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Hazard is back after 2 long years (or so)


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#21 Bob_Mac

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:14 PM

I took to Objectivism right away. But over the years I have found that there are some differences in what I believe about the world and what Rand does, which leads me to my predicament.

As you know, Rand holds the opinion that men own the power to conquer adversity and shape the world.


The problem is that your chances of being a world-shaper are miniscule. This is not an insult, just a simple fact based on probability. A better (more likely) career "choice" would be to plan to win the lottery. But assuming you're "the one", being really really good at something is a still very much a necessary, but not sufficient, prerequisite. Either way, you gotta put in serious time to get good at something. And if you don't have the magic combo of skill, luck, timing and whatever else, you still end up good at something and therefore most likely still have a realistic chance of lesser successes. To "buy the ticket" or "take a swing" at being a world shaper, you must have skill.

Now, you can find something you really love and hope people will pay you for doing it, or you can find something other people thing you're good at and are willing to pay for it, then learn to love or at least like or tolerate it. THis is not selling out. The world owes you nothing. You want wealth? People pay for something they like, want or need. In a service economy "like" is more and more important.

My chronic physical pain keeps me from doing the things that I am most passionate about. Let me give some background.
.....

I despised High School, so much that I almost dropped out 2 months before I graduated


Wanna know what an employer thinks if they know this?

Impulsive, entitled, unreliable whiner - stay away. That's what they think. Are your ailments legit? They don't care. They care what you can do for THEM. If you work hard, get good at what you do, you can expect a certain amount of loyalty from an employer, but that's very limited. But if you're good and you provide great service, someone else will almost always be willing to pay you. You don't have a privileged position to start from. This means you have to start small. Tough.

Doing a great job (even if its a crappy job), plus self-inprovement is usually the best way to a better job - within or external to your current employer. Pity, or especially self-pity is useless.

Sometimes this isn't enough, and you have to fail and learn a few times. The world ain't fair.

I suggest you don't become an Objerktivist. Take the few limited nuggets of wisdom and run. Otherwise you'll have all the "true" and "proper" justification of how great you are while pondering the deep philosophical implications of poverty and homelessness.

Bob

#22 whYNOT

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 10:26 AM

Mike M, As a former Christian, I have taken interest in philosophy because it has helped me form a standard by which I live my life. I believe that men can be moral without divine instruction and I believe that philosophy and reason are the ways to accomplish this.


Jordan,

I like this, the thought and the expression. Exactly states my earliest thoughts on religion-free morality.
I'd suggest not being side-tracked by either the angry nay-sayers or by those literalist O'ists - both of whom probably have had difficulty transposing Rand's idealized characters into their own lives, and react with bitterness, or confusion and self-alienation..
But avoiding that trap, her basic ideas are solid and true: a lot of living and observing has convinced me of that.

The final arbiter is you - in your case an unnecessary reminder, I'm sure.

Best of luck.


Tony
"To know that we know what we know, and to know that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge". Nicolaus Copernicus (An original objectivist) 1473-1543 ***No man may be smaller than his philosophy...***

#23 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 02:49 PM

Jordan,

I just did a long thing on forgiveness, so now I can get to the mission stuff I started talking about a few days ago.

Let me just say right now that since I have done some work on this for a bigger project, I will be unfolding my comments according a learning system called the 4Mat outline: Why? What? How? and What If?

I already did the "why" part. (I probably could have done more, but this is a discussion forum, so I think it's often good to work through these things in a rough form.)

I will be having a "what" coming up soon.

So I haven't forgotten about you.

Stay tuned.

(btw - After that, I will share some thoughts I have on free will.)

Michael

Know thyself...


#24 daunce lynam

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:01 PM




The problem is that your chances of being a world-shaper are miniscule.
-No. They might be minuscule though......

"I despised High School, so much that I almost dropped out 2 months before I graduated"

Wanna know what an employer thinks if they know this?

Impulsive, entitled, unreliable whiner - stay away. That's what they think.

Bob


Why do you think Jordan would tell an employer this? He was talking to Michael, whom he had asked for advice, not going for a job interview. He finished high school with good grades

Jordan has not told us what he is studying at college, or what he would rather be studying or doing instead. At his age it is not uncommon to still be looking for your own combination of passion, skill and marketability in the workplace.

#25 Selene

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:05 PM





The problem is that your chances of being a world-shaper are miniscule.
-No. They might be minuscule though......

"I despised High School, so much that I almost dropped out 2 months before I graduated"

Wanna know what an employer thinks if they know this?

Impulsive, entitled, unreliable whiner - stay away. That's what they think.

