunting 'Dead Cities' region.

____________

** The GOP Brotherhood of Egypt (Salon)

Demonized in the U.S. as radical terrorists, Egypt's Islamists are actually led by free-market businessmen

BY AVI ASHER-SCHAPIRO


Edited by william.scherk, 04 April 2012 - 08:26 PM.

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#2 Selene

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:33 PM

William:

Excellent. I just bookmarked the link.

I liked his statement that, "'crony capitalism' is capitalism like 'Christian[sic] science' is science."

Adam
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#3 william.scherk

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:31 PM

Times up. Here is him and her shots. Millionaire capitalist / Islamist, Khairat El Shater, and his possibly lovely wife, former engineer Azza Ahmad Tewfik, mother of eight girls and two boys.






Click that glamourous mug for more information on possible First Lady Azza.[left]

Edited by william.scherk, 04 April 2012 - 09:37 PM.

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#4 BaalChatzaf

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:06 AM

What is it about al Islam that changes perfectly normal human beings into Orcs?

Ba'al Chatzaf
אויב מיין באָבע האט בייצים זי וואָלט זיין מיין זיידע

#5 Infidel

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 01:35 PM

A few freemarket businessmen does not equate to freedom, especially when those very same businessmen push for Sharia. Islam is not against business. I see a rocket has been fired from Egypt into Israel http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-17620925 another sign of the new shift. Will these businessmen put an end to that? I don't think so. Despite their willingness to do business with outsiders, Islam is still the name of their game.

#6 Libertarian Muslim

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 04:35 PM

What is it about al Islam that changes perfectly normal human beings into Orcs?

Ba'al Chatzaf

What is it about Islam that changes secular non practicing Jews into blood thirsty internet trolls that begin salivating over their keyboard at even the slightest mention of Islam?

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#7 Selene

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 06:24 PM

Actually, Bob, it appears that the rocket was launched from the Sinai, which is basically a "free" zone of anything goes and is now run loosely by the Bedouins, who were kept in check by the Egyptian military, pre-Arab-spring.

Yes the same folks that brought you Lawrence of Arabia...




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#8 jts

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:48 PM

What is it about Islam that changes secular non practicing Jews into blood thirsty internet trolls that begin salivating over their keyboard at even the slightest mention of Islam?

On the subject of Islam. Craig Winn wrote a book titled "Prophet of Doom". It consists of passages from the Koran in chronological order, for each passage 5 of the most respected translations, and commentary from Craig Winn. The book is free of charge. You can read it in html form or in pdf form or you can listen to the audio version, all free of charge. The book, even minus Craig Winn's commentary, reveals Islam as evil.

This website has a huge amount of stuff, all free.
http://prophetofdoom.net/

Craig Winn says the most powerful thing that you can do to beat Islam is tell the truth about it. Perhaps that is why you risk getting death threats if you tell the truth about Islam. The truth about Islam is in the Koran. Perhaps Muslims should kill everyone who reads the Koran or encourages people to read the Koran.

In the infowar against Islam, this book is a nuke. It is Islam convicted by the prophet's own words.


Islam in Muhammad's Own Words
Prophet of Doom is the best-documented, most comprehensive, presentation of Islam's five oldest and most reliable scriptural sources. Ishaq's Biography of Muhammad, Tabari's History of Islam, and Bukhari's and Muslim's Hadith, were used to reorder the Qur'an chronologically and to set its surahs into the context of Muhammad's life. When this evidence is evaluated systematically, the only rational conclusion is that Islam's lone prophet was a ruthless terrorist, a mass-murderer, a thief, slave trader, rapist and pedophile.



#9 william.scherk

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:06 AM


What is it about Islam that changes secular non practicing Jews into blood thirsty internet trolls that begin salivating over their keyboard at even the slightest mention of Islam?

On the subject of Islam. Craig Winn wrote a book titled "Prophet of Doom". It consists of passages from the Koran in chronological order, for each passage 5 of the most respected translations, and commentary from Craig Winn. The book is free of charge.

[...]


The truth about Islam is in the Koran. Perhaps Muslims should kill everyone who reads the Koran or encourages people to read the Koran.






I see it does not take long for the hypnotic quality of stereotype to do its number on my first post.

I do feel a little bit like Phil, bemoaning my 'good points' ignored, sob sob, but I can state my concerns without whining and keening, perhaps.

