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Defamation on Solo


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#41 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:58 PM

Kyle,

 

Sorry. I misunderstood you.

 

Your comparison of my thoughts is interesting. I didn't think to align them that way. Kinda cool, actually...

 

But they do mean different things.

 

By heart, I meant specifically feeling kindness toward weak people and even toward the weaker side of human nature, like cutting friends some slack when they mess up. (Maurone, if he reads this, knows exactly what I mean.) There are limits and contexts, of course, but just as presuming innocence until proven guilty is a default attitude for fairness, I believe in kindness as a default for enjoying good human relationships.

 

It's not very Objectivist, in fact, some frown on it in our subculture, but I find compassion to be a value. Neuroscience and psychology are already showing evidence that it is a healthy habit to cultivate.

 

In other words, it's very selfish to do that. And you tend to live longer.

 

Rand's point in her anti-altruism campaign is a good one, though. Don't let manipulators pollute your ethics with their sweet poison version of it.

 

btw - I'll get to your puppy parable in a day or two at the max.

 

Michael


Know thyself...


#42 Kyle Jacob Biodrowski

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:13 PM

Benevolence is not very Objectivist? I'm going to have a hard time believing that.

 

Those Objectivists who look down on kindness are likely still associating kindness with altruism. The two should be firmly divorced.


"I’ve been waiting for awhile to meet you. For the chance to shake your hand. To give you thanks for all the suffering you command." - STP

 

"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)


#43 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:25 PM

Kyle,

 

Heh.

 

Hang around O-Land for a while. You won't believe some of the boneheaded stuff that comes up--all preached in the name of Ayn Rand and reason.

 

(There's good stuff and good people, too, of course. But I'm in an ornery mood for some reason. :) )

 

Michael


Know thyself...


#44 whYNOT

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:05 AM

Benevolence is not very Objectivist? I'm going to have a hard time believing that.
 
Those Objectivists who look down on kindness are likely still associating kindness with altruism. The two should be firmly divorced.


NOW you're talkin'!
Altruism has played with people's heads for so long it's screwed up compassion
and kindness. It made a doctrine out of our better instincts.
Objectivists should and can (and often do) reclaim them as part of the selfish pleasure of living.
"To know that we know what we know, and to know that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge". Nicolaus Copernicus (An original objectivist) 1473-1543 ***No man may be smaller than his philosophy...***

#45 BaalChatzaf

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:31 AM

 

Benevolence is not very Objectivist? I'm going to have a hard time believing that.
 
Those Objectivists who look down on kindness are likely still associating kindness with altruism. The two should be firmly divorced.


NOW you're talkin'!
Altruism has played with people's heads for so long it's screwed up compassion
and kindness. It made a doctrine out of our better instincts.
Objectivists should and can (and often do) reclaim them as part of the selfish pleasure of living.

 

Amen!  

 

R. Hillel used to say :

 

 

If I am not for myself,  then who is for me

 

And if I am only for myself what am I?

And if not now, then when

 

All of which has to do with what I should be doing.

You can't get much more egotistical than that.

 

Ba'al Chatzaf 


אויב מיין באָבע האט בייצים זי וואָלט זיין מיין זיידע

#46 Xray

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:29 PM

And its Principal is Mad King Ludwig of Bavaria, except with far inferior musical taste

 

Ludwig II of Bavaria is called "Mad King" in English? That hits the nail on the head of course!

Mad King Ludwig used to squander the money of his Bavarian subjects to build his 'fairy tale castles' Neuschwanstein, Linderhof and Herrenchiemsee. Ironically, these castles today have become a veritable bonanza for the Bavaria state because they attract visitors from all over the world.  :smile:



#47 PDS

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:50 PM

Re: this Doug fellow, who seems to enjoy stomping and thrashing around over on SOLO.   I looked at his profile and it says that he has been an Objectivist for "about 6 years." 

 

Pretty much explains everything.   Most people have underwear older than that...



#48 daunce lynam

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:32 PM

And its Principal is Mad King Ludwig of Bavaria, except with far inferior musical taste

 
Ludwig II of Bavaria is called "Mad King" in English? That hits the nail on the head of course!
Mad King Ludwig used to squander the money of his Bavarian subjects to build his 'fairy tale castles' Neuschwanstein, Linderhof and Herrenchiemsee. Ironically, these castles today have become a veritable bonanza for the Bavaria state because they attract visitors from all over the world.  :smile:
 
 



If Solo and OL are preserved for the edification of future Net generations, the Swamp will still attract a lot more visitors than the Trough, except for thirsty dogs.It will have water slides and a Fountain of Reason featuring a statue of King Michael the Patient and his beauteous consort.

#49 Ellen Stuttle

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:33 PM


Re: this Doug fellow, who seems to enjoy stomping and thrashing around over on SOLO. I looked at his profile and it says that he has been an Objectivist for "about 6 years."

Pretty much explains everything. Most people have underwear older than that...


I don't understand the comment. Are you suggesting that Doug's behavior and opinions result from Early-O'ist Syndrome, to coin a term? Or the opposite, that longer acquaintance with Objectivism could provide an antidote? Or?

IIRC, Doug has talked in earlier threads about his being involved, prior to his learning about Objectivism, with groups and venues where his views are popular.