Bob


Why do you think Jordan would tell an employer this? He was talking to Michael, whom he had asked for advice, not going for a job interview. He finished high school with good grades

Jordan has not told us what he is studying at college, or what he would rather be studying or doing instead. At his age it is not uncommon to still be looking for your own combination of passion, skill and marketability in the workplace.


Carol:

Unfortunately, and this is what the Face Book generation has still not absorbed, this is all in the public domain.

Adam
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#26 Selene

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:55 PM

Carol:

Not only prospective employees, but schools search the internet for any data that they can acquire before investing in an individual.

in terms of divorce, electronic discovery is an extremely fertile area and reasonably less costly than other forms of discovery.

In terms of disability, workers compensation cases, the internet is searched.

A recent 2006 case illustrated this problem:

Previous Case Involving the Threat of Social Networking Information

A survey by CareerBuilder.com found that one in four hiring managers used search engines to screen candidates. One in ten also
checked candidates' profiles on social networking sites such as MySpace or Facebook‛ (Lupsa). This is precisely what happened to an unsuspecting Louisiana State University student while interviewing for a job in 2006. He was a member of Facebook for over two years and maintained an ‚all-inclusive‛ online profile with pictures, quotes, and more. While interviewing for internship positions, he followed the advice of his mother as well as school advisors choosing to make his profile ‚private,‛ so only his friends could see his information; or so he thought. Surprisingly, this security measure was not enough to protect his information from discovery.

During the interview, something he was not prepared for happened. The interviewer began asking specific questions about the content on his Facebook.com listing and the situation became very awkward and uncomfortable. The student had thought that only those he allowed to access his profile would be able to do so. The interviewer explained that as a state agency, recruiters accessed his Facebook account under the auspices of the Patriot Act (LSUS Career Services).
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#27 daunce lynam

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 10:10 PM

Adam,

There was an interesting twist on this here recently.

Our firebreathing Conservative govt wants to breach internet privacy on the grounds that "only pedophiles have something to hide" (Vic Toews, Justice Minister). Whereupon someone published the public records of Vic Toews's divorce including details of his infidelities and love child.

Patriot Act indeed.

#28 Hazard

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 11:08 PM

Everyone,

Thank you for the responses, I am absolutely slammed at the moment with work and school and I will make a well-thought out response just as soon as I can.

Also, My real name isn't tied to this account so I don't think there is any possibility that what I say here could get me disqualified for a job.

Anyway, in a few days when things slow down I will take some time to respond to you all,


Thanks,
Jordan

#29 Selene

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 02:46 PM

Guess what!

"If you think privacy settings on your Facebook and Twitter accounts guarantee future employers or schools can't see your private posts, guess again.

Employers and colleges find the treasure-trove of personal information hiding behind password-protected accounts and privacy walls just too tempting, and some are demanding full access from job applicants and student athletes.

In Maryland, job seekers applying to the state's Department of Corrections have been asked during interviews to log into their accounts and let an interviewer watch while the potential employee clicks through wall posts, friends, photos and anything else that might be found behind the privacy wall.

Previously, applicants were asked to surrender their user name and password, but a complaint from the ACLU stopped that practice last year. While submitting to a Facebook review is voluntary, virtually all applicants agree to it out of a desire to score well in the interview, according Maryland ACLU legislative director Melissa Coretz Goemann."
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#30 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:59 AM

I haven't had time to write up my thoughts on mission, yet, but here's a TED talk I found eerily effective by a dude named Larry Smith. The talk is called "Why you will fail to have a great career."

The guy is funny, sort of. He is up-tight, sort-of. He is liberating, sort-of.

His oddness makes some of his points really sticky in your mind.



Great challenge at the end.

This is a "right question" talk, not a "right answer" one.

And we need that at times.

It's well worth watching.

Michael

Know thyself...


#31 Selene

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:43 AM

Guess what!

"If you think privacy settings on your Facebook and Twitter accounts guarantee future employers or schools can't see your private posts, guess again.

Employers and colleges find the treasure-trove of personal information hiding behind password-protected accounts and privacy walls just too tempting, and some are demanding full access from job applicants and student athletes.

In Maryland, job seekers applying to the state's Department of Corrections have been asked during interviews to log into their accounts and let an interviewer watch while the potential employee clicks through wall posts, friends, photos and anything else that might be found behind the privacy wall.

Previously, applicants were asked to surrender their user name and password, but a complaint from the ACLU stopped that practice last year. While submitting to a Facebook review is voluntary, virtually all applicants agree to it out of a desire to score well in the interview, according Maryland ACLU legislative director Melissa Coretz Goemann."


This is a "hot" issue:

Why are some employers asking workers and would-be workers for their Facebook passwords?

Because, with U.S. unemployment hovering at 8.3%****, they can.