The cartoon of Islam presented by the three worthy gentlemen here is evocative, and in a strange way, comforting. Without doing a lick of work in challenging and testing the assumptions underlying the stereotypes, cartoon notions allow us to slip into comforting old slippers of mental habit.

Infidel knows enough about Islam to know it is Evil. Same with Ba'al, and so, apparently with Jerry. And all LM needs to know about Ba'al is that he is The Jew.

What is the point remarking upon or discussing reality -- which is not an Orc, nor Muhammed, nor slavering Jews -- examining the reality of this man el-Shater and his chances of acquiring power? What is the point of remarking upon the details of his life, his character, his actions, his policies, and his competitors? What is the point of looking at Egypt and its relationship (security, above all) with the US, with the peace treaty, with war and Israel and the rest of the challenges of beginning the end of the authoritarian era?

As Phil might say it in rather more stagey, operatic screams and flounces, why do I raise such issues on OL?**

Since Jerry, Ba'al and Infidel already know the plot, the ending and the major events, no need to refer to reality -- or discuss it -- whatsover. As for our Libertarian Muslim, he happily draws on the oldest, sleaziest of caricature himself. From refuge of contempt and arrogance, the four creatures regard each other and test their ability to work some wisdom from complicated issues.

Fuck it. Fuck discussion.

Far better to simplify, cut a big slab of I Got The Truth cake, cite some Crank-of-the-third-class, step into those comfy slippers, and slop around a bit -- amongst ones prejudicies, ones set-pieces, ones pleasurable illusions of possession of knowledge and mastery.

___________

** while continuing to sob and keen, I should note that like Phil, I do take my voice and opinions and eyeballs to other forums. Phil has his classes in poetry at the local church, and I have my Syria Comment. I will think twice before sob sob hiccup, raising an issue here for Cartoonizing ... hiccup snivel.

Edited by william.scherk, 07 April 2012 - 01:24 AM.

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#10 Libertarian Muslim

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:03 AM



What is it about Islam that changes secular non practicing Jews into blood thirsty internet trolls that begin salivating over their keyboard at even the slightest mention of Islam?

On the subject of Islam. Craig Winn wrote a book titled "Prophet of Doom". It consists of passages from the Koran in chronological order, for each passage 5 of the most respected translations, and commentary from Craig Winn. The book is free of charge.

[...]


The truth about Islam is in the Koran. Perhaps Muslims should kill everyone who reads the Koran or encourages people to read the Koran.






I see it does not take long for the hypnotic quality of stereotype to do its number on my first post.

I do feel a little bit like Phil, bemoaning my 'good points' ignored, sob sob, but I can state my concerns without whining and keening, perhaps.

The cartoon of Islam presented by the three worthy gentlemen here is evocative, and in a strange way, comforting. Without doing a lick of work in challenging and testing the assumptions underlying the stereotypes, cartoon notions allow us to slip into comforting old slippers of mental habit.

Infidel knows enough about Islam to know it is Evil. Same with Ba'al, and so, apparently with Jerry. And all LM needs to know about Ba'al is that he is The Jew.

What is the point remarking upon or discussing reality -- which is not an Orc, nor Muhammed, nor slavering Jews -- examining the reality of this man el-Shater and his chances of acquiring power? What is the point of remarking upon the details of his life, his character, his actions, his policies, and his competitors? What is the point of looking at Egypt and its relationship (security, above all) with the US, with the peace treaty, with war and Israel and the rest of the challenges of beginning the end of the authoritarian era?

As Phil might say it in rather more stagey, operatic screams and flounces, why do I raise such issues on OL?**

Since Jerry, Ba'al and Infidel already know the plot, the ending and the major events, no need to refer to reality -- or discuss it -- whatsover. As for our Libertarian Muslim, he happily draws on the oldest, sleaziest of caricature himself. From refuge of contempt and arrogance, the four creatures regard each other and test their ability to work some wisdom from complicated issues.

Fuck it. Fuck discussion.

Far better to simplify, cut a big slab of I Got The Truth cake, cite some Crank-of-the-third-class, step into those comfy slippers, and slop around a bit -- amongst ones prejudicies, ones set-pieces, ones pleasurable illusions of possession of knowledge and mastery.

___________

** while continuing to sob and keen, I should note that like Phil, I do take my voice and opinions and eyeballs to other forums. Phil has his classes in poetry at the local church, and I have my Syria Comment. I will think twice before sob sob hiccup, raising an issue here for Cartoonizing ... hiccup snivel.

