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What do we think of the idea of Alien Visitors on Earth? (I.E. them little gray fella's)


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#1 J.S. McGowan

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 02:41 PM

Just curious as to what people think about all the alien conspiracies. I find them fun to explore and I often have to slap myself out off believing them. (Whitely Strieber's Communion book had me sleeping with the light on :tongue: )
I also love reading all those ancient alien intervention books like Eric von Daniken's books and Iv read the Lost Book of Enki by Sitchin. I read them more as science fiction.
Has Ayn Rand ever said anything about alien visitation?

any one here who believes?

#2 Bryce

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 03:35 PM

David Icke and reptoids are all you need to know.





I loved the X-Files and blackvault.com as a kid but it doesn't interest or enthuse me now. Even Ancient Aliens is boring. But I believe the universe is so massive that alien life must exist. And that's not counting what life has been or will be. I think we are separated by proximity but we are not alone.

#3 BaalChatzaf

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 03:40 PM

I seriously doubt that our planet has been visited by alien intelligence. The aliens have the same constraints that we do. Life-span and light speed. The stars are much too far apart to lead to visits.

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אויב מיין באָבע האט בייצים זי וואָלט זיין מיין זיידע

#4 daunce lynam

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 04:05 PM

I seriously doubt that our planet has been visited by alien intelligence. The aliens have the same constraints that we do. Life-span and light speed. The stars are much too far apart to lead to visits.

Ba'al Chatzaf


Plausible-- but what about that old rumour about Donald Rumsfeld? It was never satisfactorily refuted.

#5 Reidy

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 04:43 PM

I think the ones in the inner circle at ARI and the ones who greenlight movie projects are doing a poor job.

#6 Michael E. Marotta

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 04:59 PM

Ain't no doubt. I met Dr. David Michael Jacobs at a dinner party hosted by my professor of sociology, Dr. Ronald Mark Westrum.

David Jacobs was working on his doctorate and proposed studying UFOs as a modern experience. He was not a believer in any way at that point. He just proposed a topic in modern history. It was denied by his committee. Later, he followed it all up on his own and the deeper he delved, the more convinced he became. This is right out of the X-Files and you can see the conflict in popular culture between pro-alien propaganda such as The Day the Earth Stood Still versus The Thing and ET and Star Trek versus Independence Day and V. Note that the US Army gave its material support to the latter in each pair, but not the former. If the purpose of the armed forces is to protect against invasion...

Ron Westrum's specialities focus on complex organizations, including both cockpit crews and surgical operating room teams. He is best know in the mainstream for his study of the Sidewinder Missile. Your typical left-liberal sociologist, Westrum was less than sanguine about weapons development within the military-industrial complex. The subject was recommended to him by a student. He looked into it and was sold. His book was published by the Naval Institute Press of Annapolis, Maryland in 1999. He was the Scientist Guest of Honor at a scifi con in Ann Arbor for his research into alien abductions.

We all know WKRP in "Cincinnati." I really liked on episode where Venus Flytrap confronted some homies from the hood. To underscore the importance in education, he drew an atom on a blackboard.
"I ain't never seen no atom. How do I know they're real?"
"You ever been to Africa? ... Do you think it's real?"

Plus... just look at so-called "evolution" -- way too many gaps... The Universe did not have a Creator, but Earth probably did...

Good guys? Bad guys? Different guys at different times? Who knows? .... But clearly, this island Earth is not alone among the stars. One thing, though, you know... we might really scare them more than they scare us....

That Imperial Earth logo... you think that came from the fertile imagination of Gene Roddenberry?



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#7 jts

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 07:57 PM

Jesse Ventura did a conspiracy theory show about Area 51. The verdict was that the military has some very advanced technology that most of the world does not know.

#8 BaalChatzaf

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:26 PM

I have little subjective doubt that the galaxy is full of intelligent life living on planets going around other stars. But that are much too far away for us to get to them. At best we might pick up a message that is most likely not naturally produced and has some mathematical structure. Then we can know pretty much for sure there are other intelligent species or -were- other intelligent species. But we are not likely to have sit down with them and break bread and at interstellar distances two way conversations are a virtual impossibility. We may look, we may even listen but we will not touch.