"Unfortunately, in these economic times employers may exercise latitude in asking for the unreasonable," career coach Sandra Lamb said in an email. "But employees (and applicants) should be steadfast in asserting their rights to their personal life. If your FaceBook or other social media website password is requested (or required) that goes beyond a red flag--it's a deal breaker."


http://www.readwrite...book_passwo.php

****This is a government statistic and should be treated as a manipulated lie.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#32 Selene

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:21 AM

More on this rapidly spreading privacy problem:

In their efforts to vet applicants, some companies and government agencies are going beyond merely glancing at a person's social networking profiles and instead asking to log in as the user to have a look around.

"It's akin to requiring someone's house keys," said Orin Kerr, a George Washington University law professor and former federal prosecutor who calls it "an egregious privacy violation."

Questions have been raised about the legality of the practice, which is also the focus of proposed legislation in Illinois and Maryland that would forbid public agencies from asking for access to social networks.

Since the rise of social networking, it has become common for managers to review publicly[sic] available Facebook profiles, Twitter accounts and other sites to learn more about job candidates. But many users, especially on Facebook, have their profiles set to private, making them available only to selected people or certain networks.

Companies that don't ask for passwords have taken other steps — such as asking applicants to friend human resource managers or to log in to a company computer during an interview. Once employed, some workers have been required to sign non-disparagement agreements that ban them from talking negatively about an employer on social media.

Asking for a candidate's password is more prevalent among public agencies, especially those seeking to fill law enforcement positions such as police officers or 911 dispatchers.


http://www.startribu.../143455776.html
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice..and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

#33 Robert Campbell

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:47 PM

I'm not sure if the expression "living a stylized life" came from her, but I have seen this used in several places in O-Land. That's her art premise applied to life.


Michael,

The phrase "stylized life" shows up in Ayn Rand's diaries from 1967-1968, in which she complains about Nathaniel Branden's failure to live in such a way.

Whether it was Rand's idea or somebody else's, the phrase had been current for some time in her Inner Circle.

Fits right in with Anne Heller's title: Ayn Rand and the World She Made....

Robert Campbell

#34 Selene

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:01 AM

Proposed laws would ban public agencies from asking for Facebook profile passwords from would-be employees applying for jobs.
Lawmakers in Illinois and Maryland are considering whether the intrusive practice should be allowed during the job selection process.
Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1plPtSSwv
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#35 Jerry Biggers

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:24 PM



Ayn Rand said:

"If you want my advice, Peter," he said at last, "you've made a mistake already. By asking me. By asking anyone. Never ask people. Not about your work. Don't you know what you want? How can you stand it, not to know?"


Worst. Advice. Ever.

First of all - hello Jordan. Glad to see you back. I look forward to your contributions to OL!

Back to "Worst advice. Ever" (re: Roark's comment to Peter Keating, in Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead). In the context of the novel, where Rand was presenting aspects of Roark's and Keating's character (also note Keating's advice to Roark in this exchange), it fits right in.

I would like to think that Rand is attempting to build Roark as an "ideal type," and is not suggesting his comments as a code of behavior for others to emulate. I would like to think that, but - viewing the totality of her writings, she probably is suggesting precisely what she has Roark stating in this passage. It is surely consonant, for example, with her estimate of her own character as being the living personification of the heroes of Atlas Shrugged (see the "About the Author" note at the end of Atlas Shrugged.).

However, in my opinion, most people would not be able to agree with the unquestioning self-confidence in their own judgment about career choices or about consulting other people as expressed by Roark in the sentences quoted.

But, anyway, I can think of a lot of "career" advice that is worse than Roark's... How about this?:

Mark 10:21-25

New International Version (NIV)

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”
24 The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is[a] to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

Edited by Jerry Biggers, 22 March 2012 - 09:47 AM.


#36 Hazard

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:37 AM

Hey everyone,
I've been away for a while, very busy, but things have improved significantly for me.
First off, I think the winter did quite a number on my spirits. So now that that is over I'm doing quite better. I got accepted to a technical college with a good scholarship and will be going there for Math.

So things are looking up,

-Jordan

#37 Dglgmut

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:57 PM



Ayn Rand said:

"If you want my advice, Peter," he said at last, "you've made a mistake already. By asking me. By asking anyone. Never ask people. Not about your work. Don't you know what you want? How can you stand it, not to know?"


Worst. Advice. Ever.


All she meant was you don't need other people's opinion on how you should live your own life... How is that bad advice? She viewed one's work, and said so through Roark to Wynand, as the purpose of their life. It's their effect on the world, and it should be a personal decision, as it's their life.

It's like asking, "What do you think would make me happy?" It's obvious how stupid a question that would be to ask.

#38 Bob_Mac

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:15 AM

"Never ask people. Not about your work."

Work, not life.




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