By my comments I was merely pointing out how ridiculous the notion that someone's religion makes them a monster. Does being a Jew make you a troll? No.. Does being a secular non practicing Jew make you a troll? No..

Neither Judaism nor Islam make a monster, one's nafs do.

#11 william.scherk

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 09:33 PM

More Orcs:


The rise of Islamic capitalism

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#12 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:31 PM

William,

I see the good in what you are posting. I am pleased to see capitalism being discussed openly in the Islamic culture and I see it as a good thing.


LM,

Nafs... what an interesting concept...

You may not like my interest, though. I'm studying mind control and the "role self" people adopt in destructive cults as opposed to their "authentic self." I'm not saying Islam is a destructive cult. I am absolutely sure it is not as practiced by the majority, although I do believe certain practitioners take it there just like others do with almost any religion. When bad spirits use Islam for brainwashing followers so they will do evil things, I have no doubt the idea of nafs is involved as a main leverage concept. I intend to think on this some and do some reading. btw - If you are interested in getting a glimpse of what I am looking at, here's a great lecture by Steve Hassan.

You might be interested in this because Steve has done a great deal with helping people in their problems with Scientology and The Nation of Islam has recently joined forces with this cult. See here where, in August 2010, Louis Farrakhan introduced his congregation to Scientology, set up Scientology studies and shilled for it with the full authority of his position. After all I have studied and knowing where this will end up, it was very painful for me to watch. A lot of good people are going to get hurt (it takes time for the bad stuff to start because of the length of time of the studies). The young lady in this video, which I just now stumbled across, doesn't speak refined English, but she has far, far more sense than Farrakhan showed.

(Maybe the best order, if you decide to watch the videos, is start with Farrakhan, see the young lady's video, then see Steve's.)

Anyway, thanks for the nafs reference.

Michael

Know thyself...


#13 Infidel

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:16 AM

Mustafa Akyol: "However, if capitalism merely means an economic system of private property, free enterprise and free markets, then there would be nothing “un-Islamic” about it"

There would be, however, if it was extended to Infidels. This is not my opinion, it is Islamic law.

#14 Selene

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:17 AM

FYI:

Nafs is an Arabic word (cognate of the Hebrew word "Nefesh" נפש ) which occurs in the Qur'an and means self, psyche,[1] ego or soul. In its unrefined state, "the ego (nafs) is the lowest dimension of man's inward existence, his animal and satanic nature."[2] Nafs is an important concept in the Islamic tradition, especially within Sufism and the discipline of gnosis (Irfan) in Shia Islam. Nafs means inner self - the evil side of your soul. It varies for every person. Tradition states it is a little black spot on the area where the person's heart is and it is mentioned in the hadith that the prophet Muhammad had this spot removed. Nafs is the evil/good form of the soul, basically there's a good side and a bad side. (Islamic definition)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafs


Imam Shafi'i said, may God have mercy on him: "Only the sincere one (mukhlis) knows hypocrisy (riya')." This means that it is impossible to know the reality of hypocrisy and see its hidden shades except for one who resolutely seeks (arada) sincerity. That one strives for a long time (yajtahidu azmanan) searching and meditating and examining at length within himself until he knows or knows something of what hypocrisy is. This does not happen for everyone. Indeed, this happens only with the special ones (al-khawass). But for a given individual to claim that he knows what hypocrisy is, this is real ignorance on his part.
http://www.spiritualfoundation.net/nafs.htm#97711596
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#15 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:43 PM

Adam,

The interesting part of this nafs concept is the premise of original sin--that your self (your soul) has a side to it that is contaminated by evil. It comes out of the box that way. Then, as you grow, you receive instructions that there is an ideal soul (called a "higher level" nafs or whatever) that you should strive to attain. You didn't come up with that ideal--others taught it to you. So this is not an ideal that comes from within you. It comes from without.

In other words, one is a self and the other is a role--like an actor plays--a role that you must learn thoroughly and then use it to replace the self that is deemed defective and partially rotten. They call this a different level, and it can be, but it can also be a difference in kind, not degree. It all depends on how you do it.

From what I can discern so far, the sincerity that is valued in this process is the point to which you are willing to renounce the you that came out of the box and mold yourself into the you that others are teaching you to become.

This, to me, is a potential booby trap--one that Christianity shares. (And so many other organizations--including things like multilevel marketing.)

If you take this going up levels procedure in order to improve skills, survival choices, empathy, balancing long-term thinking against short-term thinking, even your personal relationship with God (if you believe in Him) like with prayer and so forth, I'm all for it.

