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The Many Errors Inherent in Central Planning


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#21 dennislmay

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:04 AM

I disagree with the premise that "many active so-called libertarians are socialists in libertarian clothing."

There seems to be two kinds of socialists in the libertarian movement:

Naive socialists - people so wrapped up in socialist culture that they have a difficult time thinking outside the
socialist bubble. They drag along a great deal of socialist baggage during discussions of what they think are
libertarian discussions. This is the larger group of the two. As soon as the going gets tough in discussions
they revert to socialist thinking. Some can be reasoned with to some degree but many cannot recognize
the danger of their constant reversions. [On the other hand I am often accused of being the opposite and not
holding basic libertarian ideals either].

The second group is the one of real concern. Socialist activists acting as libertarians. The percentage varies
from one discussion group to another, one group of writers to another, and among libertarian groups. They
are hired or self planted internal saboteurs. Anti-war protest/anti-nuclear/environmental groups are full of foreign
hired and socialist group hired and paid for influence peddlers - those tenticles branch into libertarian groups
when libertarians work with socialist groups in common cause. Not a pretty thing and libertarians seems to have
a naive streak about the issue. Put it this way - when I was in the Air Force we got security briefings about
foreign spies. Those briefings only concerned conventional full time spies working directly for foreign governments
directly seeking military secrets. Basically every city with any military base or military contractors had foreign spies.
The more interesting and larger numbers are when you talk about economic spies [estimated at 3,500 full time from
China alone], plants in the media in the hundreds, plants in politics - at least dozens at any given time, and so forth.
Unelected government bureaucrats - likely huge numbers. Only estimates but you can be sure that there
are many pretend libertarians in the mix.

Dennis

#22 studiodekadent

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:23 AM

Dennis,

Please clarify for me; are you alleging that libertarians with a strong anti-war focus are socialists pretending to be libertarians?
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#23 dennislmay

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:36 AM

Dennis, Please clarify for me; are you alleging that libertarians with a strong anti-war focus are socialists pretending to be libertarians?

In that case there would be 3 types:

Libertarians who have a strong anti-war focus and aren't socialists.

Naive socialist libertarians who have a stong anti-war focus - think they are libertarians but hold many socialist positions.

Bought and paid for or self actualized socialists using libertarians as useful idiots in their Anti-war [may or may not be pro-foreign power] campaigns. The core and organizers of such movements generally have foreign source money and support or the support of big money socialists with such ties.

Dennis

#24 studiodekadent

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:53 AM

Dennis, Please clarify for me; are you alleging that libertarians with a strong anti-war focus are socialists pretending to be libertarians?

In that case there would be 3 types:

Libertarians who have a strong anti-war focus and aren't socialists.

Naive socialist libertarians who have a stong anti-war focus - think they are libertarians but hold many socialist positions.

Bought and paid for or self actualized socialists using libertarians as useful idiots in their Anti-war [may or may not be pro-foreign power] campaigns. The core and organizers of such movements generally have foreign source money and support or the support of big money socialists with such ties.

Dennis


Thank you for the clarification. As an anti-war, noninterventionist libertarian myself, I'm glad you weren't intending to allege I was a socialist.
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#25 dennislmay

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:14 AM

Dennis, Please clarify for me; are you alleging that libertarians with a strong anti-war focus are socialists pretending to be libertarians?

In that case there would be 3 types: Libertarians who have a strong anti-war focus and aren't socialists. Naive socialist libertarians who have a stong anti-war focus - think they are libertarians but hold many socialist positions. Bought and paid for or self actualized socialists using libertarians as useful idiots in their Anti-war [may or may not be pro-foreign power] campaigns. The core and organizers of such movements generally have foreign source money and support or the support of big money socialists with such ties. Dennis

Thank you for the clarification. As an anti-war, noninterventionist libertarian myself, I'm glad you weren't intending to allege I was a socialist.

In discussions with Debbie Clark on Atlantis_II [she has been into the anti-war protests for a long time] she discussed how it does seem like the leadership of the anti-war protests are largely communists.

The primary reason I am concerned about mixing with socialists is the blurring of vision and muddling the waters concerning any possible libertarian message. I am unable to distinquish any clear libertarian vision on many issues due to the strong socialist influence [and other problems] within groups that call themselves libertarian of one kind or another. As a result I would not call myself a libertarian of any type but would find it necessary to create a new term. I have not decided what would be a good name.

Dennis

#26 BaalChatzaf

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:57 AM



The primary reason I am concerned about mixing with socialists is the blurring of vision and muddling the waters concerning any possible libertarian message. I am unable to distinquish any clear libertarian vision on many issues due to the strong socialist influence [and other problems] within groups that call themselves libertarian of one kind or another. As a result I would not call myself a libertarian of any type but would find it necessary to create a new term. I have not decided what would be a good name.

Dennis


You might use the term I have reserved for myself --- pain in the ass. Like the kid who reminds the Emperor that he is bare-ass.

Ba'al Chatzaf
אויב מיין באָבע האט בייצים זי וואָלט זיין מיין זיידע

#27 dennislmay

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:23 AM

The primary reason I am concerned about mixing with socialists is the blurring of vision and muddling the waters concerning any possible libertarian message. I am unable to distinquish any clear libertarian vision on many issues due to the strong socialist influence [and other problems] within groups that call themselves libertarian of one kind or another. As a result I would not call myself a libertarian of any type but would find it necessary to create a new term. I have not decided what would be a good name. Dennis

You might use the term I have reserved for myself --- pain in the ass. Like the kid who reminds the Emperor that he is bare-ass. Ba'al Chatzaf

Perhaps I could be the pain in the "pain in the ass" indicating the "pain in the ass" is being watched as well :-)

Dennis




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