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#9 studiodekadent

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 09:17 AM

Alien sentient life is certainly plausible. I haven't seen sufficient evidence of it, but I won't throw such claims out.

Also, governments aren't trustworthy generally, so I think at least some conspiracy theories may have at least some merit at times.
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#10 Jerry Biggers

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 05:24 PM

David Icke and reptoids are all you need to know.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Eaaubr3nnHI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



I loved the X-Files and blackvault.com as a kid but it doesn't interest or enthuse me now. Even Ancient Aliens is boring. But I believe the universe is so massive that alien life must exist. And that's not counting what life has been or will be. I think we are separated by proximity but we are not alone.

Uh-huh,...so who doubts that some of the leftist celebrities act like snakes? Of course, Icke thinks THEY are E.T. reptilians. He should be using his imaginative talents in Hollywood. He'll find a lot of snakes (or reptoids, or whatever) there tooo.

#11 Jerry Biggers

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 06:01 PM

I seriously doubt that our planet has been visited by alien intelligence. The aliens have the same constraints that we do. Life-span and light speed. The stars are much too far apart to lead to visits.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Based on my non-physicist (or astronomer, or any other "hard" science, for that matter) background, which is to say, my opinion.
I would agree with Baal's statement. Most astronomers have stated that the problem with any interstellar travel is that the distances are too far between star systems to make travel feasible. Even at the speed of light, travel to other systems is far too long for humans to endure.

Despite Star Trek fantasies (which I love), warp speed is not only unobtainable, it is impossible according to Einstein's physics If it ever could be done, the physics needed would overthrow Einstein and change everything we know about the universe.

But, putting aside quibbles from the scientific community, why would they choose this system and this planet, in what is an "unfashionable outer arm of our galaxy," to paraphrase The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.? As to UFO sightings, abductions, whatever, even The Fortean Times, a magazine which routinely gives credance to every possible (or impossible) challenge to modern science, had an editorial, (a number of years ago,I don't have the issue at hand) where they pointed-out that all the alleged UFO sightings have been reported for over fifty years and there has been no reliable photographic evidence - all the one's offered are blurry, fuzzy, and cannot prove anything.

#12 Jerry Biggers

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 06:14 PM

Jesse Ventura did a conspiracy theory show about Area 51. The verdict was that the military has some very advanced technology that most of the world does not know.

Maybe they do, but so what? I don't want to engage in an ad hominem argument here, so I would advise just listening to his method of thinking, as displayed on his program, leaves a lot to be desired. He leaves out any information that would question his authority, makes unwarranted assumptions, implies his critics have ulterior motives, and his use of logic is, well, horrendous.

His show is sometimes interesting but if he's going to make wild claims, then he needs a team of better researchers to back him up.

#13 Jerry Biggers

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 07:39 PM

Just curious as to what people think about all the alien conspiracies. I find them fun to explore and I often have to slap myself out off believing them. (Whitely Strieber's Communion book had me sleeping with the light on :tongue: )
I also love reading all those ancient alien intervention books like Eric von Daniken's books and Iv read the Lost Book of Enki by Sitchin. I read them more as science fiction.
Has Ayn Rand ever said anything about alien visitation?

any one here who believes?

"...any one here who believes?" I don't know. "We" don't have a loyalty test on what is, or is not allowed, other than common sense, respect for others' opinions or their right to believe whatever they want, and manners.

I had read (I don't recall the source, I think it was the Washington Post) that Howard Blum's Out There was a respectable presentation and review of all the evidence for and against UFOs, alien visitation, etc. So, I thought, "Cool. A book on the subject by a respected journalist (I shouldn't have made that assumption, either.) And what did I find? Well, among other things, he believes in some far-out ESP ideas, such as "remote viewing" ("Well, the CIA allegedly employed some alleged psychics who claimed that they could penetrate Soviet defenses by just thinking about it, and find out all kinds of secrets, didn't they?" Yes, they did. The CIA, with some well-deserved embarrassment, cancelled the project.This whole story says more about the CIA's judgment than the psychics, who, not surprisingly, found out shit.

