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Terry Gilliam's Brazil


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#1 J.S. McGowan

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 01:54 PM

Has anyone seen the movie Brazil? I really enjoyed it. But it had a pretty morbid plot and I dont quite know what moral it is trying to impart. id like to know what other people think of it.

#2 Selene

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:10 PM

Has anyone seen the movie Brazil? I really enjoyed it. But it had a pretty morbid plot and I dont quite know what moral it is trying to impart. id like to know what other people think of it.


Jacob:

Yes. I have. Very weird sci. fi. movie with heavy satire.

You are lucky though because Michael, one of the owners of this forum lived in Brazil for a lot of years and knows the country well and I am sure he has seen the movie also.

Adam
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#3 BaalChatzaf

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:11 PM

Has anyone seen the movie Brazil? I really enjoyed it. But it had a pretty morbid plot and I dont quite know what moral it is trying to impart. id like to know what other people think of it.


-Brazil- is what -1984- would have been if Orwell had a sense of humor.

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#4 BaalChatzaf

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:13 PM


Has anyone seen the movie Brazil? I really enjoyed it. But it had a pretty morbid plot and I dont quite know what moral it is trying to impart. id like to know what other people think of it.


Jacob:

Yes. I have. Very weird sci. fi. movie with heavy satire.

You are lucky though because Michael, one of the owners of this forum lived in Brazil for a lot of years and knows the country well and I am sure he has seen the movie also.

Adam


The only thing Brazil about -Brazil- was the song Brazil used as a theme song throughout the motion picture.

Ba'al Chatzaf
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#5 J.S. McGowan

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:54 AM

Am I wrong in saying that Ayn Rand didnt like 1984... do you think she also would not have liked Brazil?
they are both very similar in plot: but in 1984 Winston at the end comes to love Big Brother whereas Sam Lowry ends up going insane (so he doesnt really compremise his values...)

#6 Selene

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:01 AM

Am I wrong in saying that Ayn Rand didnt like 1984... do you think she also would not have liked Brazil?
they are both very similar in plot: but in 1984 Winston at the end comes to love Big Brother whereas Sam Lowry ends up going insane (so he doesnt really compremise his values...)


Jacob:

Don't worry about validation of your point of view. Between you me and the proverbial wall, Ayn's judgment on art, music etc., frankly sucked.

Adam
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#7 J.S. McGowan

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:19 AM

im just curious as to what ayn rand would have thought of Brazil. Plus i do think that plots should ultimately have some moral value. and im wondering whether the fact that sam lowry ultimately went crazy rather than give up his values gives Brazil value in the eyes of the Objectivist philosophy. I think it does...
Im reading We the Living at the moment and doesnt its main characters/ heroes die in the end? doesnt that contradict ayn rand usual plot premise? (I cant say to much on the topic as i have not finished the book yet :P )

#8 Selene

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:22 AM

im just curious as to what ayn rand would have thought of Brazil. Plus i do think that plots should ultimately have some moral value. and im wondering whether the fact that sam lowry ultimately went crazy rather than give up his values gives Brazil value in the eyes of the Objectivist philosophy. I think it does...
Im reading We the Living at the moment and doesnt its main characters/ heroes die in the end? doesnt that contradict ayn rand usual plot premise? (I cant say to much on the topic as i have not finished the book yet :tongue: )


Jacob:

Understand that this was her first major novel. She was developing her ideas. No comment on the plot and the ending. Enjoy. Read Anthem also. It is available on line.

If you cannot access it, I will e-mail it to you.

Adam
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#9 J.S. McGowan

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:54 AM

I have read anthem and I enjoyed it alot. especially the anthem part :)

#10 George H. Smith

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:11 AM

Jeff Riggenbach hasn't posted on OL for a long time, but I just sent him an email about this thread in the hope that he will write some comments about Brazil. He is a big fan of the movie, and I recall a conversation many years ago in which he had some very interesting things to say about it.

#11 J.S. McGowan

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:20 AM

Jeff Riggenbach hasn't posted on OL for a long time, but I just sent him an email about this thread in the hope that he will write some comments about Brazil. He is a big fan of the movie, and I recall a conversation many years ago in which he had some very interesting things to say about it.

cool id be interested to hear :)

#12 Reidy

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 01:20 PM

I've never heard of Rand herself saying anything about 1984 (though she took a dim view of Animal Farm in one of her published letters). Branden in Who is Ayn Rand? and Peikoff in a podcast point out that Orwell depicts a regime that is at once totalitarian and very advanced and capable technologically; this is squarely at odds with Randian thinking, and history has shown that she was right and Orwell was wrong.

#13 J.S. McGowan

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:17 PM

I've never heard of Rand herself saying anything about 1984 (though she took a dim view of Animal Farm in one of her published letters). Branden in Who is Ayn Rand? and Peikoff in a podcast point out that Orwell depicts a regime that is at once totalitarian and very advanced and capable technologically; this is squarely at odds with Randian thinking, and history has shown that she was right and Orwell was wrong.


yes thats the opinion on 1984 that i heard.. it was one of Peikoffs Podcasts. I remember now :)
but can the regime in 1984 be regarded as advanced and technologically capable? in the book the regime was barely able to maintain adequate lifestyles for its people. the majority live in abject poverty and the party members live on pathetic rations. I think the fault of the book is that it gives too much psychological power to the "Big Brother" regime. I don't think any totalitarian dictatorship could maintain the level of fanaticism that is in 1984. i think people would become distant and impartial and hence the regime would have no grounding in the public mind and would collapse.

#14 Reidy

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:48 PM

The regime can't produce abundance (or at least isn't willing to grant it), but it can produce advanced technology. Perhaps the anomaly you point out comes from Orwell's own failure to think things through.

One theory is that the book is actually a satire of the postwar Labourite England in which it was written and that the economic conditions in the story take off from the austerity and rationing that prevailed at the time. Similarly, I suspect that the shortages, petty corruptions and falling living standards in the early chapters of Atlas Shrugged were a depiction of the wartime America in which Rand started to write it.




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