I hadn't looked at SOLO in months, not since a bit after Darren Wrede was ejected. Darren did manage to provoke a lot of debate I found interesting about evolution. There's a fairly new thread (begun Nov. 27, 2012) which might also be of interest on evolution issues, started by Richard Goode, "Rand vs. Dawkins," http://www.solopassion.com/node/9473

I have the Dawkins book The Greatest Show on Earth amongst my Dawkins collection but haven't done more than glance through that one. I sure don't like Dawkins' approach in the first chapter, as quoted by Richard Goode, and agree that it uses intimidatory tactics.

Ellen

PS: For some reason, the date and time information isn't showing on my posts with the new software. It didn't on one I posted yesterday and, judging from the preview screen, isn't showing on this one. I can't figure out why. The information shows on the "reply" screen.

#50 PDS

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:36 PM

 


Re: this Doug fellow, who seems to enjoy stomping and thrashing around over on SOLO. I looked at his profile and it says that he has been an Objectivist for "about 6 years."

Pretty much explains everything. Most people have underwear older than that...


I don't understand the comment. Are you suggesting that Doug's behavior and opinions result from Early-O'ist Syndrome, to coin a term? Or the opposite, that longer acquaintance with Objectivism could provide an antidote? Or?

IIRC, Doug has talked in earlier threads about his being involved, prior to his learning about Objectivism, with groups and venues where his views are popular.

I hadn't looked at SOLO in months, not since a bit after Darren Wrede was ejected. Darren did manage to provoke a lot of debate I found interesting about evolution. There's a fairly new thread (begun Nov. 27, 2012) which might also be of interest on evolution issues, started by Richard Goode, "Rand vs. Dawkins," http://www.solopassion.com/node/9473

I have the Dawkins book The Greatest Show on Earth amongst my Dawkins collection but haven't done more than glance through that one. I sure don't like Dawkins' approach in the first chapter, as quoted by Richard Goode, and agree that it uses intimidatory tactics.

Ellen

PS: For some reason, the date and time information isn't showing on my posts with the new software. It didn't on one I posted yesterday and, judging from the preview screen, isn't showing on this one. I can't figure out why. The information shows on the "reply" screen.

 

 

Early O'ist Syndrome.   

 

By way of analogy, it takes roughly five years to become a black belt in karate in most traditional systems.   That assumes about 5 hours of training per week, on average, and another hour or two of self-study.    A black belt, contrary to conventional wisdom, merely signifies mastery of the fundamentals, or basics.   Mastery of the subtleties takes many more years. 

 

Objectivism is far more demanding than most forms of karate.  And, as most martial artists have learned at one point or another, the most dangerous person in the dojo is the person who thinks he is a black belt and is not.    

 

Doug yells a lot but he ain't no black belt.  



#51 Ellen Stuttle

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:48 PM

David, Thanks for the explication (next above). My feeling about Doug's current postings is that he's reverted to pre-O'ism-contact ways of acting. For instance, there was a stretch when he was very polite to, even deferential to, Leonid, whom he's now castigating as a "lemming." Seems to me that Doug has gotten the steam up over some current news stories and has become impatient with O'ists not heeding his BEWARE message. That's just an impression based on a small sample of Doug's posts from an old thread on which I was posting as contrasted to now. Prior to that "Rand and Darwin" thread, or whatever its exact title was, Doug had posted a lot of stuff which I never read, so I'm only seeing a couple slices of the history. Ellen

#52 Ellen Stuttle

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:50 PM

The post above was supposed to have paragraph breaks. I don't understand the new software. Ellen

#53 daunce lynam

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:25 PM

David, Thanks for the explication (next above). My feeling about Doug's current postings is that he's reverted to pre-O'ism-contact ways of acting. For instance, there was a stretch when he was very polite to, even deferential to, Leonid, whom he's now castigating as a "lemming." Seems to me that Doug has gotten the steam up over some current news stories and has become impatient with O'ists not heeding his BEWARE message. That's just an impression based on a small sample of Doug's posts from an old thread on which I was posting as contrasted to now. Prior to that "Rand and Darwin" thread, or whatever its exact title was, Doug had posted a lot of stuff which I never read, so I'm only seeing a couple slices of the history. Ellen

Ellen, thanks for the background here..I think I know some of the places D has come from and it is interesting to know that any of those people would become interested  in Osites per se.. reason is not their strong suit.

 

PS Had a chance to read Mmarch yet? I have had a bad Trollope binge recent;y, I am getting worse.

 

Carol



#54 Brant Gaede

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:16 PM

 

By way of analogy, it takes roughly five years to become a black belt in karate in most traditional systems.   That assumes about 5 hours of training per week, on average, and another hour or two of self-study.    A black belt, contrary to conventional wisdom, merely signifies mastery of the fundamentals, or basics.   Mastery of the subtleties takes many more years. 

 

Objectivism is far more demanding than most forms of karate.  And, as most martial artists have learned at one point or another, the most dangerous person in the dojo is the person who thinks he is a black belt and is not.    

 

Doug yells a lot but he ain't no black belt.  

 

 

Objectivism is reason applied to reality. Objectivism, the philosophy of Ayn Rand, is another kettle of fish. If you wish to master that, good luck; even Leonard Peikoff fell short. Nathaniel Branden came the closest.

 

--Brant


Rational Individualist, Rational self-interest, Individual Rights--limited government libertarian heavily influenced by Objectivism


#55 Ellen Stuttle

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:52 PM

PS Had a chance to read Mmarch yet?

I read the first few chapters of MMarch a couple months ago, but haven't had time to get further. I'm hoping I'll have the chance to snuggle up and concentrate on reading the whole thing in January or February. Ellen






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