And it's not that Blum discusses this subject out of the blue, but that he is laying the groundwork for what method he is going to use throughout the book. - he presents it as if logic and evidence mean nothing to him. So much for his method of thinking. After reading that account, I doubted that he could discuss UFOs in a rational manner. He did not, but pick up the book and judge for yourself.

Whitley Streiber is, if anything, worse than Blum. No one has ever been able to validate any of Streiber's story (or stories), regarding alien visitations, UFOs, etc. This has not been a problem for Streiber, he has sold many books even though they are pure fantasy. He may however, be a good writer and is apparently able to capture the reader's attention. Great - if he presented it as science fiction. He does not. I believe the subtitle to his "Communion," on the cover says, "A true story" or words to that effect.

Now as for Ayn Rand. I do not recall any statement by her on this subject, except for one incident when she was hospitalized and was given a drug that could cause visual hallucinations. She told a visitor that she saw a flying saucer outside her hspital window. When told that it was the drug, she became quite angry, as she did not want to believe that she was ever not in full control of her mental faculties, even after being given a drug. This account is discussed in Anne C. Heller's biography of Rand, and has been mentioned elsewhere.

#14 Ellen Stuttle

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 08:51 PM

Now as for Ayn Rand. I do not recall any statement by her on this subject, except for one incident when she was hospitalized and was given a drug that could cause visual hallucinations. She told a visitor that she saw a flying saucer outside her hspital window. When told that it was the drug, she became quite angry, as she did not want to believe that she was ever not in full control of her mental faculties, even after being given a drug. This account is discussed in Anne C. Heller's biography of Rand, and has been mentioned elsewhere.


That conflates two stories from two widely separated time frames. The first didn't involve a drug (unless the suggestion was made that Rand's amphetamine use was implicated). According to Heller -- I think this was told to her by Ruth Beebee Hill -- Rand calmly said to a visitor (Hill?) to the ranch in California that she'd seen a UFO one night.

The incident when Rand was hospitalized was when she had the operation for lung cancer in early 1975. Apparently she thought the IV stand was a tree outside the hospital window, and when it was pointed out to her that the room was too high and there wasn't a tree outside it, became angered at people -- especially Joan Blumenthal -- trying to tell her she'd hallucinated.

I can't provide page numbers to these accounts just now. A lot of moving books around while making some new bookshelves in process here and my AR bios are in a hard-to-access pile.

Ellen

#15 daunce lynam

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 09:10 PM

Now as for Ayn Rand. I do not recall any statement by her on this subject, except for one incident when she was hospitalized and was given a drug that could cause visual hallucinations. She told a visitor that she saw a flying saucer outside her hspital window. When told that it was the drug, she became quite angry, as she did not want to believe that she was ever not in full control of her mental faculties, even after being given a drug. This account is discussed in Anne C. Heller's biography of Rand, and has been mentioned elsewhere.


That conflates two stories from two widely separated time frames. The first didn't involve a drug (unless the suggestion was made that Rand's amphetamine use was implicated). According to Heller -- I think this was told to her by Ruth Beebee Hill -- Rand calmly said to a visitor (Hill?) to the ranch in California that she'd seen a UFO one night.

The incident when Rand was hospitalized was when she had the operation for lung cancer in early 1975. Apparently she thought the IV stand was a tree outside the hospital window, and when it was pointed out to her that the room was too high and there wasn't a tree outside it, became angered at people -- especially Joan Blumenthal -- trying to tell her she'd hallucinated.

I can't provide page numbers to these accounts just now. A lot of moving books around while making some new bookshelves in process here and my AR bios are in a hard-to-access pile.

Ellen


Ellen, you are an invaluable source and insight on this and so many other aspects of the Randian world.

What puzzles me is how a mind who understood trompe l-oeil and optical illusion and hallucination, could believe itself immune from these normal reactions of the mind to the appropriate stimuli.

#16 Brant Gaede

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:38 PM


Now as for Ayn Rand. I do not recall any statement by her on this subject, except for one incident when she was hospitalized and was given a drug that could cause visual hallucinations. She told a visitor that she saw a flying saucer outside her hspital window. When told that it was the drug, she became quite angry, as she did not want to believe that she was ever not in full control of her mental faculties, even after being given a drug. This account is discussed in Anne C. Heller's biography of Rand, and has been mentioned elsewhere.