This is going from a state of not knowing to a state of knowing. Or going from a state of random emotions and urges to a state of understanding and discipline. In other words, adapting your animal side to your rational side as your rational faculty matures. (I'm not talking about the standards that you chose with your rational faculty or how rational others judge them to be, but the fact that you choose them to begin with to bring an order to your urges and emotions that you control. Going from a reactive will to an active one is another way of putting it.)

But if you consider yourself--the one who came out of the box--as disgusting, which is what you should if you are sincere about condemning evil and you accept--way down in your core--that you are inherently evil and need to be replaced, you become soft clay for a cult manipulator to mold into whatever he wishes.

From what I have seen so far, the majority of Muslims interpret submitting to Allah (and consequently going up the nafs levels) in the sense of learning good from evil, trying to live according to the good, deepening their love of Allah and so forth. But some in Islam use submission as a brainwashing technique to replace the personality of a victim with one programmed to execute the brainwasher's will.

And that is evil, irrespective of who does it.

Michael

Know thyself...


#16 Selene

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:52 PM

Michael:

It seems that almost all the religions approach the physical drives that accompany life, at birth, as "sinful," rather than just drives to feed oneself, procreate etc, with no "moral imprimaturs"

As you noted above, the mindset that would take this biological fact and import a sense of anti-self esteem into a child is truly sick.

But if you consider yourself--the one who came out of the box--as disgusting, which is what you should if you are sincere about condemning evil and you accept--way down in your core--that you are inherently evil and need to be replaced, you become soft clay for a cult manipulator to mold into whatever he wishes.


Doesn't this call into suspicion the value of a God, or Gods, who being all powerful, would create, in their image, entities that, "out of the box" and evil at the core?

The entire imposition of "Original Sin" never made sense to me because it would posit, for example, in Catholic teachings, an all powerful, all knowing God that would create defective creatures. Made no sense.

Adam
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#17 Libertarian Muslim

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:32 PM

Hmmm Michael, there are no nafs levels and there is no original sin in Islam.

Your nafs are simply your desires, we all have desires as people. Sometimes we want to do things which are not good for us or which may hurt others, and so we either give in to those desires and temptations, or we decide against it because we believe it is the wrong thing to do.. That is the struggle against one's nafs, and as a whole is the greatest form of Jihad.

#18 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:41 PM

LM,

I was going on the nafs levels in the Wikipedia article you linked to.

I presumed that since you linked to it, you were in agreement with it, so I used it as a basis for working out some thoughts.

I will try to learn more about the nafs concept before using it in my train of thought.

Michael

Know thyself...


#19 Libertarian Muslim

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:14 PM

LM,

I was going on the nafs levels in the Wikipedia article you linked to.

I presumed that since you linked to it, you were in agreement with it, so I used it as a basis for working out some thoughts.

I will try to learn more about the nafs concept before using it in my train of thought.

Michael

Sorry Michael, I thought you meant that it was levels like that in scientology.

#20 Infidel

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:12 AM

"What is the point remarking upon or discussing reality -- which is not an Orc, nor Muhammed, nor slavering Jews -- examining the reality of this man el-Shater and his chances of acquiring power?"

The brotherhood have just put up a second candidate in case his terrorist past rules him out. Whether or not he acquires power is of little consequence when he wants to implement Sharia just as much as the rest of them. Islam is the aim, not liberty.

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood puts up second candidate
(AFP)–2 days ago
CAIRO — The Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt's top political force, announced it was putting up a second presidential candidate for May elections in case its first choice was not allowed to stand.
The candidature of the Islamist group's number two, Khairat al-Shater, looked to be in doubt. Shater was freed from prison in March 2011 after having been jailed by a military court for seven years on charges of terrorism and money laundering.
The Muslim Brotherhood, whose Freedom and Justice Party won the most seats in parliamentary elections earlier this year, said it was putting forward party chairman Mohammed Morsi as an "alternative candidate."
Separately, earlier Saturday, the electoral commission said that Salafist politician Hazem Abu Ismail would probably be disqualified from running because his late mother was a US citizen.
In response to what it called a "massacre" of Islamist candidates, the ultra-conservative Gamaa Islamiya announced that it was nominating hardliner Safwat Hegazy to stand, the official news agency MENA reported.
The first round of the election is due to take place on May 23 and 24.
Copyright © 2012 AFP. All rights reserved.More »





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