That conflates two stories from two widely separated time frames. The first didn't involve a drug (unless the suggestion was made that Rand's amphetamine use was implicated). According to Heller -- I think this was told to her by Ruth Beebee Hill -- Rand calmly said to a visitor (Hill?) to the ranch in California that she'd seen a UFO one night.

The incident when Rand was hospitalized was when she had the operation for lung cancer in early 1975. Apparently she thought the IV stand was a tree outside the hospital window, and when it was pointed out to her that the room was too high and there wasn't a tree outside it, became angered at people -- especially Joan Blumenthal -- trying to tell her she'd hallucinated.

I can't provide page numbers to these accounts just now. A lot of moving books around while making some new bookshelves in process here and my AR bios are in a hard-to-access pile.

Ellen


Ellen, you are an invaluable source and insight on this and so many other aspects of the Randian world.

What puzzles me is how a mind who understood trompe l-oeil and optical illusion and hallucination, could believe itself immune from these normal reactions of the mind to the appropriate stimuli.

I think she was frightened. Her body subject to drastic surgery, not home with Frank, her mind confused with drugs. Instead of saying so, a can of worms to her, she got angry, anger being a rejection of her situation if not blowing people off.

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#17 Michael E. Marotta

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 12:32 AM

... sort of like a chess problem: from the sublime to the ridiculous in eight moves...

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#18 J.S. McGowan

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 03:57 AM

wow, Ayn Rand saw a flying saucer... that's something I never expected to hear...

#19 PDS

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 09:16 AM

... sort of like a chess problem: from the sublime to the ridiculous in eight moves...


Okay, now that was pretty hilarious.

#20 Jerry Biggers

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 09:36 AM

Now as for Ayn Rand. I do not recall any statement by her on this subject, except for one incident when she was hospitalized and was given a drug that could cause visual hallucinations. She told a visitor that she saw a flying saucer outside her hspital window. When told that it was the drug, she became quite angry, as she did not want to believe that she was ever not in full control of her mental faculties, even after being given a drug. This account is discussed in Anne C. Heller's biography of Rand, and has been mentioned elsewhere.


That conflates two stories from two widely separated time frames. The first didn't involve a drug (unless the suggestion was made that Rand's amphetamine use was implicated). According to Heller -- I think this was told to her by Ruth Beebee Hill -- Rand calmly said to a visitor (Hill?) to the ranch in California that she'd seen a UFO one night.

The incident when Rand was hospitalized was when she had the operation for lung cancer in early 1975. Apparently she thought the IV stand was a tree outside the hospital window, and when it was pointed out to her that the room was too high and there wasn't a tree outside it, became angered at people -- especially Joan Blumenthal -- trying to tell her she'd hallucinated.

I can't provide page numbers to these accounts just now. A lot of moving books around while making some new bookshelves in process here and my AR bios are in a hard-to-access pile.

Ellen

Ellen,
Thank you! You are correct, two incidents mentioned in the Heller biography, that occured in diffeent time frames and were not related to each other.

Except, that Rand's reaction in both cases, when her recollection of these events were questioned, was similar. To the first, the incident where she claimed to have seen a UFO (her term, according to Ruth Beebe Hill, as reported to Heller [pp. 233-234]. Rand did not call it a 'flying saucer'"). She apparently insisted that she had seen the object, as she described.
Heller adds (p. 234) "The story seems to demonstrate her confidence in the ability of her mind to interpret the evidence of her senses. As the years went by, this particular confidence would not always serve her well."

The other incident, when she was hospitalized for cancer treatment, (Heller, p 392) referred to her interpretation of what she claimed to have seen, a tree branch outside her window: she was astonished that a tree could reach nine stories high.
Joan Blumenthal looked out the window and realized that what Rand was really seeing was relection of her IV pole. Reportedly, Rand "flew into a rage,...she remained furious for months" accusing Joan of attempting to undermine her sense of rationality.




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